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2012-06-26 6:01 PM

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Subject: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)

   I have been doing triathlons for a few years now and love biking.  I think biking could be my strong point as I usually do minimal biking throughout the year (due to winter in PA) and yet tend to do well in it.  I have loved biking since I was a kid. 

   I tried my first road race back in may and loved it.  It was a 45 mile course and I think there were about 300+ participants.  I have been thinking about getting into more bike racing as I think I could train better in one sport instead of three. 

   But wow, is it ever confusing!  I think I am starting to understand the CATs, how do you move up?  What is with all of the different race types?  (criterium, TT, road race, stage race????)  Will I have to get a whole new road bike if I get serious into bike racing or could I just convert my tri bike by changing the handlebars around?  Thanks a ton!



2012-06-26 7:15 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
Kermat89 - 2012-06-26 4:01 PM

   I have been doing triathlons for a few years now and love biking.  I think biking could be my strong point as I usually do minimal biking throughout the year (due to winter in PA) and yet tend to do well in it.  I have loved biking since I was a kid. 

   I tried my first road race back in may and loved it.  It was a 45 mile course and I think there were about 300+ participants.  I have been thinking about getting into more bike racing as I think I could train better in one sport instead of three. 

   But wow, is it ever confusing!  I think I am starting to understand the CATs, how do you move up?  What is with all of the different race types?  (criterium, TT, road race, stage race????)  Will I have to get a whole new road bike if I get serious into bike racing or could I just convert my tri bike by changing the handlebars around?  Thanks a ton!

It starts out very confusing, but as you learn more about it you'll find it's actually very well designed and conducive to competition.

First thing to know - it's not a 'participant' sport. Nobody starts a bike race with the goal of 'finishing'.  Some people may SAY they do, but they don't.

Second thing to know - there are 5 places in a bike race: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, in the group, OTB (off the back). If you're not in the podium, you say you finished with the group. Unless you were dropped - then you were OTB. Nobody cares if you came in 4th or 23rd, you were 'with the group' - unless 23rd was OTB. One caveat - placing matters for upgrade points (more on that later).

Third thing to know - a 'bike race' is sanctioned by the USAC or other sanctioning body. If you were in a race with 300 people, it was not a 'race' (because beginner races can't have fields that big without special permission). It was an organized ride, possibly a 'timed event'. The people at the front may have been racing, and there may have been placings, but it wasn't a 'race'. This is a common mistake, and if you try to correct a non-racer when they say it you look like a elitist jerk. Like I probably do right now Racers will understand though.

Fourth thing to know - There are 'masters' and 'categories'. Masters start at age 35 and will be in either 5 or 10 year increments. Sometimes they start at 30, but not very often. Do NOT mistake 'Masters' in bike racing with 'Age Groupers' in Tri. Masters racers are often former P12 (Pro, cat 1, cat 2) racers who just like to put the hurt on other people. They are not slower until you get to the 55+ range and even then they can make you hurt. Then there are categories. Starting at cat 5, you move up the categories (Cat 5 -> 4 takes 10 mass start races, then it takes points which are earned based on finishing position in mass start races).

Fifth thing to know - There are several different types of races. Crits (small course usually 1 mile or shorter, often square or figure 8 shaped - usually timed instead of distance/laps e.g. 40 minutes + 5 laps), Circuit (like a longer crit with a route from 2-5 miles long, but based on number of laps), road (what you probably think of as a classic bike race but could also be a couple laps of a big circuit), time trial (like a triathlon without the annoying swim at the beginning or run where everyone passes you), hill climb (really just a short road race up a hill). There are also stage races (a combination of 2 or more of the above where each stage counts as a race, the racers must race in each prior stage to start the next stage, and the overall winner has the shortest time) and omniums (similar to a stage race, except stage winners often get 'points', you can race in any of the races individually if you want - though you can't win the overall omnium, and the overall winner is the one with the most omnium points at the end of the race). If you want to road race in the states, don't be afraid of crits. They have a bad rep but they are a lot of fun and the vast majority of races are crits. Some people call crits the 'crack' of road racing.

