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2011-06-05 1:14 PM
in reply to: #3533260

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
the bear - 2011-06-06 3:05 AM
TriAya - 2011-06-05 12:45 PM
the bear - 2011-06-06 2:26 AM

TriAya - 2011-06-05 12:12 PM

ETA: one very good reason for no mt/cruiser bikes is that (at least for cruisers, and some mtb's look like it) they take up way more of their fair/allotted share of transition space.

Way more? How so? Don't have a cruiser but my MTB is two inches longer and no wider than my road or my tri bike.

Coaster brakes and fixies are banned by the USAT rules that say one must have a brake on each wheel, although either would be allowed if the two-brake requirement was met.

I confess I have no idea what WTC/NAS events (and the more I look, the more there are that have the exact "only road or triathlon style bikes" wording) had in mind when they adopted that rule (likely from USAT, it seems?). I ASSUMED it was primarily because of space and then service/pickup issues.

Would cruiser bars (sorry, I just can't imagine them NOT being wider, and the bikes longer), mountain bike bars, and hybrid bars on average be wider than road/tri bars?

You said in yor original post

"There's a reason that 70.3 and Ironman races don't allow any kind of bike except road or tri, in road or tri setups. Even if they don't enforce it, there's a RULE and a REASON behind it!"

What reason did you have in mind there? Certainly that they take up a few more inches in transition wouldn't make your iteration a "pearl of wisdom"?

I did not set any standards for 'pearl of wisdom' or 'cautionary tale,' so interpret liberally.

You've seen 70.3 and IM transition setups. A few inches indeed makes a big difference in racking, as well as in the narrow lanes in between rack rows where you've got an awful lot of people moving pretty fast with their bicycles. The wider and heavier those bikes are, the more they create a space and possibly safety problem.

Not that I thought my assumptions through with immense care (aren't those the things that lead to pearls of wisdom and cautionary tales in the first place?), but I also think SAG wagons wouldn't be thrilled with having to load up MTBs, cruisers, and/or hybrids.

Aren'choo some kind of USAT official? Where did the rule come from?

I am done throwing my pearls before piglets!!!



2011-06-05 1:44 PM
in reply to: #3533271

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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
TriAya - 2011-06-05 1:14 PM

Aren'choo some kind of USAT official? Where did the rule come from?

 

There is no rule. Not in the USAT. Not pervasive throughout the WTC. Never seen it except the few race-specific examples you've shown. That's why I'm asking for the reason you cited it here. It sure looked like you had a reason in your OP, otherwise you wouldn't be advising others of the "rule."



Edited by the bear 2011-06-05 1:46 PM
2011-06-05 2:06 PM
in reply to: #3533302

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
the bear - 2011-06-06 3:44 AM
TriAya - 2011-06-05 1:14 PM

Aren'choo some kind of USAT official? Where did the rule come from?

 

There is no rule. Not in the USAT. Not pervasive throughout the WTC. Never seen it except the few race-specific examples you've shown. That's why I'm asking for the reason you cited it here. It sure looked like you had a reason in your OP, otherwise you wouldn't be advising others of the "rule."

Then why would the NAS guide call it a USAT Rule Amendment?

Perhaps not pervasive, but so far and growing, the search has turned up (should we assume all NAS races? if it's in the guide? and both the World Championships) in recent years if not also for this year:

70.3: Muskoka, Honu, Oceanside, UK, Philippines, St. Croix, Busselton, Miami, World Championships, China, Asia-Pacific Championships (Phuket), South Africa, VIneman

All 70.3/IM in Germany

IM: Canada, World Championships, Lake Placid, the old China and Korea, UK, South Africa, France, Austria

Definitely not an exhaustive list, but I think looking at just a few of those (NAS/WC in particular) I might be forgiven for thinking the rule applied to most of them.

And it seemed obvious to me the reason was space. (I would be a prime offender here, although a strange turn of events made it not so).

Rev3 has the exact same rule, written the exact same way. Or are all these races just being idiots and throwing arbitrary rules in there? I don't know where it comes from. I knew several key Ironman-brand races had it, assumed most/all did, and assumed what I thought was an obvious reason for it.



