Aero Wheels 101 (Page 2)

Originally posted by GAUG3

I'm thinking about getting the disc cover from WB.  Will this crack pipe work?  http://www.amazon.com/Topeak-Pressure-Presta-Valve-Adapter/dp/B00GKH49GI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425928807&sr=8-1&keywords=silca+adapter  The Silca adapter on their site is $32.

Originally posted by msteiner

My Bontrager floor pump works well enough with their cover.  I've never needed a crack pipe.

Originally posted by GAUG3

I'm thinking during a race.

Originally posted by Jason N

For racing, my advice is to find a CO2 chuck that will work without a crack pipe.  Most of them will as their head is much smaller than a floor pump.  

Originally posted by msteiner

My Bontrager floor pump works well enough with their cover.  I've never needed a crack pipe.

Originally posted by Donto

3mar, you should be careful and make sure you are not including any comparison test that includes using a Butyl tube, also watch out for clincher (C) vs tubulars (T).  There are only 4 GP4000s listings on the main sheet (2-20c and 2-23c, one of which is with Butyl) and you show 5 tires.  I thought he also tested a 25c GP4000s but don't see it listed.

Another way of looking at the data, just sort the tires in lowest to highest Crr and look at/plot only those from 25W and less per/2-tires at 30kph (why go higher for racing) and then you'll see that most are wider tires.  If I counted correctly, there are 20 clinchers (removing tubs and out of production tires) of which 3 are less than 22mm in measured width and 6 are less than 23mm in measured width.

I thought it would have been a good data point to include a column in the SS to denote is a tire had built in puncture belt.  He thought about adding it but in the end said he'd leave that decision to the user as some tires are stated clearly and others leave you guessing if it does or not.  If you knew one offered better protection at the same Crr maybe you'd go with one over the over, e.g. Conti Supersonic 20c vs. GP4000s 23c.  In this example the GP4000 is less aero due to the width but again that's up to the user to decide. 

I thinking about switching my race day tires to the Attack/Force combo. Should offer better aero on the front at the same Crr and the fatty in the back doesn't matter for aero but offers muchless Crr.

Sorry to the OP taking over this thread with tire discussion!

 

Originally posted by Puppetmaster After doing much reading, I have given this some thought. I am watching Ebay and this site for a Flo 60/90 combo. However as I look I really question what will benefit me the most. I currently use trainer road and before that inRide and beofre that KK power meter. Once on the road I did not have a power meter and just rode howver I could. So after reading alot of this, I think I would actually get the most bang for my buck out of a power meter. I do thank you all the input on this thread and if those wheel pop up, well impulse buy time. Time to start the power meter thread Joe

Originally posted by 3mar I have spent the last two days researching (obsessively googling) all about this and I think I now know enough to be a danger to myself and maybe others. I'm left with some questions that, if you all can answer, I'll be eternally greatful. I was sold on the flo front and disc cover back, but the lack of Flo availability sent me looking for other alternatives. That brings me to question 1: 

1. Chinese manufacterers. Super cheap full carbon and the only negatives I've found searching this and other forums are from people that don't actually own them. I wasn't able to find any first hand horror stories, just a lot of people saying they *must* be crappy, they're 1/5th the price. Yet there are tons of people that own them that say they're fine. I'm still nervous though. So anyone have a first hand horror story? 

2. Depth; is it bigger is better? Do I just go straight to the 88's? What are the decision factors? 

3. U vs V shape. From what I've read, V is slightly better in a direct head wind and unstable everywhere else, which is why everyone is going U. I found some 88's (but need help on #2) that are somewhere in between but at 88, any shape differences are a bit lost anyway. So, does shape matter as much at larger sizes? 

I had others but forgot them and my plane is boarding so I have to go. Thanks in advance for any help. 

Originally posted by 3mar
1. Chinese manufacterers. Super cheap full carbon and the only negatives I've found searching this and other forums are from people that don't actually own them. I wasn't able to find any first hand horror stories, just a lot of people saying they *must* be crappy, they're 1/5th the price. Yet there are tons of people that own them that say they're fine. I'm still nervous though. So anyone have a first hand horror story?

2. Depth; is it bigger is better? Do I just go straight to the 88's? What are the decision factors?

3. U vs V shape. From what I've read, V is slightly better in a direct head wind and unstable everywhere else, which is why everyone is going U. I found some 88's (but need help on #2) that are somewhere in between but at 88, any shape differences are a bit lost anyway. So, does shape matter as much at larger sizes?