Sixth thing to know - People tend to start 'specializing' after being in the sport for a while. Everyone coming from a tri background thinks they are natural time trialists and their strategy in the first race it to 'leave the pack behind'. This often end up not being the case after more time racing. You may find you always have a good kick at the end of a race, no matter how tired and you end up being a sprinter. You may find you're light but put out good power (power-to-weight) and end up being a good climber. You may be good at time trialling and breaking away. You get my drift. You often don't find these things out until you've been racing a few years.

Seventh thing to know - bike racing is a team sport. In the lower cats (4 and 5) you won't see much teamwork and sometimes have teammates working against each other. For example, I dropped the race leader of a stage race on a climb, and was joined by several other people. My teammate and a friend who was with me in the break's teammate didn't want to miss out, so they worked really hard to bridge up to us, towing the race leader with them. NOT good teamwork... As you move up the categories you'll see teams working together and it brings a whole new look to a bike race.

Eighth thing to know - There is etiquette in racing. You can't race in another team's kit (uniform). Don't show up too a race wearing a Radio Shack kit. You're not fooling anybody, it's against the rules and you'll be 'that guy'. People do it, and usually they are allowed to race after getting razzed by the race director (RD), but it's bad form. Also, don't pin your number on upside down or on the wrong side. They will actually delay the start of the race to make you fix it (and you'll be 'that guy' again - and yes, I've been 'that guy'). Wear gloves and socks. Gloves offer some protection and there's no transition so no excuse not to wear socks. You get where I'm going with this.

Ninth thing to know - nobody cares about your bike. You have to ride a road bike with no aero bars (except in TT's) but otherwise nobody cares. One caveat - if you show up with an old bike that has toe clips and down-tube shifters, you'd better be strong as hell because people will notice that. You'll get some looks, but if the view is of your butt while you leave the group behind you won't care. Race the nicest but cheapest bike you can afford to replace. You will eventually need to replace it. Hopefully it will be due to old age instead of a crash but you never know.

Tenth thing - You will eventually crash. Most likely it will just be road rash, but it could be worse. Be prepared and accept that it will happen. It's part of racing (part of biking really).

Racing is a lot of fun and very addictive. I still do triathlons, but I consider myself a bike racer that does tri's, not the other way around. Check out USA cycling's web site, they have some good info there. I'm sure others on the board will also help out.

2012-06-26 8:43 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
Wow, thanks a ton.  that really helps a lot and I appreciate you putting in the time to break it down for me.  Another thing I like so far about just cycling is that it seems like I recover faster (running usually takes me longer to recover from).
2012-06-27 10:17 AM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)

Monkey claw summed it up really well.  Also the thing you will notice is that no matter how hard you train there is always someone faster then you are.   Its an amazing feeling when you go out and are able to maintain sprints at 27-30 miles an hour for like 20-25 seconds and then the Cat 1 guys hold that for an entire race.  Sickening.

 

Enjoy the racing and welcome to the dark side.

2012-06-27 11:50 AM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)

Kermat89 - 2012-06-26 6:43 PM Wow, thanks a ton.  that really helps a lot and I appreciate you putting in the time to break it down for me.  Another thing I like so far about just cycling is that it seems like I recover faster (running usually takes me longer to recover from).

My pleasure I find recovery to be different from running too. Part of it is because with running the issue is often joint-related, while with riding it's usually muscular. You look young, so you probably will recover quickly. I'm at the ripe old age of 42 and it takes me a little longer - at least that's my excuse. 

Something I'm still trying to master is form. Sometimes you'll find you feel really strong, and other times you feel like you should be in the "citizen's" race. With bike racing, it's common to race every weekend for parts of the season. Sometimes even twice or three times in a day. It's nearly impossible to be strong all the time. This is different from triathlon, where there are usually several weeks between races.

2012-06-27 1:02 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
MonkeyClaw - 2012-06-27 9:50 AM

Something I'm still trying to master is form. Sometimes you'll find you feel really strong, and other times you feel like you should be in the "citizen's" race. With bike racing, it's common to race every weekend for parts of the season. Sometimes even twice or three times in a day. It's nearly impossible to be strong all the time. This is different from triathlon, where there are usually several weeks between races.