Edited by TriAya 2011-06-05 2:13 PM
2011-06-05 2:12 PM
in reply to: #3533322

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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
TriAya - 2011-06-05 2:06 PM
the bear - 2011-06-06 3:44 AM
TriAya - 2011-06-05 1:14 PM

Aren'choo some kind of USAT official? Where did the rule come from?

 

There is no rule. Not in the USAT. Not pervasive throughout the WTC. Never seen it except the few race-specific examples you've shown. That's why I'm asking for the reason you cited it here. It sure looked like you had a reason in your OP, otherwise you wouldn't be advising others of the "rule."

Then why would the NAS guide call it a USAT Rule Amendment?

Perhaps not pervasive, but so far the search has turned up (should we assume all NAS races? if it's in the guide? and both the World Championships) in recent years if not also for this year:

70.3: Muskoka, Honu, Oceanside, UK, Philippines, St. Croix, Busselton, Miami, World Championships, China, Asia-Pacific Championships (Phuket)

All 70.3/IM in Germany

IM: Canada, World Championships, Lake Placid, the old China and Korea

Definitely not an exhaustive list, but I think looking at just a few of those (NAS/WC in particular) I might be forgiven for thinking the rule applied to most of them.

And it seemed obvious to me the reason was space. (I would be a prime offender here, although a strange turn of events made it not so).

It's called a "USAT Rule Amendment" because it amends the USAT rules. RDs are allowed to seek permission to do that. WTC does it most commonly with their drafting zone (four bike lengths rather than three) and their no-bare-torso rule.

Still don't understand why you would consider the space consideration (if indeed there is one) a "pearl of wisdon" but I'll just chalk it up as goofiness similar to pop tart fetishes.

2011-06-05 2:17 PM
in reply to: #3533328

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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
the bear - 2011-06-06 4:12 AM

It's called a "USAT Rule Amendment" because it amends the USAT rules. RDs are allowed to seek permission to do that. WTC does it most commonly with their drafting zone (four bike lengths rather than three) and their no-bare-torso rule.

Still don't understand why you would consider the space consideration (if indeed there is one) a "pearl of wisdon" but I'll just chalk it up as goofiness similar to pop tart fetishes.

You jumped my edit again, mister pearl-wearing bear piglet!!!

Nah, more a cautionary tale, kinda like don't bring a bucket into transition (although I myself am not against buckets--making, I think, three of us on this site). I think the space argument is a reasonable one (that's my reason).

For what other reason, or if anyone knows (and you know everything and you're always right, except about Pop Tartswhatswrongwithyou) would so many Ironman-brand races, the Rev3 series, and whole bunch of triathlons adopt the same exact rule written verbatim?

2011-06-05 2:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
I did a race in Delaware once where the guy next to me in transition was struggling to wrestle his wetsuit on backwards until I set him straight. Then, fifteen minutes later, as my wave was about to go in the water, I looked over and the guy next to me had his wetsuit on inside out. Had the back zipped up and everything. Still not sure how he managed to do that. I was about to say something, but then the starting gun went off...


2011-06-05 2:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
You have a link to the Rev 3 rule? I did Rev 3 Knoxville last year and don't remember seeing a prohibition against MTBs... I know for sure IM70.3 NO has no such prohibition. I'll take your word on the others, but still looking for a reason. Seems incongruous that someone would advise against multi-colored bodily fluids and then say, more importantly, don't take an inch or two more in transition, so I thought you had another underlying reason.
2011-06-05 2:41 PM
in reply to: #3533236

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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales

cjhild - 2011-06-05 10:42 AM When you decide to go big time and dump water on your head at an aid station, be sure it is water and not sports drink.

Doah.  That one made me LOL!  sticky!

