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Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind?
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 2013-05-20 8:50 AM |
Champion  10668     Tacoma, Washington |  Subject: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind?For frame materials, I'm a total titanium geek -- LOVE the stuff. But it's mostly limited to tubes. Charge is now teaming up with EADS to make 3-D printed titanium rear dropouts for their 'cross frames. So to take this a few steps further, can a 3-D printed FRAME, with aero shapes, be too far behind? Interesting stuff. http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/05/20/charge-bikes-3d-printed-titaniu... Edited by briderdt 2013-05-20 8:52 AM |
| 2013-05-20 9:11 AM in reply to: briderdt |
Expert 1484 | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? Originally posted by briderdt For frame materials, I'm a total titanium geek -- LOVE the stuff. But it's mostly limited to tubes. Charge is now teaming up with EADS to make 3-D printed titanium rear dropouts for their 'cross frames. So to take this a few steps further, can a 3-D printed FRAME, with aero shapes, be too far behind? Interesting stuff. http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/05/20/charge-bikes-3d-printed-titaniu... Where's the SUPER LIKE button? |
| 2013-05-20 9:25 AM in reply to: magic |
Master 2504 Southwest Iowa | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? Technology from different manufacturing worlds working together is a great thing. I am sure there are other things already in the works, but won't be out for a while to the general public. |
| 2013-05-20 10:16 AM in reply to: flip18436572 |
Champion 6999 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? they can 3D print metal now? |
| 2013-05-20 10:34 AM in reply to: briderdt |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? I think the entire future of 3D printing is really exciting. I'm with you about titanium...I still have my custim Clark-Kent ti frame back in the 90s. Thinking about rebuidking it as I have never had a bike that hase ridden so nice. Anyway, the future of 3D printing is much bigger than bike components. There is one company that I know of that is doing R&D on replicating human organs. There is another company that is replicating guns. SO there yu have it...make a copy of a gun and after shooting someone in the liver, make them a new liver.  We're barely scratching the surface with 3D printing! |
| 2013-05-20 10:40 AM in reply to: magic |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? Almost entirely off-topic, but I took my son to Drexel U. last Friday to talk to some professors about summer internship possibilities. He's in an engineering HS and they are required to do an internship in the summer of their Junior Year. Anyway, he fell in love with the robotics labs. No surprise. What did surprise me was some of the student projects. One group of college freshman was building a 3D printer from scratch. Another had used a lab-built 3D printer to create all the parts required to build a robotic hand. I want to go back to college! Plastic is easier to work with than metal, especially titanium, but I am sure now that the technology is available geeks everywhere are rejoicing  |
| 2013-05-20 1:03 PM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? I'm involved with a lot of the 3D printing advances. And to be honest a lot of it is PR. We've had 3D printing for 25+ years, only recently has it become mainstream. And the ones you hear the most about (like Makerbot) are expensive toys. The quality and speeds are no where near good enough to make production ready parts. You can 3D print metal.. sort of. You print a powder substrate version of the metal then you sinter it to "melt" it all together with a laser. These are NOT cheap machines. It almost always require some machining after the fact the get good surfaces and to remove the support structure. I'm not sure anyone outside of Boeing or Airbus could afford a Ti printer big enough to do an entire frame. It's also slow. Much slower than traditional machining. Finally sintered metals are not near as machined solid billets of material. They can be as weak at 30% of the tensile strength. Also due to the layering process oyu get micro cracks already built into the materials. It's like a casting vs a billet. And they are making some the parts of the bike that take the most abuse out of this material? I sure hope they done EXTENSIVE testing. I just don't see the advantage to making parts of the frame out of printed Ti. At this point I think it's a PR gimmick. Why would you want a frame that is weaker than a traditionally machined/fabricated frame? I'd say a production ready 3D printed frame is still at least 5 years out. And it's going to cost a fortune. Edited by TriRSquared 2013-05-20 1:04 PM |
