Youth sports parents rant (Page 2)

No one is arguing against a reward for her efforts. People are arguing against her being on the relay team. I'm sure everyone on the entire swim team will get a participation medal, or a t-shirt, or a pizza party. Just like we get finshers medals (and t-shirts, and pizza) but only the fastest people get podium awards.

ETA -  at least we have to finish to get the medal

I really disagree with this.  If this is the case, why bother swimming the race.  Between 4 people, a couple on your team could have a bad day and another team can have 4 PR's in the same race.  The coaches job is to put the 4 fastest swimmers out there.

I say this with swim team experience, I swam from 3-16 yrs old.  I was in the pool twice a day with everyone else working my butt off and was never the fastest and was rarely on the relay teams.  I learned to work hard and push myself to try and get on those relay teams.  I did have a great time competiting in individual races and became a pretty good breast stroker and took pride in that.  (my 50 yard breast stroke was 2 seconds faster than my free style)

I didn't get a medal in Madison last weekend, I also didn't deserve one compared to other athletes. 

Most of my tris do not provide medals to everyone. Only Augusta did, and they ran out of them. So I gave mine to a 75 year old lady that finished after me and did not receive one. I think your point mixes apples and oranges.

As a parent my number one job is to raise my children to be responsible productive people. In the present case there is a chance to achieve that goal for the girls involved. For all we know eveyoine on the swim team gets a medal for being on the overall winning team. The bigger issue is teaching the kids that you have to obey the rules, even the ones you set up for yourself.

Apples and oranges.

The "reward" in our sport is not the finisher's medal. It would be something more along the lines of a podium spot or Kona Qualify.

A more appropriate comparison would be that just because I put in a tremendous amount of "effort" in training (and maybe my Dad is friends with the RD) I should get a spot at Kona or be able to ask Chrissie Wellington to "be a good sport" and let me race instead of her.

No I didn't miss that part, I understood it completely. thanks for double checking though (no sarcams being honest)

 but I think we both could agree that the team that should win doesn't always win.

  Hoping that the other relay doesn't have a great day while your team doesn't have a bad showing to carry the other girl is poor coaching. Just my opinion though.   And I do agree with you that it's the coach that gets to decide. But when a coach decides not to put his best team out there he opens himself up to second guessing. at least in a timed event sport where who is the fastest is usually pretty clear. 

Trust me I've been doing lots of photo work for youth sports when I'm not involved with my newphews leauges, and I'm pretty amazed how bad some parents are, and what is going on sad to say.

   (off topic) what was some of the best parents overall was a childrens tri that I shot about a month ago.

I thought it over and just had a chat with my daughter.

Honey, Mom and I think you should give Mariah your slots on the relay teams.

Why Dad?

Well, she worked hard for it and she wants to win a medal at All Stars, you can swim on the B relay team. You guys might win 4th, but no medal, sorry.

But Dad, I got up every morning this summer and went to practice.

So did Mariah.

But Dad, I stayed after practice and worked on stroke drills, flip turns and race starts. Just like you told me to do so I would get faster.

Yeah, but Mariah's Dad paid for private lessons  so she worked hard too.

But Dad, you told me if i worked hard and earned my spot, nobody can take that satisfaction of hard work and achievement away from me.

Well, maybe you should consider Mariahs feelings?

But Dad we all know what her parents did. I beat her every race, all season long.

I know honey, but there is a lesson here for you to learn.

What lesson is that Dad?

Work your butt off, make the sacrifices to improve, then give that away to someone who just didn't quite make the cut, even by cheating. You should feel a warm glow in your heart right now, ..........now go away so I can finish watching ball game....

As an ex-basketball and softball coach in youth sports, and an ex-YMCA aquatics director, I will say that swim team has been harder to deal with than the other sports.  The biggest thing I found was that you needed to have a 5 person board for each sport for it to work.  There needed to be information "in writing" up front and anything not being followed per the written "hand book" must be dealt with the same for every child and every event.

If the team rules says always the top swimmers, then it should be the top swimmers from the previous event, or the previous times from practices that are just for best times, or swim-offs depending upon what the team calls them.

If the team rules say that relay teams are coaches decision, then there should be NO influence from any parent, but that is NOT fair to the coach at all.  To make state meets individual and team events must qualify by time. 

Now I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing but ...
The finisher's medal in a triathlon is a participation award - for effort (yes that is the reward to a lot of us, I didn't mean to diminish an accomplishment of course). Qualifying time awards for speed are given to the fastest athletes (Kona, Vegas, Boston, etc.).