2011-06-05 3:04 PM
in reply to: #3533363

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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales

the bear - 2011-06-06 4:38 AM You have a link to the Rev 3 rule? I did Rev 3 Knoxville last year and don't remember seeing a prohibition against MTBs... I know for sure IM70.3 NO has no such prohibition. I'll take your word on the others, but still looking for a reason. Seems incongruous that someone would advise against multi-colored bodily fluids and then say, more importantly, don't take an inch or two more in transition, so I thought you had another underlying reason.

http://www.rev3tri.com/!/race-info/course-info/bike.htm

Right-hand side, scroll down. Right now the Quassy info is there (of course), but this is the main bike info page for all the Rev3 races.

Now now, don't be puttin' words in the melon-goddess mouth. For one thing, I did list the technicolor body fluids first, and for another, I didn't say any of the items were more important than others.

You and I seem to have a very different idea of what "a few inches" are and how important they might be. (cough cough) That said, you have seen pictures of my old ride, yes? A road bike, an old road bike, but outfitted with cruiser bars so I could reach the handlebars. I'm thinkin' it was a little more than a couple of inches ... on both sides.

2011-06-05 3:18 PM
in reply to: #3533402

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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
TriAya - 2011-06-05 3:04 PM

the bear - 2011-06-06 4:38 AM You have a link to the Rev 3 rule? I did Rev 3 Knoxville last year and don't remember seeing a prohibition against MTBs... I know for sure IM70.3 NO has no such prohibition. I'll take your word on the others, but still looking for a reason. Seems incongruous that someone would advise against multi-colored bodily fluids and then say, more importantly, don't take an inch or two more in transition, so I thought you had another underlying reason.

http://www.rev3tri.com/!/race-info/course-info/bike.htm

Right-hand side, scroll down. Right now the Quassy info is there (of course), but this is the main bike info page for all the Rev3 races.

Now now, don't be puttin' words in the melon-goddess mouth. For one thing, I did list the technicolor body fluids first, and for another, I didn't say any of the items were more important than others.

You and I seem to have a very different idea of what "a few inches" are and how important they might be. (cough cough) That said, you have seen pictures of my old ride, yes? A road bike, an old road bike, but outfitted with cruiser bars so I could reach the handlebars. I'm thinkin' it was a little more than a couple of inches ... on both sides.

Thinkin' ain't measuring. Like I said previously, my MTB is two inches longer and no wider than my road or my tri bike. Not sure how an extra two inches of length on the MTB would be a burden to anyone. Certainly road/tri bikes of a bigger size than my 54s would take up more room than my MTB. Got to be another reason.



Edited by the bear 2011-06-05 3:20 PM
2011-06-05 3:30 PM
in reply to: #3533417

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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
the bear - 2011-06-06 5:18 AM

Thinkin' ain't measuring. Like I said previously, my MTB is two inches longer and no wider than my road or my tri bike. Not sure how an extra two inches of length on the MTB would be a burden to anyone. Certainly road/tri bikes of a bigger size than my 54s would take up more room than my MTB. Got to be another reason.

Well, sure, the bigger road/tri bikes would be bigger--but I'd bring it back to on average, are non-road/tri bikes bigger? And bigger enough for that to be THE or A reason for the prohibition?

I'm still searching for THE or A reason (not just my reason) all these races embrace this rule, but coming up short. Seems like long on rule, short on reason.

Heh. Usually I'm short on both.



2011-06-05 6:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales

*poptarts are excellent recovers/energy foods

*the number poptarts consumed per day determines quality of life

*if you are going to sit while in transition to put on socks, shoes, whatever, do not do so in the middle of the aisle between the racks. no attempt will be made to avoid you. (found out that the hard way my first race)

*remember to take the helmet off before you leave transition

*the bear is always right. (and i think someone needs a poptart...)

2011-06-05 7:26 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales

cjhild - 2011-06-05 3:42 PM When you decide to go big time and dump water on your head at an aid station, be sure it is water and not sports drink.

 

I thought I was the only one that knew that trick.   I did it about 15 years ago in a race here in Japan - the aid station attendants laughed, but it took me another 15 minutes to figure out why.

