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2011-02-22 8:06 AM

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Champion
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Atlanta, Ga
Subject: Protesting good or bad?
I have been observing the whole protest thing from afar since I don't really follow the news much.  So take my thoughts/questions with a grain of salt.

I hear about the protests in Egypt and 'everyone' is like...good for them, they are standing up for themselves and what they believe in.

- I hear about the protests in other countries (Terain?  Bahrain?) and 'everyone' is like... good for them, they are standing up for themselves.

- WI protesters are standing up for what they believe in and 'everyone' is like....those selfish little people, how dare they stand in the way of what is right? 

- Tea Party protesters (back before the election).. 'everyone' is like...look a grass roots uprising that is showing the nation what the people really feel.

So here is my question:  If protesting is what the 'people' feel passionate about then how can one be say protesting is good on one point and bad on the other?  I'm slightly picking on the right here because I hear the same people that backed the tea party protests as 'The voice of America' are now trying to silence the WI protesters. 

Were people asking the Tea Party protesters why they were not at work?  Didn't they have something better and more valuable to do with their time, etc?  If people were asking this question, then great..even steven.  But I'm not seeing that happenning or happen from my view.

But I've been known to be wrong from time to time.


2011-02-22 8:15 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Member
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NC
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?

I think, generally, if people disagree with the protesters' position, then the protesters are idiots.  If people agree with the protesters' position, then the protesters are noble freedom fighters. 

2011-02-22 8:19 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Pro
4827
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McKinney, TX
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
I protest this post.
2011-02-22 8:26 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Melon Presser
52116
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Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
It really depends on context, reason, consequences, final outcome, and most of all whether I agree with the premise of the protest and whether protesting is effective to achieve the goal
2011-02-22 8:37 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?

I think the biggest difference between the groups you have mentioned is that the WI protestors are government union workers demanding the status quo and insisting that the people of the State cough up more money to the government for benefits that they can no longer afford.

The others are the gneral population protesting against the government.

I think if one wanted to compare the WI protests with the Egypt (and I personally think it's a pretty poor commparison) protest you would have to look at the union protestors as the group who were out trying to silence the will of the people.

Like President Obama said to the leader of Egypt he should listen to the will of the people, well it would be nice if he would take his own advise here. But no he mobalised his political arm to assult the will of the people of WI.

That's my take on it anyway.

2011-02-22 8:38 AM
in reply to: #3366546

Iron Donkey
38643
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, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
KenD - 2011-02-22 8:19 AM I protest this post.


Why do you hate America?


2011-02-22 8:47 AM
in reply to: #3366596

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Expert
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Village of Lakewood, Illinois
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Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
crusevegas - 2011-02-22 8:37 AM

I think the biggest difference between the groups you have mentioned is that the WI protestors are government union workers demanding the status quo and insisting that the people of the State cough up more money to the government for benefits that they can no longer afford.

The others are the gneral population protesting against the government.

I think if one wanted to compare the WI protests with the Egypt (and I personally think it's a pretty poor commparison) protest you would have to look at the union protestors as the group who were out trying to silence the will of the people.

Like President Obama said to the leader of Egypt he should listen to the will of the people, well it would be nice if he would take his own advise here. But no he mobalised his political arm to assult the will of the people of WI.

That's my take on it anyway.



Who's will should he listen to.  The people who voted OR the pople who are protesting in demonstration of a bill.  I think both are the will of the people.  Your bias is showing.

I am nuetral in this Wisconsin protest as I have no dog in the fight and understand where both sides are coming from.
2011-02-22 8:51 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Master
2946
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Centennial, CO
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?

I think when the protesters make up the majority, you are more likely to hear support.

2011-02-22 8:53 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Master
1529
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Living in the past
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
Marvarnett - 2011-02-22 8:06 AM I have been observing the whole protest thing from afar since I don't really follow the news much.  So take my thoughts/questions with a grain of salt.