True that!



2012-07-03 7:12 AM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
This is an awesome thread for any newbie cyclist.  Should be a sticky.  Smile
2012-07-03 7:22 AM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
I agree, a very well written post.
2012-07-03 2:00 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
Yeah, about that crashing. I'll say it again, it is not "if" but rather "when". I crashed out of a RR Saturday. Nice road rash along my side and a couple of stiches in my chin for good measure. Chasing a couple of guys on a break and cooked it too hard into a sweeping lefthander on a decent. Ouch. But the important thing is the bike is ok.
2012-07-04 7:53 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
Good post, but remember-don't show up amongst them talking about "biking", better to call it cycling or bike racing,  bikers are fat bearded guys on Harleys, refer  to yourself and them as cyclists.
2012-07-16 6:13 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
N the other tdf threads, folks have talked about the"GC". What does it stand for?


2012-07-16 7:10 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
As in "So how do you catch up? You drop the other GCs on a climb, make it up in the Time Trial, or the Peloton just sets a killer pace and you drop the yellow. It happens, but not often. "
2012-07-16 10:21 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)

kofian - 2012-07-16 4:13 PM N the other tdf threads, folks have talked about the"GC". What does it stand for?

This is a stage race or (less common) omnium term for 'general classification'. The GC contenders are the ones who are projected to have the lowest overall time at the beginning of the race, or the ones that actually have the lowest time as the race progresses. For example, in this year's TdF Frank Schleck was thought to be a GC contender. As the race progressed, he was no longer considered a contender because of the time he lost in the early stages.

In an omnium, it will refer to the favorites to have the most points at the end of the race or the ones that actually have the most points as the races progress.

2012-07-22 8:57 AM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)

I have to ask because I just don't get it. In team racing, how is it that your team mate pulls you up a climb or through a stage?

I get how your team helps you out, keeps you protected, drafting, runs supplies... but I do not get how your team mate paces you.... team leader has 4 team mates...each one "pulls" him up a long climb till he cracks, next one takes over, next one... what is the help? Tejay had to pull up a couple of times to get Evans, Froom did the same for Whiggins. Attacks would come, Froom would "pace" Whiggins back to the lead.

I mean drafting is not the issue. These are all pros and the leaders are the strongest on the team, so how is it they can't pace themselves, or how are they aided by having team mates in front of them?

2012-07-23 5:43 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)

Thanks Monkey Claw - that's great.  I feel better informed too!

 

2012-07-26 2:13 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
powerman - 2012-07-22 6:57 AM

I have to ask because I just don't get it. In team racing, how is it that your team mate pulls you up a climb or through a stage?

I get how your team helps you out, keeps you protected, drafting, runs supplies... but I do not get how your team mate paces you.... team leader has 4 team mates...each one "pulls" him up a long climb till he cracks, next one takes over, next one... what is the help? Tejay had to pull up a couple of times to get Evans, Froom did the same for Whiggins. Attacks would come, Froom would "pace" Whiggins back to the lead.

I mean drafting is not the issue. These are all pros and the leaders are the strongest on the team, so how is it they can't pace themselves, or how are they aided by having team mates in front of them?

There are several advantages to having teammates with you during a climb.

1) Drafting. Even at low speeds, there is a drafting effect. Granted the effect is lower the slower you go but a savings of 10 w is useful on a long climb. Just because the leader is the 'strongest' doesn't mean they are the strongest climber. Depending on the race, they could be the strongest sprinter or strongest TT'er.

2) Pacing. In a climb, there are 2 fears. 1) that you will go too hard and blow up; and 2) that someone is going to set a pace too hard and send you off the back. By putting your team at the front, your team can dictate the pace. Keeping the pace 'uncomfortable' discourages attacks while not riding the team leader off the back.