Originally posted by Jason N

A good set of tires and tubes (latex) will probably save you close to the same amount of time due to improved rolling resistance as your wheels will due to aerodynamics.  So yes, if your interest is going as fast as possible then you absolutely should select the fastest tire/tube combination you can.  Bang for your buck, it's one of the first things everyone should do.

Originally posted by 3mar So I'm guessing the stock felt wheels don't fall into that category. So GP4000s sound like the winner. Any recommendations on specific tubes?

Originally posted by 3mar So I'm guessing the stock felt wheels don't fall into that category. So GP4000s sound like the winner. Any recommendations on specific tubes?

Originally posted by Jason N

I have used both Vittoria and Michellin latex tubes.  The main difference between the two is that if you use valve extenders (you most likely will need to if your rims are deeper than 30 mm) the Vittorias has a removable core and the Michelins do not.  So it just depends on what type of extender you rather use.

The non removable cores are nice in a sense that the extender will not be a point of failure as far as holding air in the tube.  Once they are pumped up, you can actually remove the extender and use it on another tube if you want.  This is good for if you flat, and you need an extender on your spare.  Just screw it off the old tube and screw it on the new one.  No need to have extenders already prepped on your spares unless you really want to.  You can screw on the extender easily by hand.

The downside is that you need to make sure you have a tight seal (use plumbers tape) when screwing them on...otherwise air won't go in properly.  It's not that hard to get it right, but if you're in a rush changing a flat and it isn't screwed on tight, most of the air from your C02 will leak out while inflating.  Also, since it's just screw on and hand tight, it is possible for them to come a little loose.  Again, it won't impact the ability for the tube to hold air already in it...you just have to sometimes check to make sure it is tight before trying to put more air in.

The removable core tubes extender basically acts how a normal tube would with the presta valve on the end.  It takes a little more effort (and usually a tool) to get the extender on tight with a good seal (also use plumbers tape).  This seal is critical though because it is a point of failure for holding air in the tube, but once you have it on right, you shouldn't have to worry about it.  Unlike the screw on extenders, you cannot remove them or loosen them without all the air coming out of the tube.  If you get a flat and need a spare, your spare will either need to be long valved, or you already have an extender on it.  It would be a huge PITA to remove and replace a removable core extender from one tube to another on the side of the road.  Also, you have to make sure to take the flat tube home with you so you can remove the extender and save it for future use.  Don't be like me and forget...and throw the whole flat tube away with the extender.  With a screw on extender, it's a lot easier to unscrew on the spot by hand and put it in your pocket, then throw the tube away.

The additional benefit of removable core extenders is that when you remove the core, you can add sealant into the tube if you wish.  You can't do this with tubes that don't have a removable core.  Sealant can help protect you against small punctures and doesn't seem to impact rolling resistance.

Originally posted by Scott71

I've been using Michelin latex tubes from probikekit.com:

http://www.probikekit.ca/bicycle-inner-tubes/michelin-a1-aircomp-latex-road-inner-tube/10782220.html

Delivery can take time, so order well in advance of your race.

I've read a few posts complaining that latex tubes are delicate and are prone to pinch flats when installing or inflating, but I personally have never had a problem.

The tubes are bright green so its fairly easy to make sure its properly seated in the tire before you inflate.

ETA - note that latex deflates much quicker than butyl tubes so don't be alarmed if they're soft or even flat within a few days.  If you have to rack your bike the night before, be sure that you have a pump handy on race morning.

Also, I don't believe that C02 will work with latex tubes, so your spare should be butyl.

 

Originally posted by 3mar

Guys, thanks, I appreciate the input and pulled the trigger on a set of wheels. So, last question; do I need to upgrade my tires? I've heard a lot of good things about GP4000's but I want to know if I need them. I currently have the stock tires that came with my Felt which are 700x23 Vitorria Zaffiro Slicks. Are those good enough or do I need to upgrade. That particular tire wasn't on the list of tires on the link referenced earlier in the thread.

Originally posted by axteraa

CO2 will work fine in a latex tube in the sense that it won't immediately deflate, it will just lose pressure faster than air.  So if you were in a situation where you needed to finish a race or ride it would work fine, you'll just have to reinflate it for the next ride.  However there is no way I would want to change a flat on the side of the road using a latex tube, it's way to easy to rush and end up pinching the tube and immediately popping the tube.  One of the most horrific sounds you will ever hear is your $12 latex tube going POP-Pfffffftttt about 2 seconds after inflation.

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn With the understanding that "worth it" is a relative term, is it worth it to use a disc cover on a training wheel if I don't also have an aero front wheel? Is the aero benefit significant enough to justify even the relatively meager cost of the cover if I'm using a standard front wheel?