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2008-10-16 8:29 PM

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Subject: Are we in the wrong?
So I'm running with my fiance down a street. I typically run on the white line, and try to have Alicia run in the same area.

Basically, the guy driving his vehicle buzzed us extremely close. He didn't slow down either. He came back, slowed down, rolled his window down, and let us have it, saying "There's a running path right there a**hole!". Then he floored it and peeled out right by us, going in our direction (opposite way of the buzz).

On the picture, the south bound lane with the 1ish foot "run path" (shoulder with gravel) is what the guy was talking about, which would have clearly been running WITH traffic, which I would not want to do.

So, have I been doing this all wrong?

I have a feeling he has seen "inexperienced" runners on that side of the road running with traffic, and thought that's how you're supposed to do it.

Either way, it's pretty sad when you don't care about human life more than about your "right" to drive without having to move an inch.





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2008-10-16 8:38 PM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
Nice diagram. I don't know what is technically right, but I will offer up that you should decide which way seems safest to you. I always learned (not just for running) to face the danger. Following that guidance you are correct. But if being on the other side of the road buys you some space... Well, if a car is going to hit you I doubt that 12 inches would make a big difference. However, seeing a swerving car approaching may make all the difference.

Of course, being right is less important than being safe.
2008-10-16 8:43 PM
in reply to: #1748629

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?

Check your traffic codes. In NY state, if there's a sidewalk you're obligated to use it, but if you're a pedestrian on a street with no sidewalk the law actually directs you to face traffic just as you describe.

On top of that, I tend not to take advice from someone who goes out of their way to scream obscenities at complete strangers in public.

2008-10-16 8:52 PM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
This was the first time since I've started running in Oct 07 that I've ever felt threatened (while running).
2008-10-16 8:57 PM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
I run on the white line too, always looking for a bail out if someone gets too close.  Sometimes people misjudge how much space they actually have, especially when a car is coming the opposite direction.  They think they have to move over too far, so they end up not moving at all, thinking they will hit the other car.  You were in the right.  He was just an a-hole.
2008-10-16 9:20 PM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?

I always run in the streets, regardless of whether or not there is a sidewalk.  NJ doesn't believe in shoulders, so I'm usually hanging out IN traffic, forcing people to swerve around me a bit.  And yeah, every few runs I have someone pitch a fit about something, or squeeze me off the road... a good reason to face traffic and look out for yourself.  It's not ideal, but it's the best option.  I've gotten used to verbal harassment, doesn't usually phase me, sometimes I find it entertaining to see how worked up people get driving.  As far as legality, I haven't check NJ law, and even though I've been here <4 months, I've had many, many cops pass me and not say a word.

In the wrong?  Not a chance, in my book!

Yes, it is pretty sad.  I've had drivers shout at me b/c my presence made then miss an opportunity to make a turn onto the main street I was running up... there wasn't enough room for them to squeeze by a line of stopped cars to make a right on red... and even been cussed out for not saying "Hi" when someone shouted "Hi" at me.  And yes, I've used my middle finger a couple times...



2008-10-16 9:21 PM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?

No, a 1ft wide gravel shoulder is not a 'running path'.  Yes, the guy was a jerk, and and worse for being willing to endanger you (which is not cool even if you were wrong).

As someone said, whether you were legally wrong depends on state or local codes.   But running in the road against traffic is, I think, the generally accepted correct way to run amongst runners.

I don't generally run on roads big enough to have white lines on the side  On the roads I run, I stay closer to the middle then move over when I see a car coming (which is rare).  I'm more visible there, and the camber of the road is less severe.  Indeed, when I run early in the morning, I run right down the middle of the street.  Obviously, on a busy road this is not possible.

 

2008-10-16 10:16 PM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
I bet if you were on the other side of the road, that same guy would have done the same thing but yelled at you for not running against traffic.  There are just some people out there like that.  I am lucky to have plenty of sidewalks and trails around where I live and would dread running on a road with limited shoulders.  I deal with the drivers that dont change lanes and buzz me when they pass me biking and there are 2 lanes going both ways and no other cars within sight.  Stay safe and be aware.