The comparison still stands that all of the swimmers (or triathletes) have the opportunity to participate in the meet (or race). But what is confusing is how the reward - which in this case it is the All Star Relay Team (or Kona, or Boston) - is decided.

The coach needs to communicate that clearly so there aren't any "no fair" questions like the current situation.
 

I can't almost tell if you are making a politcial point or not wit this whole message.

What are the team rules?  How many events are they allowed to swim?  2 relays and 3 individual events?  What event does your daughter swim in? I ask because you say medley, and it must be the same as the other girl.  Breast Stroke fly or back?  How old are the kids?

And two seconds is significant.  Based on what you said, I think your daughter should discuss with the coach the reasons.  It is her sport also.  You should be able ot bring it to the board openly.

I ran track where the relay team set up is similar. Our coach would set the relay team that week at practice. Every week you had to earn your spot on the team and it was never a given. So every week everyone trained and ran as hard as they could. In racing it is a straight up win or lose system and kids need to learn that. My kids are in a everyone is special and you are all winners system and really all I see for most part the kids is when they lose they freak out. They are not learning the coping skills to deal with loss or disappointment. Now I love my kids as much as any other parent and I do coddle them like any other parent but I have a saying they know when they are acting snotty or want the rules changed for  them. “You are a special unique person just like everyone else” It’s not meant to be mean but I want them to learn that just because they want something does not mean they will get it. They have to earn it.  I think the other girl has not earned the spot and there for does not deserve it plain and simple. She needed a time of X to make the team and she did not get it. Done.

I see a lot of valid points in the posts.

The pragmatic cynic (who is overdue for a vacation I might add) in me wants to add, "We have identified the level of politics. So what are you doing to train your daughter in those skills of the game/life. Even if she never partakes in the gamesmanship part of the game. She needs to be prepared to respond to those who do."

The old rower in me wants to yell, "Seat Race!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_rowing_terms

There was an old tale in MIT Crew that the coach made one guy justify his spot on the team by seat-racing him against a marshmellow, or was it a potato?

So right off the bat you lied to your daughter?

Yeah, she called me a tool and ran away from home. Guess I shouldnta taken COJ advice to heart and done what I originally thought was right..... fight to keep what you've earned.

It's been about 5 years since I officiated youth sports.  Thanks for reminding me why I detest most youth sports.

I will agree with the folks who say, "Get the rules in writing."  There should be no controversy.  It should all be spelled out in the rules prior to even joining/qualifying for the team.  

Also, did I miss the age of the kids somewhere in the post?  In my opinion, if pre-determined rules weren't established, age would matter.

btw, this sounds like a wonderful learning opportunity for your daughter.  I hope whichever path she chooses to go down, (either calmly explaining to the coach her belief in why she should have the spot, or deferring to the other girl and sharing in the team's efforts) she goes down that road with grace and maintains her self-composure.

As a parent, your response to the situation will likely impact your daughter's handling of the matter.  Good luck on keeping those emotions in check.  

Agree.

(except for the post padding... :P)

velocomp - 2011-06-23 3:24 PM o.k., so I've really loved reading this post.  Here are my two comments.

1.  If it is a rec league, then everyone should play,  or swim.  If it's a competitive leage, then the best race.

2.  For anyone who says this is just like real life, the fastest should race!  You are not living in the real world.  In the real world, the manager hires the CEOs daughter over you, who has a degree and tons of experience.

Just saying. 

Oh, and as a parent, I would rip the coach a new one then I would go to the next HOA board meeting and rip the president a new one (if I knew the pres or his wife had put the coach up to that.) 

Great point. This is what I have been thinking the whole time reading this thread. I agree that kids get very discouraged when they sit the bench the entire season and when they are young everyone should get to play regardless of ability. The purpose of a rec league is to teach kids how to play and to have fun. But, when kids get into competitive league, the purpose shifts to being the best and winning. Both purposes are good. Kids and their parents just need to decide which is best for them. I think the answer is different for everyone.

The OPs daughter is in a competitive league, so it only seems fair that if she earns her spot she should have it.  

Might listen a bit to yourself where you mentioned knowing "only one side of the story." Looks to me like you made a judgement about a situation in which you know nothing. Added stuff that did not happen and then felt a need to get righteous about it. Flip this around and apply it to your kid. Tell me that you would allow an adult to sandbag your kids efforts at any endeavor, be it sports, school, music, you name it. If you say you would let it happen to your kid and be OK with it, I think you're not being completely honest or your parenting skills might be a tad on the rusty side. Which one is it sport?

I believe it was a twinky.