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Best low rolling resistance tire?
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 2011-01-05 9:48 AM |
New user 84 |  Subject: Best low rolling resistance tire?I have been listening to some back episodes of tri talk and found the one on rolling resistance very interesting. The tests I have seen show a difference of up to 20 watts between the best and worst tires (For one wheel!). I had no idea there was that much difference between tires. But I am having a hard time deciding which tires are best (for me). The test David (from Tri Talk) references is done on a real road (as far as I can tell), which is a definite plus but the chart is hard to read. The sizes are all odd (the tester rides a recumbent) and the information on the specific tires seems to be incomplete. David also mentioned that there was a huge difference between latex and butel tubes, but the test from Bike Tech Review shows a difference of about 3 watts (per wheel) with latex tubes. Significant but not as huge as the difference between the best and worst tires. I also found a test done by tour magazine. The is a few years old and done on a roller. While I am sure the roller is great for eliminating variables I have doubts about how directly performance on a roller translates to real world performance. Also the test is for very few tires and newer tires like the Michelin pro race 3 are not on there. I also found a test done by a member of Bike tech review The tests where done on a roller, but he said he also did some tests on the road and while rolling resistance was worse on the road it was a consistent difference between tires. After looking at all this data my head is spinning, I want a clincher tire with good rolling resistance and a reasonable price but I only have one set of wheels so I need decent durability and puncture resistance, I am not going to swap tires or tubes out on race day. To make the decision harder many tires will have 8 great reviews and 2 that say it is the worst ever (Like the Vittoria Open Corsa Evo - http://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/vittoria-open-corsa-evo-cx-i... . What do you guys think? What is a good, reasonably priced clincher tire that has good rolling resistance and good puncture resistance? Are latex tubes worth it? tour magazine test (on a roller)- http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/2007/08/06-tire-rolling-resistance-test-results.html Bike tech review (Rollers) - http://www.biketechreview.com/tires/rolling-resistance/475-roller-data recumbent test (real road surface?) http://www.hadland.me.uk/rolrec10b.pdf |
| 2011-01-05 9:57 AM in reply to: #3279248 |
| Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? After reading about all this mess for a couple years now and trying to figure out any of it I have decided to try this for this year's races: Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX (or Open Corsa Slick) with latex tubes. From what I've read these are not to be used as daily tires, they wear out too fast and they're not as puncture resistant as they could be. Training I've got a bunch of GP4000s tires and a pair of Gatorskins. |
| 2011-01-05 9:57 AM in reply to: #3279248 |
Master 1927    Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? I always see this referenced and have it bookmarked: http://www.industrializedcyclist.com/tiretest.pdf I roll the Corsa clinchers you mentioned with latex tubes. I like them and they feel better to me than some other combos I've tried with about 4 or 5 other popular tires with latex and butyl. |
| 2011-01-05 10:00 AM in reply to: #3279248 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf%3Cbr here you go. personally i use zipp tangente 21mm with latex tubes. these tires do not last. you can literally see the wear after 100 miles. i rode over a piece of glass and it ripped the tire wide open. Edited by trix 2011-01-05 10:01 AM |
| 2011-01-05 10:04 AM in reply to: #3279273 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? DanielG - 2011-01-05 9:57 AM After reading about all this mess for a couple years now and trying to figure out any of it I have decided to try this for this year's races: Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX (or Open Corsa Slick) with latex tubes. From what I've read these are not to be used as daily tires, they wear out too fast and they're not as puncture resistant as they could be. Training I've got a bunch of GP4000s tires and a pair of Gatorskins. everyone says that and I don't know where they ride, but if you look at my logs and monthly mileage for the summer...that was all on the tire mentioned and it did it's job. Won't last you 5000 miles probably but it'll get you through a couple thousand pretty easily depending on the roads you are riding. You can define what you want as long lasting but if a tire lasts me about 2000 and feels good and rolls well I'll take it over something that will last 3 times as long but rolls like sh*t. It comes down to your threshold to shell out 140 a set every once in awhile to replace I guess. I ride the gp4000 I have leftover on my trainer and leave it as a rear tire for the winter for now so I don't need to switch it. Generally good but for an extra few bucks the tire you mentioned is a lot better imo. edit: you are right though. they aren't as puncture resistant so you can't be careless. Edited by acumenjay 2011-01-05 10:06 AM |