3) Covering. With more than one teammate, attacks can be covered when someone decides to go. Sending a teammate to cover an attack can be discouraging to the attacker. In the mean time, the teammate left with the leader can up the pace slightly to catch the attacker.

4) Counterattacks. Have the teammate attack, and you follow the chaser. When the chaser catches the teammate, you counterattack. Eventually the chaser will get tired and fall off the back.

5) Blocking. What happens when your teammate in front picks up the pace and your teammate behind doesn't? Gaps start to form. Now the people behind need to cover the gaps to catch back up - bringing your teammate back too. Very tiring.

6) Mental 1. Nothing makes me work my butt off harder than having someone work their butt off for me.

7) Mental 2. Nothing sucks more than being the only guy in a red jersey surrounded by guys in black jerseys that all look the same. Especially when they start doing some of the above moves.

8) Mental 3. It sure is nice to just follow someone's wheel and let them set the pace. Follow their wheel, follow their wheel, ouch this hurts, follow their wheel...

Much of this is applicable to non-climbing too.

Related to this, it's considered 'impolite' to break into another team's train or paceline. It happens, and if you are helping set the pace without disrupting then it's often fine. If it's a leadout to a sprint, you may find yourself knocked out of the paceline quite aggressively (see Tyler Farrar's crash in stage 5 of the 2012 TdF). You might also find the other team stops doing the work and you're at the front early, or you are boxed in.



2012-07-28 12:17 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)

Thanks MC... I will just have to accept the fact it is true. Not that I am arguing... I'm really talking about something I know nothing about so I just don't know. I have never road raced on a team.

I can totally see the mental points. However, me being a solitary cyclist, I just figured the guy in front of you beating you was motivation enough.

I also figured these guys ride 20,000 miles a year and know full well what pace they can hold and for how long. And whether they need to hold to fight on a different stage tomorrow.

But it's all good... we are social animals and having "friends" around is good. I think it is subtle and does not easily translate to me watching something I have never participated. Obviously, I can listen to the comentators, but sometimes it just seems more of a dramatic enhancment instead of a solid tactical move.

2012-09-06 5:36 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)

Try to look into local teams, they are a huge source of information and experience. It will give you a good foundation when you start to race. Everyone is fast until they start racing! Geetting beat will make you faster!

My team reimburses for my kits as well as covers my entry fees, I also get deep discounts on anything cycling related. Tris were getting way too expensive on my own, now I race crits for free! USAC has a ton of info on how upgrades work, the different types of racing,etc. Click Here. Save your money until you decide what type of racing you like and then find something that will suit your riding preference and style. USAC has standards for bike specs, dont show up on a tri bike unless its a time trial. If you cant find a team start going to different races and talk to people, go to some clinics, talk to LBS,good luck!

2012-11-08 10:33 AM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)

Monkey Claw, you are the man!  I've decided to go bike racing and this was helpful.

I've ridden in groups with some cat3/4 guys and they all tell me to get out the 5s quickly because it's dangerous.  Do you agree that in a 5 race (assuming you are strong enough) that you should basically just try to stay in front the entire time, not lead but in the front pack and try to position in the top handful of guys?  I'd assume there are a lot of really strong riders in the 5s too since you can't upgrade right away so you get a pretty disparate range of strength mixed with the novice handling abilities.  I'm told I have the power to hang but don't want to make any major tactical mistakes.  Do you always have to do 10 races before moving up?  What if you win or podium a couple, then you can you move up sooner?  Not that I think I'm going to win

2012-11-11 2:52 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)

Glad I could help Be sure to post a race reports!

The nice thing about the 5's is that they limit the number of riders to 50. There are issues with handling and riding in packs, so I liked to get to the front to avoid the riff-raff. Crits (esp. 5's) start fast so be ready to clip in quickly, or pedal without being clipped in on one side. You can get near the front while others are messing around trying to get clipped in and dropped from the start. It's worth lining up early to get a good position - ideally in the front so you're not stuck waiting for the people who can't clip in.