| 2013-05-20 2:12 PM in reply to: TriRSquared |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? Originally posted by TriRSquared I'm involved with a lot of the 3D printing advances. And to be honest a lot of it is PR. We've had 3D printing for 25+ years, only recently has it become mainstream. And the ones you hear the most about (like Makerbot) are expensive toys. The quality and speeds are no where near good enough to make production ready parts. You can 3D print metal.. sort of. You print a powder substrate version of the metal then you sinter it to "melt" it all together with a laser. These are NOT cheap machines. It almost always require some machining after the fact the get good surfaces and to remove the support structure. I'm not sure anyone outside of Boeing or Airbus could afford a Ti printer big enough to do an entire frame. It's also slow. Much slower than traditional machining. Finally sintered metals are not near as machined solid billets of material. They can be as weak at 30% of the tensile strength. Also due to the layering process oyu get micro cracks already built into the materials. It's like a casting vs a billet. And they are making some the parts of the bike that take the most abuse out of this material? I sure hope they done EXTENSIVE testing. I just don't see the advantage to making parts of the frame out of printed Ti. At this point I think it's a PR gimmick. Why would you want a frame that is weaker than a traditionally machined/fabricated frame? I'd say a production ready 3D printed frame is still at least 5 years out. And it's going to cost a fortune. Why do you have to crush people's dreams? |
| 2013-05-20 3:02 PM in reply to: JoshR |
Champion 6999 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? I was thinking of a star trek future where you say what you want and bame you get it. Well al teast unassembled. |
| 2013-05-20 3:06 PM in reply to: chirunner134 |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? Originally posted by chirunner134 I was thinking of a star trek future where you say what you want and bame you get it. Well al teast unassembled. Replicators! I'm holding out for the Holodeck... |
| 2013-05-20 4:09 PM in reply to: briderdt |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? Originally posted by briderdt Originally posted by chirunner134 I was thinking of a star trek future where you say what you want and bame you get it. Well al teast unassembled. Replicators! I'm holding out for the Holodeck... Well, when we were visiting Drexel, one of the projects we saw was a self-assembling robot. Be careful what you wish for... |
| 2013-05-21 10:44 AM in reply to: JoshR |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by TriRSquared Why do you have to crush people's dreams? I'm involved with a lot of the 3D printing advances. And to be honest a lot of it is PR. We've had 3D printing for 25+ years, only recently has it become mainstream. And the ones you hear the most about (like Makerbot) are expensive toys. The quality and speeds are no where near good enough to make production ready parts. You can 3D print metal.. sort of. You print a powder substrate version of the metal then you sinter it to "melt" it all together with a laser. These are NOT cheap machines. It almost always require some machining after the fact the get good surfaces and to remove the support structure. I'm not sure anyone outside of Boeing or Airbus could afford a Ti printer big enough to do an entire frame. It's also slow. Much slower than traditional machining. Finally sintered metals are not near as machined solid billets of material. They can be as weak at 30% of the tensile strength. Also due to the layering process oyu get micro cracks already built into the materials. It's like a casting vs a billet. And they are making some the parts of the bike that take the most abuse out of this material? I sure hope they done EXTENSIVE testing. I just don't see the advantage to making parts of the frame out of printed Ti. At this point I think it's a PR gimmick. Why would you want a frame that is weaker than a traditionally machined/fabricated frame? I'd say a production ready 3D printed frame is still at least 5 years out. And it's going to cost a fortune. Just a bit tired of the hype machine going on right now... |
| 2013-05-21 11:25 AM in reply to: TriRSquared |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Can 3-D printed ti frames be far behind? Originally posted by TriRSquared I'm involved with a lot of the 3D printing advances. And to be honest a lot of it is PR. We've had 3D printing for 25+ years, only recently has it become mainstream. And the ones you hear the most about (like Makerbot) are expensive toys. The quality and speeds are no where near good enough to make production ready parts. You can 3D print metal.. sort of. You print a powder substrate version of the metal then you sinter it to "melt" it all together with a laser. These are NOT cheap machines. It almost always require some machining after the fact the get good surfaces and to remove the support structure. I'm not sure anyone outside of Boeing or Airbus could afford a Ti printer big enough to do an entire frame. It's also slow. Much slower than traditional machining. Finally sintered metals are not near as machined solid billets of material. They can be as weak at 30% of the tensile strength. Also due to the layering process oyu get micro cracks already built into the materials. It's like a casting vs a billet. And they are making some the parts of the bike that take the most abuse out of this material? I sure hope they done EXTENSIVE testing. I just don't see the advantage to making parts of the frame out of printed Ti. At this point I think it's a PR gimmick. Why would you want a frame that is weaker than a traditionally machined/fabricated frame? I'd say a production ready 3D printed frame is still at least 5 years out. And it's going to cost a fortune. Titanium is reactive with air when it's melted. Welding it has to be done sealed in argon gas. I assume there'll be the same issue with 3D printing, making it very expensive if someone attempts it. |
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