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The catch, high elbow made simple!
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 2014-03-11 7:40 PM |
New user  230   penticton |  Subject: The catch, high elbow made simple! i had a few people asking me about some swim tips...but i have to say it s very complicated when your frenglish to write down good explanation. so here s a video on a few tips to improve your swimming... that can be done at home in your living room!!! if that can help any of you... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1KReTEXiBM Edited by jonnyo 2014-03-11 7:41 PM |
| 2014-03-12 12:00 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Extreme Veteran 1704  Penticton, BC | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Thanks for the video. I'll try it at the pool tomorrow. Nice view of Skaha too. |
| 2014-03-12 5:27 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Champion 7036  Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! |
| 2014-03-12 6:07 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Master 1526 Bolivia, NC | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! SImple yet effective, thanks. |
| 2014-03-12 7:13 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Very cool, thanks Jonnyo for posting this on BT! All those small muscles are feeling it after 10 reps and my left side it just plain feels weird! |
| 2014-03-12 8:21 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
| Member 206 Roswell | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Thanks for posting. I have been working on my high elbow catch since November. This gives me a good way to visualize my arm position. |
| 2014-03-12 9:20 AM in reply to: chrishatcher1138 |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Thanks! I really like the part about going right into the catch and not over-extending (think I might be a bit guilty there from trying to "swim tall"). I do wonder, though, about extension. Do you rotate fully just as you start the catch? If so, I might need to start the rotation a bit earlier... By the way, I swear you're the reincarnation of my hockey coach from 40 years ago! Total doppelganger… Thanks again. Matt |
| 2014-03-12 9:22 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana Gold member | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Nice description of a largely misunderstood topic! |
| 2014-03-12 9:42 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Pure awesomeness Jonnyo! Now, if I could just move my arm that way... Matt--I have totally been over-extending too. So guilty:/
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| 2014-03-12 9:48 AM in reply to: switch |
Master 1858 Salt Lake City | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by switch Pure awesomeness Jonnyo! Now, if I could just move my arm that way... Matt--I have totally been over-extending too. So guilty:/
Me too, and I didn't realize it until I watched this video. |
| 2014-03-12 10:11 AM in reply to: JZig |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by JZig Originally posted by switch Me too, and I didn't realize it until I watched this video. Pure awesomeness Jonnyo! Now, if I could just move my arm that way... Matt--I have totally been over-extending too. So guilty:/
Scott had that great article posted last week about the catch, rotation and hand entry and now this great video by Jonnyo. I'm a little bit confused about how to tie them together. When my hand enters the water, my arm still has some bend in it and I haven't rotated fully. If I started my catch there I'd be swimming pretty short and choppy. Jonnyo, Scott, others? Could you say a little bit more about the hand entry/extension/rotatiion/catch timing? Jonnyo, from your video I'm thinking you have a pretty straight arm and entry if you go right into your catch. Is that right?
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| 2014-03-12 10:15 AM in reply to: JZig |
| Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Me three for overextending. Thanks for the excellent explanation and demonstration! |
| 2014-03-12 10:55 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Veteran 1384 Panama City, FL | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Very nice. Love the visual of elbow rotating and not feeling like you're over-reaching upon entry. |
| 2014-03-12 11:09 AM in reply to: taylorz13 |
| Member 763 | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! I think I'm another for over-reaching. Thanks for the video - this definitely helps. Now if I can only implement this in my next visit to the pool....that's the hard part, eh? |
