SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 100)

Something I'm still working on is being able to better determine when VO2 would be more beneficial. Think I'm flat from FTP to 5 min in that chart, but I don't really work VO2 that often. Arend's even commented that I seem to run a lower percent of FTP than expected when I do. Just touching it every once in awhile with a good deal of threshold level effort seems to keep pushing everything up. Definitely want more of a time trialer profile, but still want a little something to attack the hills a bit.

And Nicole, that does actually seem fairly strong. Maybe find some of the training peaks files for the pro tri women. A lot of guys would really like to be able to make even something like Pete Jacobs IM effort of like 290-295.

Thanks, I'll read through that article.

My estimated power to weight ratio for my FTP (using the 5min and 20min tests) puts me right at 3.5, which I am pretty happy with given only a year of real training.  My 5min is a bit lower on the chart, falling at 3.8.  I remember reading at some point on ST that if your 5MP is within ~10% (I think) of your FTP that you would benefit from "raising the roof" before you could "raise the ceiling".  

Given four days on the bike (two 60-70 min, one 90ish min, and one as long as I feel like), I feel like it may be beneficial to devote two of those to VO2max work, one to threshold, and one to sweet spot -- sound reasonable? 

How do I do that?  I haven't used TP a ton -- can I search other peoples' logs?  Do I need the Premium account?

Yeesh.  I shouldn't be surprised, but that chart is evil.  

I go from "untrained" (OUCH) to looooooow Cat 5 to mid-Cat 3 (for the 5 min and 1hr) on a W/kg basis.  Guess I need some low end work!  I don't really ever sprint anymore, so not sure if the low end numbers are representative - but you can bet I'm going to go after a couple of town lines and see what happens...

Matt

Like I said, the vibe is unreal.  And I've got a new fan. 

(Jason and Chrissie.jpg)

Well, for that you want to take a look at what you need to develop. And for a triathlete, regardless of the distance, it's going to be threshold power. So you want the workouts to concentrate on that. Doesn't mean every workout is there, but done with that in mind. Sometimes over, up into VO2 to push that up higher, sometimes under and lots more riding to generate more overall aerobic stress.

And sweet spot is usually good to put in, but know that it's more like a useful tool as opposed to a point to develop. It's not actually a zone or a condition like the others are. It's an area that gives a quite bit of benefit for the time put in, an area that one can put a fair amount of time in, and can usually recover fairly well from. Some people throw it in for the heck of it as say 2 x 15-20' because they hear it's good. That's fine, but I might work up to 90-120 minutes of it in a single workout at times. I'm not saying it's necessary to do that, just that it's quite possible. Look at it as part of the whole plan.

And for the power files, I just google around for them. No special account needed. Here is one for Rachel Joyce, who usually does rather well at Kona. Here is a page with a number of people. Some featured and more in a less obvious list down lower. Something I just noticed is that the women seem to be WAY higher in TSS than the men. Guys were coming in 280-290, but the women like 375-380. Wow.

Pretty much the same for me for a profile.  I guess that explains why I had my a$$ handed to me in the sprint finish of the last bike race.

Awesome stuff. It looks like you're having a great time.

There is a chance, but there are 3 of them on there and all 3 are around 380. Now that I think about it, this is not the first time I've heard of that. How the women are able to hold a higher percent than extended as they extend out. Or they have a flatter power curve in relation to duration. I just hadn't looked at the TSS before to see where that ended up. IF ends up at 0.83-0.85 I think.

Women are just tougher than us.

There, I said it.  

Jason - looks like you're having a great time.  Keep enjoying it.

Good discussion on power + I like the one in TT as well.  Question - do most of you spend your time riding the trainer in aero, or do you just ride the trainer in whatever position suits you.  I'm thinking about spending more time in aero on the trainer, but typcially struggle a bit with the position on a static bike, while I seem fine outside.  Thinking I just need to get used to it.

Jason - I just dipped in to wish you good luck and find out your bib number.

Best. Biib. Number. Post. Ever.

That is awesome!

If any of you ever get in the market for a new trainer AND you find yourself having to do your long road simulation rides on the trainer I cannot recommend the KK rock and roll (with the pro flywheel option) enough. The video promos where they show the rider out of the saddle rocking back and forth are extremely goofy - but I have mine locked all the way down so that it hardly moves at all and I cannot even begin to describe the difference over my old cyclops or my wife's regular KK. I do think the "rock & roll" part is kinda gimmicky, but the elastomers also allow for the subtlest of vertical motion even when locked down that make for a dreamy ride. And the big flywheel is crazy smooth, but it does make out of the saddle hard sprints "interesting." The downside is that it is very big and bulky and does not break down as easily as most trainers - it doesn't fold up and you actually have to remove a couple of bolts to break it down. So it is not a good travel trainer from that perspective - that is really the only reason I recent bought a different one as I am on the road a lot. But it is still my go-to trainer when I am home and for some reason have to do a longish trainer ride.

I also whole-heartedly agree that while power is a GREAT way to do interval training (ESPECIALLY on the trainer), but it is a rather kludge tool for long course pacing. Conceptually pacing by effort is the holy grail, but I guess until they come out with instantaneous blood lactate meters we are stuck with all the other tools. Using a device that measures output (power) to infer input (effort) will by nature only be approximate at best and you have found it to be best utilized when bracket edit against other tools that are better proxies for input (HR, RPE, etc).

I stay aero when possible on the trainer but I can't manage for nearly as long as I can outside.  I did a 30' interval this morning and lasted until the 20' mark.  Outside I can last much much longer.

Everything that folks already have already mentioned with regards to pacing a long distance race I agree with.

From a training persepective, the reason most people, me included, do the 5 minute and 20 minute tests on a regular basis is that it is a very straighforward repeatable test that verifies whether or not your training is working appropriately. 

If I am blasting myself on the bike for 4-6 weeks and do not show any increase in those numbers, then maybe I need to try something else. 

From a running perspective, I much prefer to race often and plug in my VDOT.  I have trouble suffering through a run test on my own and all that does is give me crap data to train with.

On a different note, I have been sufficiently convinced to go the PT route w/ DT Swiss and wheelcover.  I did not even have to convince the wife much .  Thanks for the input on that subject, it helped.