Bike fits - not the be-all-end-all?

Yeah, if you know enough to be able to fit yourself, you're probably on slowtwitch and/or roadbikeforums and not on a beginner forum site asking whether you should get a road bike or tri bike.

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A good fit session should provide you with that good initial set-up (I disagree that it is hard to walk out of a bike shop with a $1500+ bike and a poor fit) plus a better understanding of WHY you are positioned that way and what types of adjustments you might want to try as you ride more.  Not saying you absoluetly can't learn this on your own, but it is not easy to do so since you can't readily 'watch' yourself on the bike.  A GOOD fit session is generally well worth the investment.  And, if done prior to/in conjunction with a bike purchase, can save you from making a poor bike choice.

Also, some pro do not actually have good positions on the bike and should not be used as models.

I would have had NO idea how to correctly set up either my road bike or my tri bike. I've been able to go back and have them tweak it if I notice any problems.  It was well worth the money for me. 

For someone who knows a lot more, I can see how it isn't worth the money.  For lots of beginners, I think it is worth the money more than other things you can buy.

I'd generally agree with the OP.  But it comes with experience.  Too many think they understand how to correct issues by tweaking this or that and next thing you know, they are all f'ed up.

A good fit is definitely a place to start.  It IS only a start though.  Most people will not need to tweak much once they find that sweet spot though.

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I am a beginner, but I KNOW that I benefited from a fit session and from asking a ton of questions here (online) and of other cyclists and triathletes.

My first bike did not really fit at all, I was uncomfortable and unhappy for the most part... just started riding a bike that fits me and I am averaging nearly 2.6 mph faster and I am feel so much better after!!!  and the process really helped to educate me.

but to the point of your post... yeah I think all of those opinions make sense as well!

I would agree. There are factors that most fittings don't consider like dominant muscle groups, riding style, recurring injuries, etc. Most take a few measurments, run some calculations based on how THEY think you should ride and bingo! You are set up absolutely perfect.

Fittings have value but your personal fit will end up being within a range of how they set you up, and as you develop as a rider, that range will change as well.

I have had 4 bike fits. The guy I like best used the Retuel system last time. It really is just a fancy way to measure your body. Key to it and any bike fit is what they do with the measurements and how it works with your body.

I do know fit places that do a formula and it is similar for everyone...may not work well for everyone.

My fit guy, asks lots of questions like your goals, type of races you'll be doing, hilly IM vs sprints has different fit, issues you have had, any medical/injury stuff that is applicable, does the measuring different ways depending on level of fit you get, comes up with the fit, discusses it with you, he sets up the bike, you ride couple hundred miles come back and discuss and tweak if needed.

I see fit is more like an art than here are the measurements adjust the bike and go ride. Skill of fitter is huge and how they approach the fit as well.

I've worked with my fit guy for last 3 years. We talk about my fit a few times a year and tweak this or that depending on races, issues I have and the like.

Probably I will get a custom bike next and we are discussing that how it would be similar and different to current bike. Fit works well just may be a bit more aggresive.

Edited by KathyG 2009-07-06 10:34 AM

Just FYI -  Retul is not a fitting system like FIST, Serotta or Specialized BG; the Retul in general is just a software that allows you to gather measuring points without actually having to do the measurements yourself with measuring tape and other tools. IOW you can go to a FIST fitter (or other) and he could be using the Retul to just gather your measurments, then fit you using the FIST principles and measure you again with the Retul to give you your final numbers.

About the OP -  I agree with JK and Rick. I've done it both ways and IMO going to a good fitter was worth the $$ for me; it gave a baseline of what's optimal for me and from there I can always tweak my position with minor adjustments. When I got fitted I was on a different tri bike and when I got my new Felt DA I just transfer my numbers from one bike to the other and just did minor tweaks mainly to ride more aggressive but I always have my fit #s (saved on Slowtwitch) so I can use those as a reference. Finally the fitter I saw also helped me solve some mechanical issues when pedaling because one leg acts 'funny' that fixed some aches bugging me when biking and running through cleat/pedal alignment and adding some Wedges.