| 2014-03-12 11:09 AM in reply to: 0 |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana Gold member | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by switch Scott had that great article posted last week about the catch, rotation and hand entry and now this great video by Jonnyo. I'm a little bit confused about how to tie them together. When my hand enters the water, my arm still has some bend in it and I haven't rotated fully. If I started my catch there I'd be swimming pretty short and choppy. Jonnyo, Scott, others? Could you say a little bit more about the hand entry/extension/rotatiion/catch timing? Jonnyo, from your video I'm thinking you have a pretty straight arm and entry if you go right into your catch. Is that right? Elesa, I think we are both saying essentially the same thing, albeit using a bit different terminology. If you note in his video, when he demonstrates the high elbow, his hand and fingers pretty much go into the position that I describe in my article. I know I said a couple times in my article, "Fingertips below wrist below elbow," the same position he is demonstrating. On the extension, I think you can attribute a bit of the 'difference' to the fact that he is on dry land so you don't see a water line. It appears to me when he 'enters' the water, he has a significant bend still in his elbow. As to body roll, again, if you look at the video, you can see that his shoulders are indeed "rolling into the stroke." In my article, I don't explicitly say not glide, but pretty clearing indicate you enter, finish the entry with rotation without over-reaching, and then go immediately into the catch. Also recall that I caution against over-rotation/over-extension, for precisely the same reasons as those in the video. Like I said, we are both saying the same thing. Edited by k9car363 2014-03-12 11:10 AM |
| 2014-03-12 11:15 AM in reply to: k9car363 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by k9car363 . Originally posted by switch Scott had that great article posted last week about the catch, rotation and hand entry and now this great video by Jonnyo. I'm a little bit confused about how to tie them together. When my hand enters the water, my arm still has some bend in it and I haven't rotated fully. If I started my catch there I'd be swimming pretty short and choppy. Jonnyo, Scott, others? Could you say a little bit more about the hand entry/extension/rotatiion/catch timing? Jonnyo, from your video I'm thinking you have a pretty straight arm and entry if you go right into your catch. Is that right? Elesa, I think we are both saying essentially the same thing, albeit using a bit different terminology. If you note in his video, when he demonstrates the high elbow, his hand and fingers pretty much go into the position that I describe in my article. I know I said a couple times in my article, "Fingertips below wrist below elbow," the same position he is demonstrating. On the extension, I think you can attribute a bit of the 'difference' to the fact that he is on dry land so you don't see a water line. It appears to me when he 'enters' the water, he has a significant bend still in his elbow. As to body roll, again, if you look at the video, you can see that his shoulders are indeed "rolling into the stroke." In my article, I don't explicitly say not glide, but pretty clearing indicate you enter, finish the entry with rotation without over-reaching, and then go immediately into the catch. Also recall that I caution against over-rotation/over-extension, for precisely the same reasons as those in the video. Like I said, we are both saying the same thing. Thanks for your clarification:) I'm just having trouble with timing my rotation with a good EVF. I think it's precisely because my shoulders do not want to do what Jonnyo is showing it that video. I'll keep working on it.
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| 2014-03-12 1:07 PM in reply to: switch |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by switch Thanks for your clarification I'm just having trouble with timing my rotation with a good EVF. I think it's precisely because my shoulders do not want to do what Jonnyo is showing it that video. I'll keep working on it.
Jonnyo's video is really good, but the best part IMO is the visual at the very end with the swiss ball. No offense b/c the preceding stuff is good as well, but not everyone will be able to move their shoulder in that way without injury or strain no matter how much they work on it. Just because one person was able to "work on it" and get it down doesn't mean that YOU will be able to or that you should. You can make really great improvements in your catch & stroke without being the picture perfect model he describes. (And isn't that a great relief?) Some folks may have been able to do this move as kids or teens, but never having grown up swimming, they have accumulated stiffness in their joints, tendons & muscles due to age and lifestyle. MOST adult triathletes never DID have that kind of flexibility. What you see him doing requires both flexibililty in the shoulder joint as well as in the scapula. If the move doesn't feel comfortable, then there are surrounding soft tissue structures at best, and bony structures at worst that are limiting