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2012-05-24 9:59 AM
in reply to: #4172970

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The Natti
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM
Fred D - 2012-04-25 3:04 PM

harleyclone - 2012-04-25 3:13 PM

So Fred you are saying to live off the course?? 


Not really, I'm saying that many people can live off the course and that's the easiest and cheapest and most effective strategy for most.

Is it for you? There is no way I can possibly know that as there are people who probably need special nutrition like infinit etc.

My point is only that many people blame their cramps and poor IM performance on nutrition when the much more likely source is going to fast/hard for your fitness/training. There is no way I can know if that's applicable for you, but that is my general feeling.

I usually live off the course and haven't had many issues.


I normally don't disagree with people online...but. I have worked with thousands of athletes and "living of the course" is certainly less work, and cheaper on race day, but a recipe for disaster for most. To say that is the most effective strategy is silly talk.

What you are saying is "wing it and hope for the best"? Really?

There's lots of good products out there. But just living of the course is a crap shoot at best.


2012-05-24 11:38 AM
in reply to: #4227045

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Elite
3658
200010005001002525
Roswell, GA
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM

infinIT 1 - 2012-05-24 10:59 AM ... I have worked with thousands of athletes and "living of the course" is certainly less work, and cheaper on race day, but a recipe for disaster for most. To say that is the most effective strategy is silly talk. What you are saying is "wing it and hope for the best"? Really? There's lots of good products out there. But just living of the course is a crap shoot at best.

Are you saying that training and racing with the on course nutrition products is "a disaster for most" and "a crap shoot at best"? 

2012-05-24 12:25 PM
in reply to: #4227317

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Roswell, Georgia
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM
brown_dog_us - 2012-05-24 11:38 AM

infinIT 1 - 2012-05-24 10:59 AM ... I have worked with thousands of athletes and "living of the course" is certainly less work, and cheaper on race day, but a recipe for disaster for most. To say that is the most effective strategy is silly talk. What you are saying is "wing it and hope for the best"? Really? There's lots of good products out there. But just living of the course is a crap shoot at best.

Are you saying that training and racing with the on course nutrition products is "a disaster for most" and "a crap shoot at best"? 

I think something got mis-interpreted somewhere.
Fred was saying that living off the course (and training with the stuff prior, I assumed) works for some people. This is a valid statement. 

If someone has never trained with what's offered on the course and decides to rely on it come race day--- definitely risky. But I don't think that's what was implied.

2012-05-24 2:02 PM
in reply to: #4227045

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by Fred D 2012-05-24 2:05 PM
2012-05-24 2:07 PM
in reply to: #4227431

Subject: ...
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2012-05-24 2:25 PM
in reply to: #4227045

Champion
9600
500020002000500100
Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM
infinIT 1 - 2012-05-24 8:59 AM

Fred D - 2012-04-25 3:04 PM

harleyclone - 2012-04-25 3:13 PM

So Fred you are saying to live off the course?? 


Not really, I'm saying that many people can live off the course and that's the easiest and cheapest and most effective strategy for most.

Is it for you? There is no way I can possibly know that as there are people who probably need special nutrition like infinit etc.

My point is only that many people blame their cramps and poor IM performance on nutrition when the much more likely source is going to fast/hard for your fitness/training. There is no way I can know if that's applicable for you, but that is my general feeling.

I usually live off the course and haven't had many issues.


I normally don't disagree with people online...but. I have worked with thousands of athletes and "living of the course" is certainly less work, and cheaper on race day, but a recipe for disaster for most. To say that is the most effective strategy is silly talk.

What you are saying is "wing it and hope for the best"? Really?

There's lots of good products out there. But just living of the course is a crap shoot at best.


Wow, I am actually embarassed for you, Michael.


2012-05-24 2:44 PM
in reply to: #4172297

Subject: ...
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2012-05-24 3:32 PM
in reply to: #4227045

Regular
641
50010025
Chicago
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM

infinIT 1 - 2012-05-24 9:59 AM
Fred D - 2012-04-25 3:04 PM
harleyclone - 2012-04-25 3:13 PM So Fred you are saying to live off the course?? 
Not really, I'm saying that many people can live off the course and that's the easiest and cheapest and most effective strategy for most. Is it for you? There is no way I can possibly know that as there are people who probably need special nutrition like infinit etc. My point is only that many people blame their cramps and poor IM performance on nutrition when the much more likely source is going to fast/hard for your fitness/training. There is no way I can know if that's applicable for you, but that is my general feeling. I usually live off the course and haven't had many issues.
I normally don't disagree with people online...but. I have worked with thousands of athletes and "living of the course" is certainly less work, and cheaper on race day, but a recipe for disaster for most. To say that is the most effective strategy is silly talk. What you are saying is "wing it and hope for the best"? Really? There's lots of good products out there. But just living of the course is a crap shoot at best.