| 2011-01-05 10:17 AM in reply to: #3279248 |
Elite 3088 Austin, TX Gold member | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? I'm using the Bontrager R4's as my race tires. I do change tires and tubes on race day. I don't care what the rolling resistance is of my training tires, so I use cheap and inexpensive with butyl tubes. When it counts, I use the more expensive gear. |
| 2011-01-05 10:35 AM in reply to: #3279248 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? I use Bontrager Aerowing 19's with Latex Tubes. If I were to use a thicker wheel, I'd run Specialized Mondo Pro Open Tubulars (they are clinchers) or SuperSonics. Clincher's in all cases of course. |
| 2011-01-05 11:12 AM in reply to: #3279349 |
Master 2725 Washington, DC Metro | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? dgunthert - 2011-01-05 11:17 AM I'm using the Bontrager R4's as my race tires. I do change tires and tubes on race day. I don't care what the rolling resistance is of my training tires, so I use cheap and inexpensive with butyl tubes. When it counts, I use the more expensive gear. Yea and that should make you faster... in fact I'd go as far as to say get the highest rolling resistance tire you can find for training, then switch to the good gear on race day. |
| 2011-01-05 11:23 AM in reply to: #3279248 |
Expert 1322 Savannah | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? I'm a believer that you can't have a good training tire and a good race tire in one product. You're going to sacrifice somewhere, in either durability or rolling resistance. But if you are willing to do that just stick with GP4000s. I think they are middle of the road. Currently using Bontrager R4 Aeros with latex tubes as my race set up. This set was picked up because I couldn't get a set of Specialized Mondo Pro Opens to me in time. But I will say that I am very happy with them at this point. Edited by mktoson 2011-01-05 11:30 AM |
| 2011-01-05 12:23 PM in reply to: #3279248 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? |
| 2011-01-05 12:53 PM in reply to: #3279605 |
| Modesto, California | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? mktoson - 2011-01-05 9:23 AM I'm a believer that you can't have a good training tire and a good race tire in one product. You're going to sacrifice somewhere, in either durability or rolling resistance. But if you are willing to do that just stick with GP4000s. I think they are middle of the road. Currently using Bontrager R4 Aeros with latex tubes as my race set up. This set was picked up because I couldn't get a set of Specialized Mondo Pro Opens to me in time. But I will say that I am very happy with them at this point. Agreed, durability,rolling resistance,comfort,cornering are all things that vary from tire to tire, Conti's or Pro 3's are a solid choice. |
| 2011-01-05 12:57 PM in reply to: #3279772 |
Expert 1322 Savannah | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? spudone - 2011-01-05 1:23 PM Bontrager R4 Aeros Where did you buy these? I haven't seen them available anywhere yet. Had my local bike shop order me a pair. I've been racing with them since July. |
| 2011-01-05 3:55 PM in reply to: #3279248 |
Member 181 | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? I run Zipp open tubulars on both the road bike and tri bike. Love the tires and come with a kevlar liner to prevent some punctures. I also run latex tubes. Challenge latex tubes on the road bike and since I have a disc on my tt rig I'll run a challenge up front and a michelin in the rear. 21/23 combo on both steeds. Couldn't be happier. Train and race in them. Heck, I have spare Zipp tires on the shelf waiting their turn. I like them quite a bit. -J |
| 2011-01-06 10:14 AM in reply to: #3279248 |
Veteran 820 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? How much of a difference can tires make in say a 40k TT for an average rider like myself. I'm not sure how my tires rate, Vittoria Rubino Pro Slick, but I was thinking of putting on something like the Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX with latex tubes. So not knowing what mine are rated at from the test. Lets just say something like .0025 Crr or 12.3 watts per wheel vs something with .00305 or 15 watts per wheel. Lets say using 200 watts how much time would it save? |