Everyone gets the same advice - get near the front without being at the front. It's sound advice, but not always possible. The peloton tends to rotate, moving up on the outsides and back in the middle. When you're in the middle, you'll see everyone moving up on the outside and it will be difficult to get outside to move up. Later in the race, you need to fight for position even more as others try to get to the top 5. Be sure you are comfortable negotiating the pack, and keep your eyes out for sketchy riders. Don't follow any sketchy riders!

Different federations handle upgrades differently. Some chapters allow upgrades after a few strong results, while others (like AZ) won't let you upgrade until you get your 10 finishes, regardless of results. I like that everyone needs 10 races to upgrade, because then they have race and pack experience before making it to the 4's. When I was a 5, I hated it.

As an aside, don't be afraid to take a pull at the front. Make it short, and don't burn any matches (unless you're trying a break, of course). Races tend to start fast, then slow down. When they slow down, it can get dangerous as the group bunches up. When I see this, either I or a teammate will go to the front and speed up the pace just to string it out a bit.

The 5's are a great place to try different things. Try a break, try to tailgun, try to sprint, etc. Don't worry about making tactical mistakes - it's a continual learning process. If you make a tactical mistake, you're ahead of most other racers - at least you had some tactics! Most cat 5 tactics are a) break away because you don't trust your sprint (usually at the beginning - hence the fast start and rarely works); or b) hang on until the end and sprint for the finish. You never really know what your skills are until you try different things.

Good luck and have fun!

2012-11-14 6:31 AM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
acumenjay - 2012-11-08 11:33 AM

Monkey Claw, you are the man!  I've decided to go bike racing and this was helpful.

I've ridden in groups with some cat3/4 guys and they all tell me to get out the 5s quickly because it's dangerous.  Do you agree that in a 5 race (assuming you are strong enough) that you should basically just try to stay in front the entire time, not lead but in the front pack and try to position in the top handful of guys?  I'd assume there are a lot of really strong riders in the 5s too since you can't upgrade right away so you get a pretty disparate range of strength mixed with the novice handling abilities.  I'm told I have the power to hang but don't want to make any major tactical mistakes.  Do you always have to do 10 races before moving up?  What if you win or podium a couple, then you can you move up sooner?  Not that I think I'm going to win

 

I hear people say this about cat5s being more dangerous, but I don't think it's true.  If you drop a cat1/2 guy in a cat5 pack, that rider will be less likely to crash than he would in a higher category race.  Cat5 races are slower and riders give wide berth to each other.  Yes, the other riders have poorer handling skills, but if you can't safely get around a bad situation in a cat5 pack (where there are slower speeds and more escape routes), then it will be even more dangerous to put yourself in a situation where the packs are faster and leave much less space between one another.

As for upgrades.  The rule is 10 races, regardless of results. Sometimes upgrade coordinators will be leniant in giving upgrades.  Sometimes riders will go ahead and try putting in for it if they have good results.  Either way, there are plenty of races that are cat4/5, so if you get antsy to race with 4's before the upgrade, the opportunities are usually there.  Usually, however, you can't do masters until you are out of the cat5s, so if that's an interest, then that's a good reason to get those races in and move up.



2012-11-14 9:44 AM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
2012-11-15 9:53 AM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
MonkeyClaw - 2012-07-26 3:13 PM
powerman - 2012-07-22 6:57 AM

I have to ask because I just don't get it. In team racing, how is it that your team mate pulls you up a climb or through a stage?

I get how your team helps you out, keeps you protected, drafting, runs supplies... but I do not get how your team mate paces you.... team leader has 4 team mates...each one "pulls" him up a long climb till he cracks, next one takes over, next one... what is the help? Tejay had to pull up a couple of times to get Evans, Froom did the same for Whiggins. Attacks would come, Froom would "pace" Whiggins back to the lead.

I mean drafting is not the issue. These are all pros and the leaders are the strongest on the team, so how is it they can't pace themselves, or how are they aided by having team mates in front of them?

There are several advantages to having teammates with you during a climb.

1) Drafting. Even at low speeds, there is a drafting effect. Granted the effect is lower the slower you go but a savings of 10 w is useful on a long climb. Just because the leader is the 'strongest' doesn't mean they are the strongest climber. Depending on the race, they could be the strongest sprinter or strongest TT'er.