I think someone has been drinking the Kool-Aid.....er, Infinit.

2012-05-24 3:44 PM
in reply to: #4227696

Master
2010
2000
Falls Church, VA
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM

bryancd - 2012-05-24 3:25 PM
infinIT 1 - 2012-05-24 8:59 AM
Fred D - 2012-04-25 3:04 PM
harleyclone - 2012-04-25 3:13 PM So Fred you are saying to live off the course?? 
Not really, I'm saying that many people can live off the course and that's the easiest and cheapest and most effective strategy for most. Is it for you? There is no way I can possibly know that as there are people who probably need special nutrition like infinit etc. My point is only that many people blame their cramps and poor IM performance on nutrition when the much more likely source is going to fast/hard for your fitness/training. There is no way I can know if that's applicable for you, but that is my general feeling. I usually live off the course and haven't had many issues.
I normally don't disagree with people online...but. I have worked with thousands of athletes and "living of the course" is certainly less work, and cheaper on race day, but a recipe for disaster for most. To say that is the most effective strategy is silly talk. What you are saying is "wing it and hope for the best"? Really? There's lots of good products out there. But just living of the course is a crap shoot at best.
Wow, I am actually embarassed for you, Michael.

word.

I used to have alot of respect for Infinit. That has just gone out the window.



Edited by Nipper 2012-05-24 3:45 PM
2012-05-24 4:56 PM
in reply to: #4227883

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM

I train on infinit, but race on the course provided fare...

I switch probably a month prior to make sure I'm good with it.

2012-05-24 9:48 PM
in reply to: #4172297

New user
60
2525
Oz
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM

I have been using Infinit for the last 18 months and it's the first product I've used that hasn't churned my stomach during use.

I have no issue with people training with and then using the course issue drinks etc but here's the reason I don't.

I have 4 races in the the next 10 months, a 150k adventure race, 2 x 70.3's and Melbourne IM. each one of those races has different sponsors, hence different drinks on the course.

I just don't like the idea of changing drinks after every race and hoping my stomach copes. For me it's easier and more beneficial to stay with the one product.



2012-05-24 9:58 PM
in reply to: #4172297

Regular
61
2525
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM
Bryan, Have you tried the GU Roctane drink in more concentrated dosages - standard serving is 240 calories - I'm wondering if you or anyone else has experimented with say 400+ calories per bike bottle using the roctane drink mix? Have tried the single serves on shorter rides and would like to use it in an upcoming HIM.
2012-05-25 6:47 AM
in reply to: #4228296

Champion
9600
500020002000500100
Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM
AUSSIEEXPAT - 2012-05-24 8:58 PM

Bryan, Have you tried the GU Roctane drink in more concentrated dosages - standard serving is 240 calories - I'm wondering if you or anyone else has experimented with say 400+ calories per bike bottle using the roctane drink mix? Have tried the single serves on shorter rides and would like to use it in an upcoming HIM.


I have tried the Roctane drink but it still has a different ingredient profile then the gels. I would be cautious trying to double the concentration by adding less water to it, could cause GI distress.
2012-05-25 12:11 PM
in reply to: #4172297

Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM
Just completed imtx on infinit and water only. Pm me if you want exact details of mix and usage, but I didn't puke out there, or have gi distress.
2012-05-25 3:18 PM
in reply to: #4172297

Champion
10471
500050001001001001002525
Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM
I used some Infinit during IMTX last weekend on the bike course.

Bike, per hour:
1- Uncrustable (220)
2- Uncrustable (220)
3- Uncrustable (220) (roughly 45 miles- I am slow)

I realized in training that I needed to get solids in early on in the ride, so I wouldn't get a headache or dizzy later on.

4- Infinit (my mix is 250 calories per serving) (60 miles)
5- 20 oz Coke in special needs (I did this in training too), some gel, some Infinit (75 miles)

My stomach started to feel a little queasy at this point, so I backed off the nutrition and just took in water.

6- Some gel, some Infinit
7- Some gel, some Infinit

I had packed 3 hours of Infinit in a bottle, and I didn't take it all in. I maybe had 1/2 a serving left. I had packed 2 gel flasks, that held 4 servings of gel in them. I took in maybe 1 gel flask.