I hear about the protests in Egypt and 'everyone' is like...good for them, they are standing up for themselves and what they believe in.

- I hear about the protests in other countries (Terain?  Bahrain?) and 'everyone' is like... good for them, they are standing up for themselves.

- WI protesters are standing up for what they believe in and 'everyone' is like....those selfish little people, how dare they stand in the way of what is right? 

- Tea Party protesters (back before the election).. 'everyone' is like...look a grass roots uprising that is showing the nation what the people really feel.

So here is my question:  If protesting is what the 'people' feel passionate about then how can one be say protesting is good on one point and bad on the other?  I'm slightly picking on the right here because I hear the same people that backed the tea party protests as 'The voice of America' are now trying to silence the WI protesters. 

Were people asking the Tea Party protesters why they were not at work?  Didn't they have something better and more valuable to do with their time, etc?  If people were asking this question, then great..even steven.  But I'm not seeing that happenning or happen from my view.

But I've been known to be wrong from time to time.


I hear nothing about 'silencing' the protesters. If anything I'm more concerned that my vote last November is being nullified by outsiders on behalf of a heavily vested minority.

To your question about protesting 'good or bad', here are my thoughts - nothing new or earthshaking here:

1. Protest all you want, if you believe strongly about something not going your way, have at it.
2. Don't expect me to agree with you, necessarily, and that the other side is entitled to their view.
3. Stick to facts and spare me the lunatic ranting and hyperbole.
4. Recognize that you'll probably be protesting alongside others that agree with you - makes it look like you are right; you probably aren't.

To your notion of 'hypocrisy' (my word) concerning the questioning of 'why are you not at work', I don't know if similar questions were asked of the tea party protesters before. Could they have been skipping work? Sure. Were any government workers? I'd be surprised if any were. Teachers? Maybe. Privately employed? More likely.

The question being asked at the end of the post goes to the root of the issue for me. The teachers/government workers that have been/are protesting WORK FOR ME (as a tax payer) - they are public servants. Given that, they have an obligation to show up and perform their jobs. They want to protest, fine. Arrange for time off, take a vacation day, otherwise expect to be disciplined for missing work and to anger your employers.  Given the fiscal condition of the state, their positions concerning wages, benefits, bargaining rights, and their union membership - with their direct connection to one particular politicial party, put them at odds with me, their employer and customer.
2011-02-22 8:53 AM
in reply to: #3366517

Master
1946
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Memphis, TN
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
I think it's always a good thing, even if I don't agree with their opinion, as long as it's kept peaceful.  Gotta love the constitution of the USA.
2011-02-22 9:00 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Champion
7347
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SRQ, FL
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
Protest all you want.  However trying to compare Egypt to Wisconsin is like trying to compare apples to forklifts.


2011-02-22 9:08 AM
in reply to: #3366675

Iron Donkey
38643
50005000500050005000500050002000100050010025
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
TriRSquared - 2011-02-22 9:00 AM Protest all you want.  However trying to compare Egypt to Wisconsin is like trying to compare apples to forklifts.


[/Hijack on]
I heard this morning that a person from Egypt, who is in support of Wisconsin public employees,  called Ian's Pizza here in Madison to order pizza (not pizza) for some of the supporters (not jockstraps or bras).
That's funny.
[/Hijack off]

Edited by 1stTimeTri 2011-02-22 9:08 AM
2011-02-22 9:09 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Pro
4292
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Evanston,
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
I draw the line at disrupting people's funerals a la Fred Phelps.

Short of that, grab that sign and go!
2011-02-22 10:15 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Master
2404
2000100100100100
Redlands, CA
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
Protesting is our right, the thing people have to realize though is that just because say, 2,000 people are protesting something that does not mean its what the majority wants.
2011-02-22 10:17 AM
in reply to: #3366620

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Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?