Edited by Big_D 2008-10-16 10:17 PM
2008-10-16 10:50 PM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
I think the general consensus is to run against traffic just so you can keep potential hazards in front of you, but I would still never yell at somebody for running along with traffic.  A person that comes that close to you and then yells at you for it is someone that is jealous that they can't get there pathetic a** off the couch and do the same thing.
2008-10-16 11:03 PM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?

kevmk81 - 2008-10-16 6:29 PM So I'm running with my fiance down a street. I typically run on the white line, and try to have Alicia run in the same area. Basically, the guy driving his vehicle buzzed us extremely close. He didn't slow down either. He came back, slowed down, rolled his window down, and let us have it, saying "There's a running path right there a**hole!". Then he floored it and peeled out right by us, going in our direction (opposite way of the buzz). On the picture, the south bound lane with the 1ish foot "run path" (shoulder with gravel) is what the guy was talking about, which would have clearly been running WITH traffic, which I would not want to do. So, have I been doing this all wrong? I have a feeling he has seen "inexperienced" runners on that side of the road running with traffic, and thought that's how you're supposed to do it. Either way, it's pretty sad when you don't care about human life more than about your "right" to drive without having to move an inch.

Chalk it up to an a hole.  You were doing what was safest for you (IMHO) and exactly what I do.

ETA as far as legality, I pass by cops here in LA all the time running against traffic and never been advised or told it was wrong



Edited by ChrisM 2008-10-16 11:05 PM
2008-10-17 1:35 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
You have white lines on your roads? Wow, wicked citified stuff, yeah?


2008-10-17 2:25 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
He turned around? The guy was a nut. You were fine. You are best served running facing traffic just so you can see these nuts coming. 
2008-10-17 2:36 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?

There are too many idiots in the world. Too many people who can't understand that laws are to create order and safety. Those people can only follow the laws to the T. They have no understanding. They are parrots. You have to avoid those people as best you can. They cannot understand that your first amendment rights come before any traffic rule. If people drove with complete consideration and yielding of others. There would be no need for many of our traffic signs. The big problem is that people have no love of others. They do not treat others as if they were themselves. So we have laws for them. Consider them mentally handicapped. They are actually walking dead.

 I have a difficult time whenever I run on a road. I do it often enough. Always face the traffic so you can see that idiot coming and bail out. There are too many who think it's cute to scare you...then they make a little mistake and ruin the rest of your life. 

 I avoid roads if I can. That is one attraction of trail running. Heck... being on the road is bad enough in a car. I know the guy who holds the senior record for marathons trains in a cemetery. I've run as much as 20 miles in a park that was only .6 miles long. Especially if you're going long and know you're going to have difficulty being alert, avoid roads. 

 As far as being right or wrong? I used to drive a cab at night. I could have gotten killed ten times a year. I'd stop at a blinking yellow light where the other direction was blinking red. My drunk customer would ask: "Gee... I didn't know we had to stop at blinking yellow lights?" I would point to the car driving through the intersection at 40 mph and say to the customer: "You can complain to the coroner all day long about having the right of way." 

2008-10-17 6:49 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
How busy of a road is it? I run against traffic the majority of the time, but will run with if there is a sidewalk that doesnt constantly go up and down.
2008-10-17 7:00 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
Wow! What a terd! I can't believe he actually turned around! Guy needs some 'road rage' happy pills. Maybe HE needs to take up running.

That being said, I also always run against traffic. Although if there was a running path... even a bitty one, I most likely would have been on it. On the other hand, your diagram (which is excellent, by the way) just makes that 'path' look like a wide shoulder. So in this case, I probably would have been doing exactly what you were doing and that would be running against traffic.

I'm so sorry that you and your fiance had to deal with a terd like this. We've all been buzzed before, usually it tends to be on the bike for me; however, that dude turning around to yell at you. Scary stuff! If that ever happens again, try to get a plate number and call the cops as soon as you can.
2008-10-17 7:07 AM
in reply to: #1748905

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
Jon311024 - 2008-10-16 11:50 PM
 A person that comes that close to you and then yells at you for it is someone that is jealous that they can't get there pathetic a** off the couch and do the same thing.


Agreed ^^^


2008-10-17 8:25 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
Good... it sounds like we were doig what we should have been. I typically feel safe while running against traffic!

And yeah, I agree, he is huge, piece of sh... turd.
2008-10-17 8:25 AM
in reply to: #1749099

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?

I run in the bike lane going against traffic, just easier on the legs.  I watch for bikes and hop back on the sidewalk to get out of their way.