2011-06-05 7:27 PM
in reply to: #3533043

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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
DaveL - 2011-06-05 9:40 AMcopious amounts of Chinese food is not an appropriate pre race dinner for a first ever half marathon
I actually did this, and wound up with horrible side stitches and foot cramps- not a pleasant day. I would like to add that it is not a good idea to try a flying start onto the bike with your shoes clipped in just so you will look cool.
2011-06-05 8:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales

If you're drafting on the swim, do your own sighting and don't assume the draftee knows what he's doing. 

I admit I was the draftee and until a kind young man in a kayak cut me off and set me straight I had that draftee pretty far off course.

2011-06-05 9:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales

remember to take the helmet off before you leave transition

Hmmmm, good tip.....just sayin'



2011-06-05 9:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
saw someone in front of me real excited to make a quick escape and get the slip on us in trans this weekend. left with his aero helmet on lol
2011-06-06 6:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales

*Always check your bike shoes before a race to make sure the ratchets and velcro are open.  (You don't want to have to sit down and grunt while trying to get the ratchet unstuck).

*x3 on don't wear your helmet out of T2. 

*When the race volunteers say sharp right, they mean it! (saw a guy bite it hard at Mooseman yesterday...he was ok and proceeded to finish!)

2011-06-06 8:22 AM
in reply to: #3534210

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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales

Tried to go minimalist with my bike hydration for an oly this weekend by taking my water cages off my bike, going only with my Aero-Drink.  Normally would be fine, except that it was a particularly hot day (high of 100), so I ended up paying for this on the run.  

Moral of the story:  on hot days carry a little more hydration than you need.  The pound and a half won't kill you.

2011-06-06 8:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
Shaving the night before or day of the race and then not using Body Glide or any other lubricant in said shaved area makes race day uncomfortable.
2011-06-06 11:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
When coming into T2 and you realize at the absolute last second that you forgot to take your feet out of your shoes, leave them in.  Trying to take them out, almost wrecking before the dismount line and then giving yourself a wicked calf cramp just isn't worth it.


2011-06-06 11:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
the bear - 2011-06-05 4:18 PM

TriAya - 2011-06-05 3:04 PM

the bear - 2011-06-06 4:38 AM You have a link to the Rev 3 rule? I did Rev 3 Knoxville last year and don't remember seeing a prohibition against MTBs... I know for sure IM70.3 NO has no such prohibition. I'll take your word on the others, but still looking for a reason. Seems incongruous that someone would advise against multi-colored bodily fluids and then say, more importantly, don't take an inch or two more in transition, so I thought you had another underlying reason.

http://www.rev3tri.com/!/race-info/course-info/bike.htm

Right-hand side, scroll down. Right now the Quassy info is there (of course), but this is the main bike info page for all the Rev3 races.

Now now, don't be puttin' words in the melon-goddess mouth. For one thing, I did list the technicolor body fluids first, and for another, I didn't say any of the items were more important than others.

You and I seem to have a very different idea of what "a few inches" are and how important they might be. (cough cough) That said, you have seen pictures of my old ride, yes? A road bike, an old road bike, but outfitted with cruiser bars so I could reach the handlebars. I'm thinkin' it was a little more than a couple of inches ... on both sides.

Thinkin' ain't measuring. Like I said previously, my MTB is two inches longer and no wider than my road or my tri bike. Not sure how an extra two inches of length on the MTB would be a burden to anyone. Certainly road/tri bikes of a bigger size than my 54s would take up more room than my MTB. Got to be another reason.



There is a guy who has done Iron Man WC a bunch of times, (I wish I could remember his name and blog but I am sure that someone will remember it) and has done it in a bunch of different (goofy?) ways. These include doing IMWC on a beach cruiser one year (beach cruiser, tennis shoes, no shirt?). He claims that they changed the rule to road-bikes only, the year after his feat, because the cruiser bike "disrespected the spirit of Iron Man." I don't know if he is right, but I read it on a blog so it must be true.
2011-06-06 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Pearls of Wisdom / Cautionary Tales
If riding more than 20 miles on your bike, always lube up the undercarriage. Your taint will thank you later...

Mike
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