your range of motion. Rather than "keep working at it" and risking the weakest areas getting overstretched or injured I would suggest 2 courses of action...and accept that you many never look as good as he does doing this. #1: Jump right to the swiss ball exercise. GO GET A SWISS BALL of a large diameter and simply kneel down and drape your leading arm over it. Everyone will be able to find an angle that feels comfortable. Starting to rotate the torso while the arm drapes can also help when the shoulder joint doesn't allow the movement as well. #2: Go get some soft tissue work and massage focusing on the pecs and the scapular muscles, possibly the traps & lats as well. In our modern society sitting, texting, driving, computer work all discourages healthy shoulder joints. Pecs get tight, shoulder blades get locked down and the entire shoulder girdle loses mobility. You'll need to work with what you've got, and pain or discomfort with a movement like this suggests that the problem is not that you don't understand it or that you'r not there yet and eed to practice more, it suggests in most cases that your surrounding soft tissue structures...ones taht are not causing you any discomfort because they have 'locked down' and taken over, are the culprits. Work these outside of the pool. Be accepting of a "mostly early slightly less than vertical forearm" like you see in the Swiss Ball Drape. And you'll start building a better catch and stroke from teh "inside out". Working with your body doing the best it can and then adapting as mobility improves, rather than trying to achieve an ideal version taht your body is not currently adapted for. |
| 2014-03-12 1:33 PM in reply to: jonnyo |
Master 1736 Midcoast Maine | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Absolutely fantastic. Explanation (frenglish or not) was clear and something I can do during countless conference calls while sitting at my desk. Thanks! |
| 2014-03-12 1:37 PM in reply to: AdventureBear |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by switch Jonnyo's video is really good, but the best part IMO is the visual at the very end with the swiss ball. No offense b/c the preceding stuff is good as well, but not everyone will be able to move their shoulder in that way without injury or strain no matter how much they work on it. Just because one person was able to "work on it" and get it down doesn't mean that YOU will be able to or that you should. You can make really great improvements in your catch & stroke without being the picture perfect model he describes. (And isn't that a great relief?) Some folks may have been able to do this move as kids or teens, but never having grown up swimming, they have accumulated stiffness in their joints, tendons & muscles due to age and lifestyle. MOST adult triathletes never DID have that kind of flexibility. What you see him doing requires both flexibililty in the shoulder joint as well as in the scapula. If the move doesn't feel comfortable, then there are surrounding soft tissue structures at best, and bony structures at worst that are limiting your range of motion. Rather than "keep working at it" and risking the weakest areas getting overstretched or injured I would suggest 2 courses of action...and accept that you many never look as good as he does doing this. #1: Jump right to the swiss ball exercise. GO GET A SWISS BALL of a large diameter and simply kneel down and drape your leading arm over it. Everyone will be able to find an angle that feels comfortable. Starting to rotate the torso while the arm drapes can also help when the shoulder joint doesn't allow the movement as well. #2: Go get some soft tissue work and massage focusing on the pecs and the scapular muscles, possibly the traps & lats as well. In our modern society sitting, texting, driving, computer work all discourages healthy shoulder joints. Pecs get tight, shoulder blades get locked down and the entire shoulder girdle loses mobility. You'll need to work with what you've got, and pain or discomfort with a movement like this suggests that the problem is not that you don't understand it or that you'r not there yet and eed to practice more, it suggests in most cases that your surrounding soft tissue structures...ones taht are not causing you any discomfort because they have 'locked down' and taken over, are the culprits. Work these outside of the pool. Be accepting of a "mostly early slightly less than vertical forearm" like you see in the Swiss Ball Drape. And you'll start building a better catch and stroke from teh "inside out". Working with your body doing the best it can and then adapting as mobility improves, rather than trying to achieve an ideal version taht your body is not currently adapted for. Thanks for your clarification I'm just having trouble with timing my rotation with a good EVF. I think it's precisely because my shoulders do not want to do what Jonnyo is showing it that video. I'll keep working on it.