With all of that said, I felt fine and my stomach settled. I didn't feel like I was hungry or needing more nutrition coming off the bike. In fact, I didn't take in a gel on the run until 1 hour in. I didn't want to vomit. But I really did feel fine.

Now, at both IM's I have done, this is how my nutrition shakes out... and it is not how it goes in training. Two different beasts.
2012-05-27 4:32 PM
in reply to: #4172297

Master
1770
10005001001002525
Bedford, MA
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM

I think that a combination of on-course nutrition and nutrition that you carry is maybe the best way to go. Most races will tell you in advance what type(s) of race-day nutrition they will use, giving you a chance to try it out in race simulation(s).

I personally began using Infinit last year, and for my one and only IM used two 600 calorie concentrated bottles, then on-course water for the remainder of the bike, and on-course nutrition for the run. For a HIM I use one 800 calorie bottle of Infinit (which I sip every 4 miles) for the bike, then use on-course water and nutrition for the remainder of the day. It's worked so far.



2012-05-27 5:02 PM
in reply to: #4172437

The Original
7834
5000200050010010010025
Raleigh/Durham
Subject: RE: INFINIT Nutrition on IM
harleyclone - 2012-04-25 1:45 PM

I believe Perpeteum did not work for me because I mixed my bottles at 4:30am and then had 2 spare bottles in my special needs bags with powder to mix with water once I needed them.  I got to teh bike at 8:30 am, meaning the Perpeteum had already been mixed for 4 hours and it was sunny that day and starting to heat up.  I have used Perpeteum in the past with good results in shorter races (even a marathon) but for some reason I did not care for the taste of the mixture on this day therefore stopped taking it about half way through the first lap on the bike (bad decision).  I was using water and gels and then started to cramp up midway on the 2nd lap.  By then my stomach was not happy with me and all I could muster was something that was ice cold (water and Perform).  I admit I didn't have the most solid nutrition plan going into the race but have used Perpeteum numerous times, even on my 80 to 100 miles rides.  For some reason, it didn't sit well with me.  If you talk to Hammer, they will tell you that it goes bad about 4 hrs after mixed in warmer temperatures.

 

I guess I am looking for something that doesn't get skunky right away.  I have also used Perpeteum solids on my longer runs with good results but the amount of them that you have to take to get enough calories is somewhat a pain in the butt. 

I've used Perpeteum for 2 out of 3 of my IM's.  I found it worked well for me, nutrition wise.  But you're right- it gets warm really quick and it's hard to choke down.  I think I was just used to drinking it warm since I live in the south and trained in the heat, but it was difficult to want to drink it.   What I found that works well was to freeze the bottles (tried it in training and it worked so I was able to do it for the race) so it wouldn't get so icky so quickly in hotter temperatures and that seemed to help.  Usually for the IM the bottles on my bike would be almost thawed by the time I got to the bike portion.  And the ones I stashed in SN were already unfrozen by that point, but cool enough to still taste ok 1/2 way on the bike course.

The biggest problem I had with Perpeteum was being very gassy and bloated for the run.  I had major belching and GI issues as well.  I had to drink PLENTY of water to help break it up in my stomach which helped, but never elminated the problem.  I finally figured out that the soy protein in the Perpetuem was causing all my GI issues.

After that I decided to mix up my own sports drink.  I used GU2O since I handle that best solo, and added in my whey protein that I used in protein shakes.  And I must say- that combination tasted pretty darn good!  Orange flavored GU2O + vanilla whey protein= orange creamsicle.  What worked well is that I could adjust the amount of protein I needed on my own for each ride, as well as the concentration of the GU.

I have thought about switching to Infinit, but so far the Gu2O and whey protein mixture works well for me and sits good in my stomach.  And it's a heck of a lot cheaper and I can adjust the mixture for each long ride according to the duration/weather conditions.  I can mix the bottles different as well- timing a bottle with more protein or GU (if it got hotter so I'd get more electrolytes)  throughout the ride, so that I wasn't bombarding my system all at once with the amount of protein.  By doing this, I get the same good performance results as I did with Perpeteum, minus all the GI issues and nasty tasting once it gets warm.  So I prefer to have the freedom to adjust on my own and not have just a set fomrula for every ride every day.

Definitely try different things.  Everyone is different and what sounds weird for one person may be the "diamond in the rough" for someone else.

Also one more idea- you can try Carbo Pro if you're looking for an easy way to get extra calories.  It's tastless and basically it's just extra cals (no additional electrolytes)  to add into a sports drink.  You can always try mixing that into your sports drink if you want to cut back on taking in solids or gels on the bike.  Another favorite product of mine that gives you more nutrition options!!!

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