Lance Armstrong: Court of public opinion (Page 5)

 I love a good conspiracy theory...  Seems odd that all of Lance's team mates get caught after them leave his team to go off on their own.   Hmmm... makes you wonder about that donation LA made to the testing labs.  Or maybe a phone call to tip them off when to test certain people. Hmmm.... Or maybe they just had the best system in place.  Maybe the UCI knew and it was just to good of a story to pass up.  Then again I think game 3 of the 2006 NBA finals was fixed also  

From what I've read Hamilton has always been a horrible interview, so he is pretty constistant..  I haven't spent the time on youtube to see if it's true though. 

But anyone that has spent years lying about something. Taking money to prove they are innocent, always denying.  Then goes on TV to say the whole thing was a shame I'd think would act just like he did. OR at least it's not that out of line. It's got to be a huge embarrassment. I think of people that have lied to me and been exposed. Most couldn't look me in the eye to apologize either

I'm not a psycology major, so maybe someone can clarify...but isn't there a trait about looking up and to your left as a sign that you're lying.  Because that's your natural instinct when using the creative/imaginative side of your brain.  Again...I'm not an expert on this, but that's kind of what I was talking about.

If he really was shameful of telling his story...I imagine his reaction would have been to look downwards...which he was doing for a lot of the interview.  But even when asked some simple questions like..."how did you know Lance doped"...Tyler took a few seconds, rolled his eyes up and to the left, then responded..."because I saw him".  To me...that looked really fake for such a simple answer.

Again...that's just my take on it.  And I'm not defending Lance.  I believe he doped along with everyone else.  I just think he was smarter about doping than those who got caught...and now those who got caught are trying to bring him down...which I don't necessarily agree with.

Gather 'round folks, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.  THEY'RE FREAKING ENTERTAINERS! They're bulletin boards on wheels.  What does it matter if one of them cheats or they all cheat?  It brings viewers (money) to their sport.  Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds and countless other took steroids.  It didn't hurt the game of baseball.  People still fork out money to go to the game, advertisers are paying millions, and billions are spent on the broadcast rights.  It's obvious nobody cares.  I'd even argue it was good for the game.  Who is going to watch (pay) a couple hundred "no-name" cyclist ride the same terrain every July?  They need a "new and improved" product.  It's in the best interest everyone involved to cheat.  If you want morality in sport, look somewhere else.  The saying is true, "If you're not cheating, you're not trying. And it's only cheating if you get caught".  Like I said, professional athletes are entertainers.  This is like complaining that Brittney Spears lip syncs or Hollywood uses CGI.  There are countless examples of people cheating in amateur sports.  Why would paying someone millions of dollars suddenly make them morally pure?

I really don't care too much about most of these arguments except for this.  Because the facts show otherwise.  Most of the people we know doped weren't caught through drug testing.  They were caught through other investigative means.  See things like Operation Puerto.  Check out the '98 Tour. Etc.

Again, I don't pretend to argue that this shows Lance must have been doping.  Just that not having a positive test as a rider during his days does not say much to me one way or the other.

Facts are not required to form opinions about someone.  If I am convinced Lance doped (and I am), who cares...he doesn't go to jail, he doesn't get fined, he doesn't get stripped of his TdF titles.

Again...read the thread title.  Until Lance gets criminally charged with something, facts are not required.  I agree that there is no hard evidence as of yet...which is why I also believe that it is not worth pursuing if Lance doped or not and that the feds investigation is a waste of time and a publicity stunt. 

But that doesn't mean I believe he's clean...nor does it deny me the right to think that.  Just like most people believe OJ is guilty...despite being proven innocent given the FACTS.

Agreed. Mob violence trumps facts every time.  It doesn't matter if he is completely innocent, what people think is more important.

Forgive me if I'm misinterpretting your sarcasm...but what I think about Lance (or what others think) without facts should not matter or be "more important".  It's simply my opinion.  I'm all for dropping the entire investigation on Lance due to the lack of facts.  I will agree that if you're going to advocate that Lance was a doper and should be stripped of his titles, then you should come with facts.

I'm not trying to convince anyone Lance was a doper (or start "mob violence" ), so I don't believe facts are needed. 

I have not dug through all 7 pages, but this am on our sports radio show they said the following:

If you take the top 10 riders from the 7 TdF's that Lance won, that's 70 total spots, 41 of those spots are riders that have admitted to taking PEDs or were convicted of using PEDs.  Lance is not in the 41.  Crazy. 

Crazy that there were 41 or crazy that Lance was not part of that number?

I'm more concerned about some age-groupers who are definitely doping.  Lots of guys claiming Low-T can get supplemental testosterone very easily.

As for lance, the guy has done more for cancer research than the entire medical community combined.  That said, I think he doped, but I think a huge majority of pro-athletes have cheated.  Their livelihoods depend on performance via endorsements, etc.  has to be hard not to try and get an edge somehow.  Tough debate.

By the way, my performance enhancing drug is listening to rage against the machine on my trainer.  works wonders. no side effects

I am pretty sure the Susan G. Komen Foundation and  the Jon Huntsman Cancer Institute would argue this point.

x2.   I"ve been in the Oncology field for nearly 20 years.. Most of the time we just sat around and did nothing.  then Lance came along and now we actually have to do something

x3 I took a little offense to that also.

I also have no problem with middle age men with "low-T" getting physiologic replacement for their impotence.

"See things like Operation Puerto.  Check out the '98 Tour."

I also mentioned Ullrich in a prior post.  Do some 'googling' and see what you learn.  Most of the riders (and other athelets, e.g., Marion Jones) who were found to be doping were not found by drug testing.

With all due respect, do some research on the subject if you want to argue your point.

Lots of guys don't have to claim anything. They just buy it online. So what? Who cares? In every endeavor in life, regardless of those around you, the competiotion is always with your self. I don't worry too much about what others are doing.

<tuwood wades into thread cautiously>

I watched the 60 minutes interview the other day with Tyler and really had a hard time believing anything he said.  Just the fact that he's hocking a book and trying to make money out of this whole thing throws a huge wrench into his credibility for me.

No clue if Lance doped or not, but I do chuckle that all the people who supposedly doped with him got nailed by the tests that he didn't.  seems a little strange.

Well, if all that is good enough for you, good on you.

Here's an interesting article from Sports Illustrated this morning.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/magazine/05/23/lance.armstrong/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a5&eref=sihp