Agreed (for me at least), but it was nice to have a good starting point from which to work, and some helpful info from the fitter about HOW to tweak effectively (e.g., "as you get more comfortable in aero, you might try X, but be aware then when you do that, you'll probably also need to do Y").



I managed to walk out of my LBS with a poor fit.  Part my fault, part theirs.


If they fit by a formula without talking to you, then they are not specialists I'd want to visit.  My 2c.



Agree.  Again, it is helpful to have some clue about how to go about it, though.  I've read through all of the FIST stuff online, and as much other stuff as can get my hands on.  I still don't feel 100% confident making changes, though I do it anyway.



Doesn't sound like an argument against a fitter at all -- on the contrary, it seems to me that a good fitter will work with the athlete to get the fit that is best for that particular athlete -- it stands to reason that the result will look different from person to person. A bad fitter might make them all look the same, applying some cookie cutter formula to all of them.



As you say and I'll emphasize, just my opinions -- I'm no expert at all.

I'm going to agree with the statement about spending 1500$ and not having a good fit.  I spent 1200$ on my first bike and I didn't realize how badly it fit me until I bought my new bike.  I'm now riding a 51cm frame and they sold me a 54cm frame.  Plus - they swapped out the stem for a LONGER one.  I didn't know what I was doing and they didn't know much about triathlon. 

There is so much knowledge required in order to fit you correctly.

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Too true. 

The guy who set me up on my Kestrel was obviously using F.I.S.T. principles, but I don't know if he's certified.  He'd done a fitting for my wife not long ago that she was fairly--but not 100%--happy with...but she's definitely in the camp that wouldn't dare start tweaking.  OTOH, I've done several tweaks to the setup on my Kestrel...the most major being swapping out for a longer stem last week.  I was certain at the initial fit that the stem was significantly too short, but this fitter pooh-poohed that.  Now that I've mustered up the gumption and made the swap, it's pretty clear I was right and he was just being too lazy to make that big a change in an initial fit where he wasn't getting the sales commission on the bike.  (To be fair, he did swap out my wife's stem in her fit, which was a paid fitting.)

So, fwiw, I'd agree with the the notion that informed tweaking is probably natural as you get to know your tendencies over time (and esp. if the fitter was just applying formulas somewhat inflexibly) and that it is definitely possible to walk out of an LBS with a $1500 (or $1845, in this case) bike and an inadequate fit.  It all depends... 

It sounds like I got lucky the first time, because I had a similar experience.  I've only had 1 fitting (April 2008) right after I got my first bike, so I had no clue what to expect.  Fortunately, by asking around I found out the the LBS 2 buildings away from my office is known for doing some of the best fits in the area.  The guy asked me a ton of questions, and seemed to only use the formulas as a starting point, but then adjusted everything based on my answers and by watching me spin for 20 minutes at a time before making tweaks.  In the end, I couldn't believe how different it felt.  The entire process took a good 2 1/2 hours.

Based on my single experience, I'd guess that the experience of the technician doing the fitting is more important than the particular system that they use.

Bingo!!!

I have nothing at all against professional bike fits. Everybody's different and each person makes different choices about what they want to learn/pursue, and what they want pro's to handle for them (coaching, fitting, maintenance, repairs, etc). But IMO, in terms of "complexity for a beginner", the training methods that I've seen many beginners use, appear to me to be at least as complex as fitting a bike. (Not saying there's anything wrong with that...)

Secondly, I disagree with your accessment and I've seen that idea mentioned numerous times lately on BT. When I came to this site about two years ago I was just taking up triathlon after a 15 year hiatus. I didn't even know that there was more than one Ironman race and knew nothing about gear, recent training methods, race strategies, etc. So I certainly considered myself a "beginner". I'm not a beginner any more so surely that doesn't mean that I'm supposed to leave to other sites... I could be wrong but I consider this a site that is friendly/motivating for beginners and their questions and discussions, but also for those who eventually move out of the beginner realm.

