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2010-07-16 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
chayes - 2010-07-16 8:22 AM Thanks again for this thread.  It really has changed my mind.  I guess I've always raced distances that I can run the whole way, and figured there's no sense in walking if I can run.  And I thought of walk/running as something my couch-to-5k friends do.  But I'm not a fast runner at all and I'm really intrigued by this.  I'd also discounted marathons as a possibility unless I lose 20 lbs but reading this makes me wonder if I could really do it.
Also worth noting that the negative comments are from people who have never used this method.  I think most methods (barefoot running, TI swimming, whatever) you'll have people who've done it and loved and and people who've done it and hated it.  It's just amazing that everyone who's done this is faster for it. 


"Everyone" isn't...I've run/walked and run and I'm faster running.  And the people I'm competing with (AG and O/A) aren't walking, trust me.  I've just been trying to stay out of this thread because I always regret posting when this subject comes up.

You're just not getting responses from "everyone"...in part, frankly, because these threads pretty much always play out the same way and tend to shut down...or at the very least distort...contrary points of view.  And because, as Scout and Bryan have articulated pretty well, run/walk is a perfectly good training technique (and a perfectly good racing technique for someone who is up against the limits of their conditioning with a given distance) and no one (least of all me) is going to argue that specific point.  But, as Bryan (IIRC) said, the issue of whether run/walking is the fastest way to cover a distance is a separate thread from one about the merits of building run fitness through "Gallowalking".

Edited by tcovert 2010-07-16 1:25 PM


2010-07-16 1:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
tcovert - 2010-07-16 11:24 AM  And because, as Scout and Bryan have articulated pretty well, run/walk is a perfectly good training technique (and a perfectly good racing technique for someone who is up against the limits of their conditioning with a given distance) and no one (least of all me) is going to argue that specific point.  But, as Bryan (IIRC) said, the issue of whether run/walking is the fastest way to cover a distance is a separate thread from one about the merits of building run fitness through "Gallowalking".


That's an important point.  If I could maintain 30mpw I'm pretty sure I would be faster and wouldn't need to insert walk breaks.  But at less than 25mpw level the run/walk works for me with little to no difference in overall time for anything over 10k.  I will say it has likely delayed my ability to learn proper pacing but working with a metronome seems to be helping with that. 
2010-07-16 2:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
SauseEnte - I agree, in terms of pacing. But what about the "recovery effect" that the walking breaks have for muscles and joints? The mechanics of walking are different than running. The stress impact is different. Several posters here have mentioned how this method has kept their injuries at bay and allowed them to train at all. I have no problem running steady for 90 minutes at a slow pace yet my legs feel a lot better if I build in walk breaks.


I agree with you.  I've experienced the exact same thing.

Run/walking, based on my experiences, seems to go beyond simple pacing, also including this "recovery effect" which I think can probably help most MOP and BOP athletes preform better with less risk of injury.
2010-07-16 2:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
Some folks here on BT claim that run/walk only works for folks slower than xxx which may be true for them but I know that fast folks do run/walk. My coach I used last year works with lots of folks who are fast and are trying to Kona qualify. I think last year 5 or 6 of his athletes went to Kona. He has all this athletes do run/walk even ones that run sub 3:30 IM Marys. They may only run/walk 2 miles run/60"walk where I do 1 mile/60" but he makes all his athletes do walk breaks. He won his AG at IM Brazil this year and even KQed in his first IM. His wife won her AG at IM Brazil and her IM Mary was 3:15.

Walking lowers your HR, uses different muscles, and helps clear lactic acid plus it is an ideal time to get in calories.

Everyone is free to train and race how they please.





2010-07-16 3:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
For longer events I stop at the water stations every 2 or more miles and drink up and walk and I don't have any problems getting good times on the run.

However, I did the run/walk every mile when I trained for a marathon 5 years ago and it killed my pace for some reason.  So, I modified.
2010-07-16 4:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
tcovert - 2010-07-16 12:24 PM
chayes - 2010-07-16 8:22 AM Thanks again for this thread.  It really has changed my mind.  I guess I've always raced distances that I can run the whole way, and figured there's no sense in walking if I can run.  And I thought of walk/running as something my couch-to-5k friends do.  But I'm not a fast runner at all and I'm really intrigued by this.  I'd also discounted marathons as a possibility unless I lose 20 lbs but reading this makes me wonder if I could really do it.
Also worth noting that the negative comments are from people who have never used this method.  I think most methods (barefoot running, TI swimming, whatever) you'll have people who've done it and loved and and people who've done it and hated it.  It's just amazing that everyone who's done this is faster for it. 