AddysDaddy - 2011-02-22 6:47 AM
crusevegas - 2011-02-22 8:37 AM

I think the biggest difference between the groups you have mentioned is that the WI protestors are government union workers demanding the status quo and insisting that the people of the State cough up more money to the government for benefits that they can no longer afford.

The others are the gneral population protesting against the government.

I think if one wanted to compare the WI protests with the Egypt (and I personally think it's a pretty poor commparison) protest you would have to look at the union protestors as the group who were out trying to silence the will of the people.

Like President Obama said to the leader of Egypt he should listen to the will of the people, well it would be nice if he would take his own advise here. But no he mobalised his political arm to assult the will of the people of WI.

That's my take on it anyway.



Who's will should he listen to.  The people who voted OR the pople who are protesting in demonstration of a bill.  I think both are the will of the people.  Your bias is showing.

I am nuetral in this Wisconsin protest as I have no dog in the fight and understand where both sides are coming from.

I don't think I've ever tried to disguise where I'm coming from.

When I am speaking of the will of the people, I'm speaking of the majory of the people. The majority spoke in November, just because the CPUSA, the DNC, the Unions from around the country and President Obama's own polictical community organizing arm have brought in buss loads of people from around the nation to try and influence public perception, that doesn't represent that the majority of WI residents. 

A vocal minority is still a minority, no matter how many rules/laws they break and how loud they scream.

I did see one poll or at least heard of it that said the people of WI were against the bill, that poll was conducted by the AFLCIO. I'm sure it was a scientific and un-biased one.

 

2011-02-22 10:28 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Master
1795
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Boynton Beach, FL
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
Protesting is generally a positive sign that our democratic system is working.   Now that line gets crossed when you start to vist individuals homes and try to communicate with there family.   This is happeng more and more and I am suprised that more violence has not escalated because of it.  Would love to give media a show if protestors were on my lawn or trying to intimindate my kids inside.   Would not be pretty and law enforcement would have a large case of "oops" on there hands for not stepping in sooner.  

That said, I have a lot more respect for Tea Party who protested on their own dime and genuine concern for their Country.  WI protestors certainly have a vested interest in their mission and fact they are getting paid for it is not winning many supporters across the Country.   Democrats held majorities in the Legislature fo rpast 2+ years.   This was the case in majority of states as well.   Did you ever hear of GOP gettign up and walking out, better yet leaving the state?    This is the most cowardly of moves which again getting away from OP, but has a lot to do with lack of support across the County.   It is not an accurate portrail if you looka t the facts, but at face value it is the equivelent of a 3 year old not getting their desert and pounding there fists on the floor in fit of tears.   

Suck it up, get to work as you were elected to do and be part of the solution, not the problem.  


2011-02-22 10:29 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Champion
11989
500050001000500100100100100252525
Philly 'burbs
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
I wonder about protesting sometimes, or maybe I should qualify that as "picketing" if there is a difference. I sometimes see a handful of people with signs out in front of a mall or at a busy intersection and I wonder what difference it makes. Are they influencing policy makers? Do they think they are raising awareness? Half the time I don't even know what they are supporting and/or protesting.
2011-02-22 10:33 AM
in reply to: #3366675

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Pro
3906
20001000500100100100100
Libertyville, IL
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?

TriRSquared - 2011-02-22 9:00 AM Protest all you want.  However trying to compare Egypt to Wisconsin is like trying to compare apples to forklifts.
But, but...we are both protesting stuff!  Agree with this.

The ability to protest is a right we fortunately have here but we also have a voice with our vote in this country whereas thats not the case in many countries.  Protest is a tool and I think it can be great to bring the spotlight on an issue, but in a way its like turning on the lights at closing time in the bar- you might not like what you see under that scrutiny on either side of the fence and now others probably can see it better too.  I think on balance though turning on that light is better for many to get a second look at things before the hook up, er, i mean before legislation is passed or action is set in stone.