Good points. As one who is not blessed with an ideal swimmer's physique, I've had shoulder issues when trying to work on an early catch with a high elbow. Years of weight lifting and pushups restrict my delts rotating forward. One of my challenges has always been finding a sweet spot between my body rotation and arm extension that allows me to catch as early as I can and be able to pull with my lats. My "normal" stroke includes more of an extension and glide to accomplish that. I'm probably 80% TI and 20% Sheila Taormina. Mark |
| 2014-03-12 2:21 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Master 4452 | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! I was thinking about this in the pool this AM and for the first time really felt the 'over the barrel' feeling. Thanks! |
| 2014-03-12 2:29 PM in reply to: AdventureBear |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by switch Jonnyo's video is really good, but the best part IMO is the visual at the very end with the swiss ball. No offense b/c the preceding stuff is good as well, but not everyone will be able to move their shoulder in that way without injury or strain no matter how much they work on it. Just because one person was able to "work on it" and get it down doesn't mean that YOU will be able to or that you should. You can make really great improvements in your catch & stroke without being the picture perfect model he describes. (And isn't that a great relief?) Some folks may have been able to do this move as kids or teens, but never having grown up swimming, they have accumulated stiffness in their joints, tendons & muscles due to age and lifestyle. MOST adult triathletes never DID have that kind of flexibility. What you see him doing requires both flexibililty in the shoulder joint as well as in the scapula. If the move doesn't feel comfortable, then there are surrounding soft tissue structures at best, and bony structures at worst that are limiting your range of motion. Rather than "keep working at it" and risking the weakest areas getting overstretched or injured I would suggest 2 courses of action...and accept that you many never look as good as he does doing this. #1: Jump right to the swiss ball exercise. GO GET A SWISS BALL of a large diameter and simply kneel down and drape your leading arm over it. Everyone will be able to find an angle that feels comfortable. Starting to rotate the torso while the arm drapes can also help when the shoulder joint doesn't allow the movement as well. #2: Go get some soft tissue work and massage focusing on the pecs and the scapular muscles, possibly the traps & lats as well. In our modern society sitting, texting, driving, computer work all discourages healthy shoulder joints. Pecs get tight, shoulder blades get locked down and the entire shoulder girdle loses mobility. You'll need to work with what you've got, and pain or discomfort with a movement like this suggests that the problem is not that you don't understand it or that you'r not there yet and eed to practice more, it suggests in most cases that your surrounding soft tissue structures...ones taht are not causing you any discomfort because they have 'locked down' and taken over, are the culprits. Work these outside of the pool. Be accepting of a "mostly early slightly less than vertical forearm" like you see in the Swiss Ball Drape. And you'll start building a better catch and stroke from teh "inside out". Working with your body doing the best it can and then adapting as mobility improves, rather than trying to achieve an ideal version taht your body is not currently adapted for. Thanks for your clarification:) I'm just having trouble with timing my rotation with a good EVF. I think it's precisely because my shoulders do not want to do what Jonnyo is showing it that video. I'll keep working on it.
Thank you very, very much for your post Suzanne. I really appreciate it. When I saw Jonnyo move his shoulder like that I laughed and thought that it looked very cool and, quite possibly for me, physically impossible. I am fairly muscular, and my shoulder flexibility just sucks. (Some of you may remember a post form last year where someone was desperately looking for a back lotion applicator for post-swim--yeah, me) Everywhere else I am quite flexible, but my shoulders are very TIGHT. I will follow points #1 and #2 and approach this, as you suggested, "from the inside out".
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| 2014-03-12 2:36 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by RedCorvette One of my challenges has always been finding a sweet spot between my body rotation and arm extension that allows me to catch as early as I can and be able to pull with my lats. My "normal" stroke includes more of an extension and glide to accomplish that. I'm probably 80% TI and 20% Sheila Taormina. Mark There you go. Everyone has to work within their limits. I teach people the least stressful way first and then as the coordination develops we can work on improving it for earlier catch/longer stroke. Backing into an EVF so to speak...it's much less likely to cause shoulder injuries that way. Lots of shoulders could be made happier this way. : ) |
| 2014-03-12 2:38 PM in reply to: switch |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by switch Thank you very, very much for your post Suzanne. I really appreciate it. When I saw Jonnyo move his shoulder like that I laughed and thought that it looked very cool and, quite possibly for me, physically impossible. I am fairly muscular, and my shoulder flexibility just sucks. (Some of you may remember a post form last year where someone was desperately looking for a back lotion applicator for post-swim--yeah, me) Everywhere else I am quite flexible, but my shoulders are very TIGHT. I will follow points #1 and #2 and approach this, as you suggested, "from the inside out".
Super! I am not wanting to take anything away from the original post as it's very clear and concise. All that swimming knowledge packed in a brief 3 min video. But with a broader understanding everyone can take from it what they need.  |
| 2014-03-12 3:28 PM in reply to: jonnyo |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! Originally posted by jonnyo so here s a video on a few tips to improve your swimming... that can be done at home in your living room!!! if that can help any of you... Thanks Jonnyo, Technical question. I followed the video to the last detail. How do I get the black dots off my elbows ? :-) |
| 2014-03-12 3:57 PM in reply to: AdventureBear |
Champion 10550 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: The catch, high elbow made simple! HUGE thanks for posting this Jonnyo, I'm another one that's guilty of over-reaching so this is certainly something to think about during my next swim workout. Suzanne, HUGE thanks to you as well for your input! Off to go find a swiss ball... |
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