I got a fit at a LBS years ago.  It was very uncomfortable but I rode on it anyway and hated the bike.  This time around, I lowered my seat by several inches and am much much more comfortable!

Several inches? I usually move my seat 2 mm (0.08 inches) at a time and the change is obvious to me when riding.

I totally agree with this statement!  Mainly because it happened to me.  Ok so, maybe my bike wasn't $1,500...it was more like $1,200 (close enough)...but still should have had a semi-decent bike fit when I left the store.  Turns out that the bike was too big for me from the get-go...only I didn't know any better because I trusted the LBS to make the necessary adjustments.   Sure, they made adjustments to it...however, they were so desperate to sell that bike (was last year's model) that they did everything in their power to get it to fit me...when what I really needed was a smaller frame.

Edited by nscrbug 2009-07-06 9:56 PM

I've had both and to me it is definitely worth the price to have a professional fitting and then buy a bike based off the recommendations of the fitter.  I wouldn't do the oppiste anymore and try a number of bikes and then have them try to fit it as best as possible to me.  I learned my lesson the hard way.

I had a LBS fit a bike they recommended to me.  They did the usual string from the knees drop line and other basic measurments.  Even modified the bike slightly changing to a different stem, etc.  It all seemed fine at first but as I started doing longer rides I started having problems with my knees and my neck, back, shoulders, feet and not to mention butt were all sore.  My knees began to hurt and I stopped biking but my knees still 'clicked' for about a month after I stopped.

I went to Fitwerx after that and got a pro fitting.  It was a different experience and took about 4 hours for the fitting.  Besides the fancy videos you might see with all the angles shown there is much more to it.

It starts with taking your body measurements.  Quite a few, I don't remember all the areas they measured.  Then they measured my flexibility and range of motion.  Although you may think a bike fits, if you are out of your comfortable range for flexibilty and range of motion it might not be the best bike for you.  These measurement gave them a baseline of where to start for frame dimensions and geometry.  Then it is on to the adjustable bike to measure all the angles and also check your positions with a power meter.

Besides finding the best position within your body's geometry they also try to maximize your position for aero and power.  With their equipment they are able to tell you that if you try to get too aero you might give up too much power because you are no longer pedaling within your body's limits.

When all was said and done they recommended several bikes they carry that could be adjusted to fit me or I could order a custom frame/bike.  I bought one of the recommended bikes and had it fitted to me.  The custom frames were more than I was willing to spend or I might of went that route.  They will also give you recommended dimensions for a fee in case you want to research other brands on your own that might fit you.

My wife thought I was crazy buying a bike without trying a ton of bikes and buying what they recommended.  After she had her own problems she decided to do the same and had a pro fitting and ended up getting a new bike that was better suited to her.  Neither of us regret the decision to have the PRO fittings.  It was worth it!

If you have plans of ever doing a longer race like an IM, HIM, or other distance bike rides or plan to be very compeative these little details all add up.  And as anyone knows as you start doing longer rides you start to notice these little aches and pains beging to emerge.  If you are going to just be doing shorter distance races and new to the sport you can probably get by with a LBS fitting and not have any problems.

If you aspire to do longer distances I would seriously consider spending the money for a pro fitting and get the right bike for you.

Bob

I am new to triathlon this year, but come with years of road racing experience as well as stints as a mechanic over the course of 6 years. I have worked with people that sold bikes that knew nothing about bike fitting. I feel pretty confident that I know enough to reasonably fit someone on a road bike. A tri-bike...no way! I have a lot to learn there. The geometry is very different, the rider position is different, the seat angle different, areo-bars change the ride position and the weight distribution. SO much is different that I would not know where to start.

The skill of the fitter is paramount.

BTW I am having my tri-bike fit done tomorrow as I feel that I am riding too far forward on my seat and I am unsure of my leg extension.

Doug