2011-02-22 10:34 AM
in reply to: #3366882

Iron Donkey
38643
50005000500050005000500050002000100050010025
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
crusevegas - 2011-02-22 10:17 AM

AddysDaddy - 2011-02-22 6:47 AM
crusevegas - 2011-02-22 8:37 AM

I think the biggest difference between the groups you have mentioned is that the WI protestors are government union workers demanding the status quo and insisting that the people of the State cough up more money to the government for benefits that they can no longer afford.

The others are the gneral population protesting against the government.

I think if one wanted to compare the WI protests with the Egypt (and I personally think it's a pretty poor commparison) protest you would have to look at the union protestors as the group who were out trying to silence the will of the people.

Like President Obama said to the leader of Egypt he should listen to the will of the people, well it would be nice if he would take his own advise here. But no he mobalised his political arm to assult the will of the people of WI.

That's my take on it anyway.



Who's will should he listen to.  The people who voted OR the pople who are protesting in demonstration of a bill.  I think both are the will of the people.  Your bias is showing.

I am nuetral in this Wisconsin protest as I have no dog in the fight and understand where both sides are coming from.

I don't think I've ever tried to disguise where I'm coming from.

When I am speaking of the will of the people, I'm speaking of the majory of the people. The majority spoke in November, just because the CPUSA, the DNC, the Unions from around the country and President Obama's own polictical community organizing arm have brought in buss loads of people from around the nation to try and influence public perception, that doesn't represent that the majority of WI residents. 

A vocal minority is still a minority, no matter how many rules/laws they break and how loud they scream.

...



I'm sure glad you weren't around when the Native Americans, African Americans, and women were shouting out for their freedom.

2011-02-22 10:36 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Champion
34263
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Chicago
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
Let them march! They're exercising a freedom that gets people murdered in Libya.
2011-02-22 10:42 AM
in reply to: #3366923

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Master
1920
1000500100100100100
Ann Arbor, MI
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
1stTimeTri - 2011-02-22 11:34 AM

crusevegas - 2011-02-22 10:17 AM

AddysDaddy - 2011-02-22 6:47 AM
crusevegas - 2011-02-22 8:37 AM

I think the biggest difference between the groups you have mentioned is that the WI protestors are government union workers demanding the status quo and insisting that the people of the State cough up more money to the government for benefits that they can no longer afford.

The others are the gneral population protesting against the government.

I think if one wanted to compare the WI protests with the Egypt (and I personally think it's a pretty poor commparison) protest you would have to look at the union protestors as the group who were out trying to silence the will of the people.

Like President Obama said to the leader of Egypt he should listen to the will of the people, well it would be nice if he would take his own advise here. But no he mobalised his political arm to assult the will of the people of WI.

That's my take on it anyway.



Who's will should he listen to.  The people who voted OR the pople who are protesting in demonstration of a bill.  I think both are the will of the people.  Your bias is showing.

I am nuetral in this Wisconsin protest as I have no dog in the fight and understand where both sides are coming from.

I don't think I've ever tried to disguise where I'm coming from.

When I am speaking of the will of the people, I'm speaking of the majory of the people. The majority spoke in November, just because the CPUSA, the DNC, the Unions from around the country and President Obama's own polictical community organizing arm have brought in buss loads of people from around the nation to try and influence public perception, that doesn't represent that the majority of WI residents. 

A vocal minority is still a minority, no matter how many rules/laws they break and how loud they scream.

...



I'm sure glad you weren't around when the Native Americans, African Americans, and women were shouting out for their freedom.



x 1,000,000,000


2011-02-22 10:45 AM
in reply to: #3366882

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Champion
34263
500050005000500050005000200020001001002525
Chicago
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
crusevegas - 2011-02-22 10:17 AM

AddysDaddy - 2011-02-22 6:47 AM
crusevegas - 2011-02-22 8:37 AM

I think the biggest difference between the groups you have mentioned is that the WI protestors are government union workers demanding the status quo and insisting that the people of the State cough up more money to the government for benefits that they can no longer afford.