"Everyone" isn't...I've run/walked and run and I'm faster running.  And the people I'm competing with (AG and O/A) aren't walking, trust me.  I've just been trying to stay out of this thread because I always regret posting when this subject comes up.

You're just not getting responses from "everyone"...in part, frankly, because these threads pretty much always play out the same way and tend to shut down...or at the very least distort...contrary points of view.  And because, as Scout and Bryan have articulated pretty well, run/walk is a perfectly good training technique (and a perfectly good racing technique for someone who is up against the limits of their conditioning with a given distance) and no one (least of all me) is going to argue that specific point.  But, as Bryan (IIRC) said, the issue of whether run/walking is the fastest way to cover a distance is a separate thread from one about the merits of building run fitness through "Gallowalking".


X2


2010-07-16 5:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
I'm not going to argue in this thread, I'll just say the day someone wins an open marathon or posts the fastest Ironman run split using this protocol will be the day I adopt it. Until then you know where I stand...or rather run..
2010-07-16 7:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
Good thread! I have enjoyed reading your responses...I guess I feel that I have a better chance competing longer and faster if I use this in some form a couple of times a week. I can run more often and farther with less pain in my "many times injured" knee. That's why I came to triathlon. Running great distances was impossible without lots of pain, so if this is a benefit to me, I'll try it at least! THank you for the insight!
2010-07-16 8:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
bryancd - 2010-07-16 3:15 PM I'm not going to argue in this thread, I'll just say the day someone wins an open marathon or posts the fastest Ironman run split using this protocol will be the day I adopt it. Until then you know where I stand...or rather run..


Well... these results aren't too bad.  :-)

"I [Hal Higdon] once ran a 2:29 marathon, walking through every aid station. My son Kevin ran 2:18 and qualified for the Olympic Trials employing a similar strategy. And Bill Rodgers took four brief breaks (tying a shoe on one of them) while running 2:09 and winning the 1975 Boston Marathon. Walking gives your body a chance to rest, and you'll be able to continue running more comfortably. It's best to walk when you want to, not when your (fatigued) body forces you too."

http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00novice.htm
2010-07-16 9:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
This is like deja vu

2010-07-16 9:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
mrcurtain - 2010-07-16 7:49 PM

bryancd - 2010-07-16 3:15 PM I'm not going to argue in this thread, I'll just say the day someone wins an open marathon or posts the fastest Ironman run split using this protocol will be the day I adopt it. Until then you know where I stand...or rather run..


Well... these results aren't too bad.  :-)

"I [Hal Higdon] once ran a 2:29 marathon, walking through every aid station. My son Kevin ran 2:18 and qualified for the Olympic Trials employing a similar strategy. And Bill Rodgers took four brief breaks (tying a shoe on one of them) while running 2:09 and winning the 1975 Boston Marathon. Walking gives your body a chance to rest, and you'll be able to continue running more comfortably. It's best to walk when you want to, not when your (fatigued) body forces you too."

http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00novice.htm


Perhaps you should read my post again. I think I was clear. Although this was the weakest defense of run/walk being the fastest racing method I have ever read. A 2:29 is weak and the fact that Bill Rodgers stopped to tie his shoe is rich. Congrats.

Again, I'm not interested in arguing. I think Galloway and TI and HR training and pace training and power training and RPE training all have their pro's and con's. The difference seems to be that TI and Galloway reuse to accept the con's and insist it's THE BEST method and defend it in an almost cult like method. One thing I have learned through my training and racing experience is there is NO ONE WAY. All that matters is the training you put in. You would be wise to learn from that as well. I am so done here.

Edited by bryancd 2010-07-16 9:19 PM


2010-07-16 9:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
tri808 - 2010-07-16 8:09 PM This is like deja vu



If a repetitive thread topic is so annoying to you why don't you just avoid it? There are plenty of other threads to participate in. There are newbies signing on all the time and you can't expect them all to search all topics first. And even some oldies don't stop in all that frequently. When I do I read what's at the top of the list if it's interesting. I've been on BT for 4 seasons now and this is only the second thread on the Galloway method that's caught my attention.
2010-07-16 10:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
bryancd - 2010-07-16 11:19 PM One thing I have learned through my training and racing experience is there is NO ONE WAY. All that matters is the training you put in.     I am so done here.


  No you're not 'cause I'm quoting you. 

