Is Phelps the greatest Olympian ever? (Page 2)

Wow... seems we are picking apart a made up title with zero criteria to it's merit.

OK...so I guess I'm guilty of picking apart meaningless things at times.

There is no such "title". It was not awarded to him on a podium. A BROADCASTER said it to sum up his accomplishment at winning the most medals of anyone ever... a record he broke that stood for 48 years... from an Olympian in a sport that was "easy" to rack up that amount of medals (and a sport that is impossible to do it in now)... and some one good enough to do it.

Who is the greatest pound for pound boxer? Who is the greatest home run hitter ever? Anything "greatest ever" is subjective.

However... does Phelps belong in the conversation? ABSO-FLIPIN-LUTELY. Look at his complete dominance. Look at his record count. Sure you can't compare different sports, but you compare him to his peers, and for a very long time he has not had any. 15 of those 19 are gold... are you kidding me?

You can bring other names into this discussion, but you can never take the guy with the most medals and the most complete domination of his sport off. Period.

How much consideration do you give to the fact that 4 of the top 10 most decorated Olympic athletes are swimmers?  

Surely that must, to some degree, factor into the conversation about swimming being more geared toward more opportunity. 

I don't know.  Pound for pound?  Pacquio?  Not a heavy weight...  If you gave him 50% more weight to match Ali AND 50% more ability and smarts?  Yikes

So you talking about potential? Of course the Gold medal swimmers are the best, because they are out there doing it. Could other athletes do better with better training? Perhaps, but they don't. Heck, there could be some kid working at Chick-Fil-A who has no desire to swim but could be better than Phelps with proper training. My step son has an awesome golf swing. I think he could do very well if he focused on golf, but he doesn't like it very much. So maybe he could be the best if he were better trained, but that will never happen so it's a moot point.

I think you guys forget alot of what phelps did was in a suit that is now illegal. With that in mind I go with mark spitz as the best swimmer because he did it like this....

a) Everyone else had the same suit and b) he did it in 2004 (6 golds, 2 bronze's)as well without any super high tech suit. In fact I wore the same suit he did just the year before and it didn't do much for me at all.

He does not need 50% more weight... that is what "pound for pound" is. Current, yes... ever... uhhh, that's tough.

On a side note... so I was watching last night. Bob says "Worlds Greatest Olympian ever". They had the tribute piece to roll. He asks Phelps about it... Now on todays coverage, every time they mention Phelps it is the more literally correct... "Most decorated Olympian ever". Seems somebody was not comfortable with the other claim.

Paavo Nurmi.  Over the course of 3 Olympics, he raced in 12 events, won 9 golds and 3 silvers.  In '24, he won gold in the 5k 90 minutes after winning gold in the 1500m.  His country wouldn't let him compete in the 10k that year because they thought he was already in too many races and would get worn out, so he lined up on the warm up track just outside the stadium and unofficially raced it anyway.  And won by 40 seconds. 

At one point he simultaneously held world records for the mile, 1500m, 3k, 5k, and 10k distances, something no one else has ever even come close to achieving.

I KNOW what pound for pound means. 

I was compairing him to Ali directly.  So are you trying to say that if he fought Ali, he WOULDN'T need 50% more weight?  Of course he would, or Ali would need 50% less to be in the same weight class.

Pound for pound is obvously just a phrase as if talent is related to weight.  If that's the case, ad 50% more weight got you 50% more talent if talent WAS related to pounds (which we know ISN'T), or 50% less in the case of Ali.  Pacquio would probably win heads up.

But it's a stupid phrase to just say for a little guy, he is freaking GOOD and if he was that good at 70lbs more with the associated punching power?  Wow.

Indeed, and the inspiration for the question was Facebook.  I know I'm going to have to pay penance for the wild distraction caused.  I am very sorry!.

On the other hand, I think it's actually been good to see the responses, it's been interesting for me anyway......

ETA: interesting despite the dodgy Mr. Spitz picture.

Nice job of analyzing "pound for pound" to a point of no meaning at all.

The "title" attempts to compare fighters in different weight classes. Then you can compare fighters of different times to come up with a completely meaningless title... but it does provide entertainment and usually the demise of a few beers.

In a discussion of "pound for pound"... you subjectively compare each fighters skill set... weight does not need to be added or subtracted.

Even the former "most decorated Olympian ever"... she was 32? in her last Olympics... a Great Grandmother in todays world of gymnastics... was she the "greatest Olympic gymnast ever"... tough to say. Why has nobody ever heard of her before Phelps broke her record? Maybe in gymnastics she is the greatest ever, I don't follow gymnastics close enough to know. I'm just saying, in an era that was completely different how do compare past with present?

Pound for Pound though... Mark Spitz was the better swimmer.

I was being sarcastic. Most of my day is filled with meaningless activities. And most of that is on the web. Just look at the above example.

As far as actual merit... how can you even compare Olympians... such different sports, such different times, such different emphasis. I expect the "title" expressed so much last night will fade away because it is completely useless. "Most decorated Olympic athlete" is completely accurate. "Greatest American Swimmer" of all time... Ya. Easy answer. Greatest "Olympic Swimmer Ever"... ya, not too hard to pick him. "Greatest Olympian ever".... how do you even answer that?

Agree with all the above and I think the question you raise at the end is key, at least how I read the question :-).  How do you quantify "Greatest Olympian"

Taking a very simple view, I think it is valid to argue the goal in the Olympics is to gain victory at that time, in that event, against the best opposition the world can throw your way.  Measured like this, he is the most successful Olympian ever, no question. 

Does most successful mean greatest? 

Ah, that's always a hard one to answer.

How many marathons can you win in a 15-17 day period that the Olympics last, for example?

That being said, I am certain it is a privilege to have had the opportunity to watch him in three Olympics, as he is the greatest swimmer ever, the most decorated olympian and one of the greatest olympians ever, along with (in no particular order):

Emil Zatopek

Al Oerter

Abebe Bikila

Carl Lewis

Larisa Latynina

Mark Spitz

Nadia Comaneci

Paavo Nurmi

Jesse Owens

Jim Thorpe

And the ones I'm forgetting about...

ETA: Oh, and there was a time you HAD to be amateur to compete at the Olympics

The greatest Olympian ever is Jesse Owens because of what he did and where and when he did it.

All other discussion can start from there.

Michael Phelps is the greatest swimmer of all time in my book.

See and that was a thing of great character with the Olympics being the vehicle... so does Owens have the greatest character of all Olympians? I guess what I am saying is that was a political thing... not him, the "meaning"... at a critical time when those things were being questioned. Would other Olympians have show great character at other times given the opportunity?

I think the greatest take away from all this isn't the winner of some subjective title, but the celebration of great personal achievement in the sports arena. All these people mentioned were great people in their chosen arena, and to be in the discussion of "greatest" it usually takes some pretty good character too. It is always amazing to see what people can do with dedication and heart... even more so when they standout in an amazing group of people doing the same thing.