When it gets darker I just run on the sidewalk.  It is scary thinking that I ride in this same bike lane all the time and how often when running I see cars veer into the bike lane (easy to spot where, just look for the faded lines)

The reason I run on the sidewalk when it gets darker is that yes I have the "right" to be on the road but if a car can't see me and runs me over, who cares who is right or wrong I would be flat, so it comes down to common sense.  I try to use that whenever possible on the bike or run.

2008-10-17 8:43 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?

On quiet streets, I run a foot or two inside (in the lane) the white line, that way I've got room to move if someone gets close.  Most drivers swing as far towards the center or even cross partially into the oncoming lane when they pass me. 

On busy streets, I run on the sidewalk, still with a preference to run towards oncoming traffic. 

I've run into a few jerks in the area, but luckily not many. 

2008-10-17 10:06 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
Definitely run against traffic. You need to be able to make eye contact with drivers. If I feel that they're driving too close I'll make eye contact and extend my arm and motion for them to get over. Not usually an issue but I do run about 1/4 of a mile on a busy road to get to the running path.

I was buzzed terribly close in a situation not too dissimilar from your own. It is scary. And I failed to make eye contact with that driver. But I find if I make eye contact they generally slow down and are more courteous.

Now the guy backing up to chew you out?? Weird. And he needs a life.
2008-10-17 10:17 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
I avoid the street as much as possible.  Being right does not protect your life.


2008-10-17 10:24 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
I run towards oncoming traffic.  That being said, there are some roads I will not run on even when there is a shoulder because of the speed and volume of traffic.  The more motorist you encounter the more likely you are to have an altercation with one!  I once threw my water bottel at a guy for getting to close.  He jumped out of his truck with a hammer!  Never did get physical though but I about pooped my pants!  Anyway, sounds like you were not wrong.  The guy is an uptight d-bag!
2008-10-17 10:27 AM
in reply to: #1748629

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?
Most people who responded are braver than me. I almost always stay off the roads when it comes to running. Who cares if you are right. I mean the noise, the dust, not for me.

On a side note, there is this guy I see on my Saturday runs, usually around 8 a.m. Now I do not know when this guy gets up but he is caked in sweat and running slow, even for me, I have this vision that he is training for some Ultra.

Anyways, I run down the sidewalks, this guy runs down the MIDDLE of the road. If there was a yellow line in the middle of the road, that is what he would run down. It is a main drag in a residential neighborhood so people are whizzing down at 50-70 km/hour, but it is early so hardly any traffic. I just shake my head. CRAZY.
2008-10-17 11:04 AM
in reply to: #1749617

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?

BigDH - 2008-10-17 11:27 AM Most people who responded are braver than me. I almost always stay off the roads when it comes to running. Who cares if you are right. I mean the noise, the dust, not for me. On a side note, there is this guy I see on my Saturday runs, usually around 8 a.m. Now I do not know when this guy gets up but he is caked in sweat and running slow, even for me, I have this vision that he is training for some Ultra. Anyways, I run down the sidewalks, this guy runs down the MIDDLE of the road. If there was a yellow line in the middle of the road, that is what he would run down. It is a main drag in a residential neighborhood so people are whizzing down at 50-70 km/hour, but it is early so hardly any traffic. I just shake my head. CRAZY.

 

Maybe the road has a nasty camber. Getting hit by a car is way better than aggravating your ITB

2008-10-17 11:15 AM
in reply to: #1749725

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Subject: RE: Are we in the wrong?

It's all about safety for me.  Daytime, I run on the roads in my neighborhood.  We have streets wide enough for driving and parking on both sides, but no one parks there.

At night, I will run on the streets, but jump on the curb when I see a car coming.  I'm not sure if they see me, so better to be off the streets.

If there is a path, I tend to use it.

People are just A-holes.  But sometimes I thinks it's a reaction that they get when they almost hit someone and get scared.  A couple times, when I was running against traffic, someone will approach from a street on the left and want to make a right turn.  The will me looking over there left shoulder for traffic and NEVER look right.  I have almost been hit a couple times.  Both times they yelled or gestured at me for being in the wrong.  I think if they thought about it, they KNOW they should have looked, but in that instant, were mad at me for putting them in that position.  No excuse though.  I still wanted to put a rock through their back window...

I'm just kind of glad I'm 6'7" 230 and know how to fight.  I think I get a little less "comentary" from people.  Not sure why! 



Edited by Aikidoman 2008-10-17 11:17 AM
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