Grant Hackett 1500m swim-

Awesome swim and perspective. It appears he still holds the record.

Aside from breathing every two strokes (pretty common for distance events, particularly the latter half) his kick has varying patterns. Part of the time he exhibits a six-beat kick and then pauses to breath (also very common), the other times he is pretty consistent with his kick - no letting up.

I think it's the only record still standing from pre-suit mess that happened in 08. Gotta give him credit!

I kind of kick like he does, never really meant to... it just kind of happened.

Yep still has the WR. Breathes every stroke to one side and check out that kick. I know everyone seems to point out Phelps when making a statement about swimming, but as a triathlete I would rather be able to swim like Hackett he was considerably faster over distance. Hacketts speed from his catch to getting into the pull is incredible. Very fast turnover for the whole distance. Oh, and as soon as he gets his arm extended he does not try to glide, just starts pushing right away.

Edited by gerald12 2010-02-12 11:45 AM

33 Strokes per length -- I am assuming thats a 50M pool --  but he does it exactly 33 every length.  His head is back --looking ahead --not pointing at the bottom.

Yes good point on the short push off the wall. Consistently 33 strokes per length. Another thing that I notice is that he spends most of his time on his side (good thing) and he seems to look forward more than I would think would produce the least amount of drag.

X2.  IMO, too many triathletes are training to be Phelps in their masters classes without realizing it when they might be better served by looking at this sort of approach for endurance swimming...conservative kicking, for starters...not forcing bilateral breathing.

Yikes, we seemed to be looking at the same thing at the same time.

Edited by gerald12 2010-02-12 12:37 PM

When I'm trying to go faster, but not sprinting, I tend to kick that way. You need to kick an odd number of times per pull in order to get your body rotating correctly. Consequently, most folks would do either 1 kick per pull (2 beat kick) or 3 kicks per pull (6 beat kick). I think what he's doing for much of the time is 1-3-1-3-1-3 etc. So, he's kicking 1 time when he's pulling with one arm, and 3 times with the other. Let's call it a 4-beat kick. I'd bet that in shorter races he uses a 6-beat kick most of the time, but for a 1500 it might be better to do the 4-beat.

That's exactly how I kick and why I often suggest that people not get too hung up on # beats per kick but instead kick in a way that is natural for them, maintains proper body position, and provides some forward momentum.

I really like the way his pulls do not seem to be symmetrical. It seems as if he almost dives forward with his right arm, then breathes while pulling with his left, followed by a sort of diving motion forward with his right. Phelps has something similar going on to a certain extent. It is a very cool video- what fantastic access to this kind of thing we have these days!

I do that too. My right arm has a more aggressive entry than my left.

its some pretty cool stuff.

Also neat to see a distance swimmer kicking

this also brings up the question, if the worlds best distance swimmer is kicking (and if you go watch the first half of the race where you can see everyone else, they are too), why do triathletes think kicking is useless?

Only entering my 2nd tri season, but I've not heard people claim kicking is useless. I'm typically told that kicking too much can waste valuable energy & tire the legs for the bike & run, but a functional kick for rotation/body position is critical for reasonably quick swim leg. 

I love watching videos of top competitive swimmers, but I try not to forget that they are trained to give 100% during their swim.  Seems to me tri athletes must keep significant of energy in reserve for bike & run where most of our event is contested.

x2, although I think it is often misunderstood by triathletes who "think" they don't ever have to or should kick. A common misconception.

The more I watch him the more I realize that's just how I swim, just not as fast. I do that same kick with the pause and my right arm will often dive in aggressively and then move up a bit on the reach. And I've said it before, there is no right kick, like there is no right cadence, as long as your kick is keeping you well positioned, moving forward, not slowing you down, and does not have a huge energy cost.

Edited by bryancd 2010-02-12 5:48 PM

i dont think *all* triathletes think that but i great number i come into contact with/see swimming/read posts from do tend to think its either not needed or it will tire you out too much to be worth it.

and granted i come/am in more of a short course background/focus where the swim is a bit more important.

I do think training it and using it in races (more so with the shorter ones) can be a big help, but if you wait to kick till race day its going to kill you.

Or another way to look at it, the sports best swimmers (and some of the ones that do well overall) in the shorter distance tris are all kicking more than almost any triathlete i have seen aside from former swimmers. that said these are also the people at the front vs someone just trying to finish so that will effect things a bit too i think, in that the more trained for something you are the easier it is to push closer to the limit and still race well in the other two (same goes for biking and running).

Again, David, you are right but I think this comes from long course triathletes. 2.4 miles with an aggressive kick can kill you, so the kicks role in pace is diminished a great deal over a 1500M race. Again, therein lies most of what your hearing. I have always advocated a kick minimal on the purpulsion, heavy on the rotation for long course.

I'm with Bryan.  I think the kick is crucial for body position and balance but for tris not crucial for speed (not saying you shouldn't kick at all).  The difference between what Hackett is doing and what a triathlete is doing is that Hackett is doing everything he can to scrape every possible second out of a race with the expectation of being physically exhausted at the end of the race.  He doesn't need to save any energy for after the race. 

He flip turns??

I read the thread and just watched it. I was going to get into the kicking thing, but honestly he isn't kicking all that much (or at least all that much more than I do, perhaps a bit). Certainly doesn't look like he's doing it primarily for propulsion (else he'd do it consistently and constantly)

I have to disagree. I have a strong 6 beat kick and it doesn't change whether I'm doing a 500 free in a swim meet or a 2.4 mi IM swim. It doesn't take anything away from my bike or run. I would bet that if Hackett took up triathlon you wouldn't see any change in his kick during the swim leg.

Pat O'Keeffe (pokeeffe798) has the same style kick. The guy swims a 22:00 1.2 mi swim and backs is up with a 4:08:00 HIM. The point is that if your kick is PRODUCTIVE then use it. It's the non-productive kick that wastes energy and hurts the rest of the triathlon.