The others are the gneral population protesting against the government.

I think if one wanted to compare the WI protests with the Egypt (and I personally think it's a pretty poor commparison) protest you would have to look at the union protestors as the group who were out trying to silence the will of the people.

Like President Obama said to the leader of Egypt he should listen to the will of the people, well it would be nice if he would take his own advise here. But no he mobalised his political arm to assult the will of the people of WI.

That's my take on it anyway.



Who's will should he listen to.  The people who voted OR the pople who are protesting in demonstration of a bill.  I think both are the will of the people.  Your bias is showing.

I am nuetral in this Wisconsin protest as I have no dog in the fight and understand where both sides are coming from.

I don't think I've ever tried to disguise where I'm coming from.

When I am speaking of the will of the people, I'm speaking of the majory of the people. The majority spoke in November, just because the CPUSA, the DNC, the Unions from around the country and President Obama's own polictical community organizing arm have brought in buss loads of people from around the nation to try and influence public perception, that doesn't represent that the majority of WI residents. 

A vocal minority is still a minority, no matter how many rules/laws they break and how loud they scream.

I did see one poll or at least heard of it that said the people of WI were against the bill, that poll was conducted by the AFLCIO. I'm sure it was a scientific and un-biased one.

 



Danged minorities and wanting their rights and such!
2011-02-22 10:49 AM
in reply to: #3366923

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Pro
3906
20001000500100100100100
Libertyville, IL
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?

1stTimeTri - 2011-02-22 10:34 AM
crusevegas - 2011-02-22 10:17 AM

AddysDaddy - 2011-02-22 6:47 AM
crusevegas - 2011-02-22 8:37 AM

I think the biggest difference between the groups you have mentioned is that the WI protestors are government union workers demanding the status quo and insisting that the people of the State cough up more money to the government for benefits that they can no longer afford.

The others are the gneral population protesting against the government.

I think if one wanted to compare the WI protests with the Egypt (and I personally think it's a pretty poor commparison) protest you would have to look at the union protestors as the group who were out trying to silence the will of the people.

Like President Obama said to the leader of Egypt he should listen to the will of the people, well it would be nice if he would take his own advise here. But no he mobalised his political arm to assult the will of the people of WI.

That's my take on it anyway.



Who's will should he listen to.  The people who voted OR the pople who are protesting in demonstration of a bill.  I think both are the will of the people.  Your bias is showing.

I am nuetral in this Wisconsin protest as I have no dog in the fight and understand where both sides are coming from.

I don't think I've ever tried to disguise where I'm coming from.

When I am speaking of the will of the people, I'm speaking of the majory of the people. The majority spoke in November, just because the CPUSA, the DNC, the Unions from around the country and President Obama's own polictical community organizing arm have brought in buss loads of people from around the nation to try and influence public perception, that doesn't represent that the majority of WI residents. 

A vocal minority is still a minority, no matter how many rules/laws they break and how loud they scream.

...



I'm sure glad you weren't around when the Native Americans, African Americans, and women were shouting out for their freedom.

You dont think this is a bit intellectually lazy to try and make an apples to oranges comparison pertaining to Wisconsin and the fact that there is a democratic system in place?  Really its this kind of melodrama and sloppy thought that tries to push me from the middle.  You can do better than this.

2011-02-22 10:50 AM
in reply to: #3366517

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Master
4101
20002000100
Denver
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?
I'm pro-protesting and also pro-protesting protesting because I love irony, however I'm anti protesting protesting protesting and also anti-antitesting. 
2011-02-22 10:52 AM
in reply to: #3366971

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Pro
3906
20001000500100100100100
Libertyville, IL
Subject: RE: Protesting good or bad?

drewb8 - 2011-02-22 10:50 AM I'm pro-protesting and also pro-protesting protesting because I love irony, however I'm anti protesting protesting protesting and also anti-antitesting. 
i am pro-protesting pre and post games.

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