  Ya gotta find what will work for you and do it. Whether it's at work or at play we must see 20 workable plans for every one that gets executed properly. Even a half a$$ed plan that is followed properly will usually give better results than a great plan executed poorly. My 3 cents.


  editted fer speling


Edited by blairrob 2010-07-16 10:12 PM
2010-07-17 2:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
mrcurtain - 2010-07-16 7:49 PM
bryancd - 2010-07-16 3:15 PM I'm not going to argue in this thread, I'll just say the day someone wins an open marathon or posts the fastest Ironman run split using this protocol will be the day I adopt it. Until then you know where I stand...or rather run..


Well... these results aren't too bad.  :-)

"I [Hal Higdon] once ran a 2:29 marathon, walking through every aid station. My son Kevin ran 2:18 and qualified for the Olympic Trials employing a similar strategy. And Bill Rodgers took four brief breaks (tying a shoe on one of them) while running 2:09 and winning the 1975 Boston Marathon. Walking gives your body a chance to rest, and you'll be able to continue running more comfortably. It's best to walk when you want to, not when your (fatigued) body forces you too."

http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar00novice.htm


Only thing with this is, is that Higdon does not metion that was not Rodgers plan or that he might have gone even faster without the breaks. Same for him and his son. Sure those are fast times but could they have been better? If you know about  that race in 1975, Rodgers took 4 very short breaks because he said he could not drink water and run after that race in which he ran 2:09:55. These were something like 5 second breaks so not really something you can say that this helped him "rest".  And yes the other "break" was to tie a shoe. He had that luxury since he had a big lead. But then in 1979 he did not stop at all and ran 2:09:27, so I guess running without breaks is faster in Rodgers case?
2010-07-17 2:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
Anyone have success with this?



That's from the OP.

Who was asking if anyone had tried it and perceived benefits from it.

Doesn't seem like the question was for a prescription that works for everybody (or even for the OP!), or, for that matter, asking people who hadn't tried it what their opinion was.

The discussion has kind of strayed away ...
2010-07-17 4:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
Yes, strayed away!  I think I was being pretty clear that everyone who had replied to this thread did better with run/ walk- not everyone in the whole history of the world.  I don't think there are many people out there who would argue that using this method is a good way to win marathons or even your AG at triathlons.  Honestly I'm not sure why someone who runs, say, a sub-3 marathon would even look at this thread, anymore than I would look at a thread called "moving from the 1:30 to the 1:20 lane."
I really enjoyed reading about the experiences of people who used this and had success with it- and for that matter, people who used it and didn't.  I hope they keep posting!

 


2010-07-17 7:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
TriAya - 2010-07-15 1:40 PM
chayes - 2010-07-15 1:00 PM This is the first running thread I've read with almost 100% consensus!
Just out of curiosity- a lot of people said their "overall pace"  stayed the same or was faster over the distance of a training run or race.  What do those paces look like?
I'm no speed demon and this thread really has me thinking about using the Galloway method- but are the people it's helping running 13 minute miles?  11?  9?  8?  
If you're willing to share... thanks!  Laughing 


I started out as a run-walker on a 13/mile. Several times in my long-distance training my pace was at 11/mile ... at a 1min:1min ratio!

That said I've trained with Galloway groups (and was fortunate enough to take a seminar with Galloway, twice) for years and we always had 8-9 minute groups as well. So depending on your goals it can work well for faster runners also.


To continue with this thought, and it's very much in the line of whether anyone has had success with run-walk ...

So far (this year) when I've run, I've done so on a 3:1 ratio on a 13:00/mile.

I was fondly remembering when my pace was 11:00 on a 1:1. So just for fun, today I did my long run (caveat, right now my long run is 5.5 miles) on a 1:1, but being careful to run at about the same level of perceived exertion.

Holy cannoli ... turns out my average is just over 11:00/mile. So I'm going back to the 1:1 ratio. The reason I strayed from it is that it drove me crazy, all that backnforthnbacknforth, but I have to admit that it's always worked better for me than a longer interval.
2010-07-17 10:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
tri808 - 2010-07-16 9:09 PM This is like deja vu



Sorry. Apparently I missed the previous threads on this...If we never repeated threads or questions, I guess we'd have nothing to talk about and this forum would die a slow, painful death.
2010-07-17 10:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
All the talk of run/walk urged me to try it for the first time this morning.  My long run was 15 miles today and I ran 10 minutes and walked 1 min.  Over the entire summer I have averaged a 10:05/mi. pace keeping my HR below 155 (70% of max).  I ran a 10:12/mi. pace today run/walking.