| 2011-01-06 2:28 PM in reply to: #3279605 |
Veteran 490 Dallas | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? I'm really in this topic and asked someone at masters today their opinion. Multiple Kona qualifer that does high 9 low 10 times. He is a tube guy but does/has raced clinchers. He said it's hard to beat the Contis GPs or Triathlons in terms of handling and puncture resistance for HIMs and IMs. I asked him about the Corsa EX tires and he said for a Sprint and Olympic only where seconds do matter. He went on to say that you probably double your chance for a flat with a Corsa tire over my current Triathlons. After one flat the Triathlons win by a long shot. I'd love to see a poll on this topic. Anyone know if there is one floating around on BT? I'm sure it has been discussed before. |
| 2011-01-06 2:43 PM in reply to: #3279248 |
Expert 758 Port Colborne, Ontario | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? Personally, I'd rather sacrifice some rolling resistance for puncture protection, especially on shorter races. Get a flat on a sprint, your chances of anything (but finishing) are done. Not as important on a longer HIM or IM. I used Conti UltraGatorskins all last season for training & racing (sprints). For the 1-2 mins I MAY* have lost on the bike, I felt more confident I wouldn't flat and waste 5 mins fixing it. *(may being the keyword, was probably closer to 30 secs lost in a sprint for a slower tire) |
| 2011-01-06 3:05 PM in reply to: #3281968 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? cstoulil - 2011-01-06 11:14 AM How much of a difference can tires make in say a 40k TT for an average rider like myself. I'm not sure how my tires rate, Vittoria Rubino Pro Slick, but I was thinking of putting on something like the Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX with latex tubes. So not knowing what mine are rated at from the test. Lets just say something like .0025 Crr or 12.3 watts per wheel vs something with .00305 or 15 watts per wheel. Lets say using 200 watts how much time would it save? All else equal, about a minute by my calc. |
| 2011-01-06 3:28 PM in reply to: #3279248 |
Extreme Veteran 586 Richmond | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? I am purposely not reading through all the replys here before answering you. I have to start off with this...You absolutely positively should swap your tires and tubes for races. Trying to balance good rolling resistance with good puncture resistance leaves you wanting in both areas, whereas a little time and perhaps a little more money can literally get you the best of both worlds. Not to mention those flat resistant Conti tires that are being sold to you as the best "compromise tire" are actually more flat prone once they have 300-1000 miles of training logged on them. The best flat prevention techniques I know of are #1 Watch what you run over and #2 Use tires with very little wear when it counts. I have used Bontrager Race X Lite Pros, Specialized Mondo S-works Open Tubualrs, Vittoria Evo Corsa, etc ,etc. All of the lightest, fastest, most flat prone tires you can buy. I have also used Contis and many other less flat prone tires. Guess what? You cabn flat on anything. Multiple times in one ride on occasion. You can also ride 2000 miles on the lightest weight tire money can buy on occasion. Don't plan your race strategy against not flatting. Plan to use the equipment that allows you to go as fast as you can. Make sure it is in good working order and in the case of tires, make sure they are fairly new. Buy that $100-120 set of race tires and you can use them solely for racing for 2-3 seasons and still have them be fairly new in regards to flat protection. Buy $15 tires and heavy cheap butyl tubes to train on. Do a little online shopping and you can probably pick up the race tires and acouple sets of training tires for what you would pay for one set of race tires locally. Finally, that member of biketechreview.com who does the testing is Al Morrison, and imo what he has done in regards to tire testing is head and shoulders above anything else that exists. That this info is given out for free is mind boggling. His exhaustive research is a big part of me being a 29mph tt'er instead of a 28mph tt'er. He will even test any tire or tube you send him. I have sent him a couple. Thanks Al! |
| 2011-01-06 4:58 PM in reply to: #3279248 |