2) Pacing. In a climb, there are 2 fears. 1) that you will go too hard and blow up; and 2) that someone is going to set a pace too hard and send you off the back. By putting your team at the front, your team can dictate the pace. Keeping the pace 'uncomfortable' discourages attacks while not riding the team leader off the back.

3) Covering. With more than one teammate, attacks can be covered when someone decides to go. Sending a teammate to cover an attack can be discouraging to the attacker. In the mean time, the teammate left with the leader can up the pace slightly to catch the attacker.

4) Counterattacks. Have the teammate attack, and you follow the chaser. When the chaser catches the teammate, you counterattack. Eventually the chaser will get tired and fall off the back.

5) Blocking. What happens when your teammate in front picks up the pace and your teammate behind doesn't? Gaps start to form. Now the people behind need to cover the gaps to catch back up - bringing your teammate back too. Very tiring.

6) Mental 1. Nothing makes me work my butt off harder than having someone work their butt off for me.

7) Mental 2. Nothing sucks more than being the only guy in a red jersey surrounded by guys in black jerseys that all look the same. Especially when they start doing some of the above moves.

8) Mental 3. It sure is nice to just follow someone's wheel and let them set the pace. Follow their wheel, follow their wheel, ouch this hurts, follow their wheel...

Much of this is applicable to non-climbing too.

Related to this, it's considered 'impolite' to break into another team's train or paceline. It happens, and if you are helping set the pace without disrupting then it's often fine. If it's a leadout to a sprint, you may find yourself knocked out of the paceline quite aggressively (see Tyler Farrar's crash in stage 5 of the 2012 TdF). You might also find the other team stops doing the work and you're at the front early, or you are boxed in.

Been there one too many times.  It definately is a boost.  Close the gap.. close the gap.

2013-04-12 4:35 PM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
Thanks Monkey Claw (and others) for the info!  First road race and time trial as a Cat 5 tomorrow; stoked!
2014-03-06 11:35 AM
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Subject: RE: School me on road racing please (someone who has plenty of time, the more detailed the better)
Originally posted by dredwards

acumenjay - 2012-11-08 11:33 AM

Monkey Claw, you are the man!  I've decided to go bike racing and this was helpful.

I've ridden in groups with some cat3/4 guys and they all tell me to get out the 5s quickly because it's dangerous.  Do you agree that in a 5 race (assuming you are strong enough) that you should basically just try to stay in front the entire time, not lead but in the front pack and try to position in the top handful of guys?  I'd assume there are a lot of really strong riders in the 5s too since you can't upgrade right away so you get a pretty disparate range of strength mixed with the novice handling abilities.  I'm told I have the power to hang but don't want to make any major tactical mistakes.  Do you always have to do 10 races before moving up?  What if you win or podium a couple, then you can you move up sooner?  Not that I think I'm going to win

 

I hear people say this about cat5s being more dangerous, but I don't think it's true.  If you drop a cat1/2 guy in a cat5 pack, that rider will be less likely to crash than he would in a higher category race.  Cat5 races are slower and riders give wide berth to each other.  Yes, the other riders have poorer handling skills, but if you can't safely get around a bad situation in a cat5 pack (where there are slower speeds and more escape routes), then it will be even more dangerous to put yourself in a situation where the packs are faster and leave much less space between one another.

As for upgrades.  The rule is 10 races, regardless of results. Sometimes upgrade coordinators will be leniant in giving upgrades.  Sometimes riders will go ahead and try putting in for it if they have good results.  Either way, there are plenty of races that are cat4/5, so if you get antsy to race with 4's before the upgrade, the opportunities are usually there.  Usually, however, you can't do masters until you are out of the cat5s, so if that's an interest, then that's a good reason to get those races in and move up.





reading through the thread, and have to laugh. Jay did his first (i believe) crit this past weekend and won the cat5 race, then headed to Disney with his family a couple hours later. So here is a backdoor congrats to the guy who "Didn't think he could win".

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