 I had problems staying hydrated and it was hot but i think the run/walk vs. steady/slower pace is a wash in my case.  I also had to look at my watch a lot more often today which seemed to slow down time.  YMMV, I will try it again and keep track of all my data to see if it is the right strategy in my training for my first marathon.  
2010-07-17 10:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
TriAya -
So far (this year) when I've run, I've done so on a 3:1 ratio on a 13:00/mile.

I was fondly remembering when my pace was 11:00 on a 1:1. So just for fun, today I did my long run (caveat, right now my long run is 5.5 miles) on a 1:1, but being careful to run at about the same level of perceived exertion.

Holy cannoli ... turns out my average is just over 11:00/mile. So I'm going back to the 1:1 ratio. The reason I strayed from it is that it drove me crazy, all that backnforthnbacknforth, but I have to admit that it's always worked better for me than a longer interval.


You mean like 1 minute of running and 1 minute walking?  And you averaged 11 min miles?  Holy cannoli indeed! 
2010-07-17 10:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
TriAya! WOW! 11 min. from 13:00? That's quite incredible! Go you!


2010-07-17 2:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
bryancd - Perhaps you should read my post again. I think I was clear. Although this was the weakest defense of run/walk being the fastest racing method I have ever read. A 2:29 is weak and the fact that Bill Rodgers stopped to tie his shoe is rich. ... All that matters is the training you put in. You would be wise to learn from that as well. I am so done here.


Please note my smiley, and try not to take this quite so seriously.  I'm not.  :-)

And, I don't think a 2:29 marathon is "weak".  I think almost everyone here would be absolutely thrilled from such a result.

Finally, sorry, but I completely disagree with the idea that "all that matters is the training".  Every sport has strategy to it, including running/triathlon.  And employing the most effective race strategy can help any racer win a race.

For the absolute FOP racers, there are strategies for how to break away from your competitors, how to test their fitness, and how to mentally break them down.  I cannot imagine that you would argue that there is zero value in that.

And for the MOP and BOP racers, run/walking seems like it is a very valuable strategy to help those racers achieve their best possible result. 
2010-07-17 2:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
TriAya - Holy cannoli ... turns out my average is just over 11:00/mile. So I'm going back to the 1:1 ratio. The reason I strayed from it is that it drove me crazy, all that backnforthnbacknforth, but I have to admit that it's always worked better for me than a longer interval.


Wacky.

Why don't you try splitting the difference, and seeing how 2:1 works for you?
2010-08-11 1:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?

I actually found this thread on Google while doing some research on the Galloway run/walk method.

I have had calf tightness, ITB and various other aches and pains now and in the past especially as I start to get up over 35-40 minutes. 

My last run, I started to feel the ITB pain at the knee or what I thought might be that pain.  Since I have had it and am trying a come back, I am very cognizant of it and anything that might feel like it throws red flags. After the ITB pain on my last run, I walked for about a min and stretched it a little and then started back up without further issue and did a 45 min run.  

This got me to thinking about the Galloway method and if I should just do the walk/run and get over the ego thing I have where I want to be able to run the whole distance.  Maybe that is not realistic for me at this point. 

So, after reading all these testimonies and the idea that in many cases it does not slow you down as I thought it would, then I am definately going to switch to it for the next 30 days or so and see how it goes. 

I seem to be injury prone and I would rather run/walk than nothing if it will help.....

Thanks everyone for their comments.

I think I will start with a 4min/1min and see how that goes.   Right now, my pace is about 10:30 per mile.  My 5k PR before the ITB was 9:10...

 

2010-08-11 1:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Galloway run/walk?
chayes - 2010-07-15 1:00 AM This is the first running thread I've read with almost 100% consensus!
Just out of curiosity- a lot of people said their "overall pace"  stayed the same or was faster over the distance of a training run or race.  What do those paces look like?
I'm no speed demon and this thread really has me thinking about using the Galloway method- but are the people it's helping running 13 minute miles?  11?  9?  8?  
If you're willing to share... thanks!  Laughing 


Personally, i used it starting out running and my first marathon was 4:26 which was completely commensurate with my training.  The last i used it in was 4:08

As mentioned by MGalanter the major running specialty store in Canada advocates 10 and 1's and most races will have pace bunnies that do this - all the way to the 3:30 marathon finish time. On one running board i used to frequent a guy there was the 3:30 using 10 and 1's. 

I've phased out walk breaks - but I would tell anyone to use them - there's nothing wrong with it and it was a great way to help build distance!
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