Master 1795 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? There is a valid point to be made for certain tires offering lower resistence and hence fast times. I still fall in the camp that losing a minute or two with greater % chance of not getting a flat is ok in my book. I go with Conti's 4000s and have never been disapointed. I am not blind to fact that I am leaving a little something on the table, but have never been that guy or gal on side of the road durign the race either. I know goal is to best you can during the race, but maybe, maybe 5% of people reading this have shot at the podium on race day. Is that worth the extra $$$ and time in changing your race tires? Perhaps for some and that would be ok. Other factor not mentioned is race day conditions. Would you ride same tire on dry/wet conditions? |
| 2011-01-06 5:05 PM in reply to: #3282799 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? RVachon - 2011-01-06 4:43 PM I used Conti UltraGatorskins all last season for training & racing (sprints). For the 1-2 mins I MAY* have lost on the bike, I felt more confident I wouldn't flat and waste 5 mins fixing it. *(may being the keyword, was probably closer to 30 secs lost in a sprint for a slower tire) If we assume that the Gatorskin performs as well as the worst tire on Al Morrison's list (and I would suggest that it isn't even close to performing this well), it would cost about 24W per tire. Switching to the Mondo Pro would be 11.5W per tire; an overall savings of 25W. Since 5W = .5s/km (approximate) then you are looking at 50 seconds for a sprint and 1:40 for an Oly. Shane |
| 2011-01-06 6:23 PM in reply to: #3283136 |
| 190 | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? gsmacleod - 2011-01-06 3:05 PM Since 5W = .5s/km (approximate) then you are looking at 50 seconds for a sprint and 1:40 for an Oly. Since the bike leg is 4x longer in distance than the run leg, a 1 sec/km saving on the bike is like a 4 sec/km saving on the run. So a passive 2.5 sec/km savings on the bike (due to switching over to low rolling resistance tires) is equivalent to increasing your running pace by 10 sec/km. |
| 2011-01-07 7:18 AM in reply to: #3282799 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? RVachon - 2011-01-06 2:43 PM Personally, I'd rather sacrifice some rolling resistance for puncture protection, especially on shorter races. Get a flat on a sprint, your chances of anything (but finishing) are done. Not as important on a longer HIM or IM. I used Conti UltraGatorskins all last season for training & racing (sprints). For the 1-2 mins I MAY* have lost on the bike, I felt more confident I wouldn't flat and waste 5 mins fixing it. *(may being the keyword, was probably closer to 30 secs lost in a sprint for a slower tire) read dave's response. its pretty valid. you might as well not ride a tt bike, or have carbon wheels or any other aero stuff, all the stuff can fail. |
| 2011-01-07 12:48 PM in reply to: #3279248 |
Veteran 490 Dallas | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? I picked up some Corsa EVO EXs today. I'm going to test them over the next month or so and ride them till they fall apart. |
| 2011-01-07 3:45 PM in reply to: #3284887 |
Extreme Veteran 408 Spokane, Wa | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? I bought a used set of Hed tubular wheels last year with Tufo tires glued on. I road them for about a month in one race and a couple training rides. They felt like plastic and the ride was really rough and they didn't seem any faster over the same course than my training wheels. I decided to buy the open corsa evo cx's and I was amazed at how much better they felt than the Tufo's. The real eye opener was how much faster they were over the same course. My point is I paid good money for a set of race wheels and having crappy tires on them pretty much ruined any advantage I had gained. So if your going to buy an aero helmet, TT bike, or race wheels make sure you put a good set of tires on. Oh and people afraid of flatting is just a poor excuse. I had gatorskins on my trainer tires and would flat quite a bit. Never flatted with the vittoria's. I don't think they were better as far as flat protection, but if you're going to flat 90% of the time you were going to no matter what tires you're riding. |
| 2011-01-07 5:19 PM in reply to: #3285365 |
| 190 | Subject: RE: Best low rolling resistance tire? mallen4574 - 2011-01-07 1:45 PM I bought a used set of Hed tubular wheels last year with Tufo tires glued on. [...] My point is I paid good money for a set of race wheels and having crappy tires on them pretty much ruined any advantage I had gained. Friends don't let friends ride Tufos. http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/find-the-tufo.png |
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