Nov 15-Dec 15 "Swim Speed Secrets" Book Club (Page 11)

Canada Post sucks and I haven't gotten them yet.  

I wonder if it's the kind of thing you can adjust by how much you preload the band--how far away you stand from whatever it's attached to? I suppose if the resistance is too high you can't make it easier, but maybe you can effectively make the lighter bands feel heavier by standing further away??

Originally posted by switch   Please update us when you try them.

I wonder if it's the kind of thing you can adjust by how much you preload the band--how far away you stand from whatever it's attached to? I suppose if the resistance is too high you can't make it easier, but maybe you can effectively make the lighter bands feel heavier by standing further away??

It must be possible to a point, the red ones are rated as 12 - 31 lbs.  That seems like a pretty wide range so there must be something you can do.

Some days you "have it" and some days you don't.  Not too long ago, I did my fastest 500 ever (it was the third 500 of a 3x500 set).  About two weeks later, I was asked to do a 500 for time, so I thought maybe I could improve on it.  I was about 10 seconds slower (if I recall correctly).  Part of that may be attributed to the fact that the set before that 500 was a 200 kick, but part of it may well be that it just wasn't my best day.

Since you took a week off, take some time to get back into swimming....then find a time to try again.  Or maybe try something different....you mentioned that your 100 time had improved, so maybe try to work on holding that 100 time for x number of repeats....or see if you can improve the 100 time.

Did everyone see the video that AdventureBear posted in TriTalk?  it's a pretty good example of someone who should read this book.    Also, based on Suzanne's comments in the thread, it shows how much an underwater video can show that what you think you are doing may not be (probably isn't) what you are really doing.

I thought it was an excellent video and analysis -- I was actually thinking about it as I was swimming this morning.  And it really makes me want to get underwater video of myself to see what I'm doing.  I suspect things feel different than they look!

So I've returned to the pool this week after a roughly three month layoff with lots of info bouncing around in my head (SSS, Gerry's video, etc.).  So far, it has been a miserable experience.  Now, of course I expected this to a certain degree, but I'm finding that I can't even get the basics right to try to start implementing some of the concepts stored up in my noggin.  My breath timing is all off and I have zero feel for where my legs are, much less any kick.  I'm also switching back to bilateral breathing (as opposed to my natural 4-stroke breathing...yes, I know ).

So the question I would pose to the group is:  is there a baseline level of proficiency AND fitness required before an athlete should start working on their swim stroke?

My thought is that you need to be able to get through a decent swim session (say, I dunno...30-40 solid minutes or 1200-1500y) before any technique work is going to help.

Thoughts?

Maybe I don't quite understand what is meant by "swim stroke", but you start working on that from the get go. The specific parts worked on may change or vary over time, but you're always working on something.

One exception I can think of is if you're injured in a manner that affects your stroke.

Mike, that's an interesting question.  How do you define technique work?  Drills?

If you are swimming, you should be working on your swim stroke at all times.  In fact, I believe the best time to really solidify a good stroke is to focus on it when you are tired.  Having good technique while fresh and rested is great but being able to dig in and maintain your form when the going gets tough is what really helps in the long run.

I guess what I mean is attempting to make adjustments to my current, albeit flawed, technique, which I can't even really perform yet because I haven't been near a pool in three months.

An example would be the focus on the high elbow when I can't even time my breathing correctly and my legs are flailing all over the place.

Not necessarily...I'm talking about focusing on a specific (or multiple) technique changes while swimming. 

I agree on the focus when you're tired.  That's when all hell breaks loose for me and I start using brute force to keep my paces up.

Well, that's part of your swim stroke too.  

You are right in the sense that you can't work on too many things at once.  Spend some time on those issues but don't be afraid to work on the techniques of the pull as well.  You may find that doing so helps correct the other timing issues you are having - maybe not too but I think it's worth trying.

Mike, I wonder if any of these might help:

Do short repeats, 50s and 75s at first and take a decent RI

Maybe alternate swim and pull sets, just to give yourself sometime to focus on the pull

Add in drill or kick sets to give yourself reminders of good position.  So instead of a structure like WU, Drill, MS, CD you might try, WU, repeats with drills interspersed for your MS, CD

Try breathing every two instead of every three, just to make sure oxygen isn't a limiter

Of course, with any of my recommendations, I would love for the "real swimmers" to chime in, as I always second-guess any swimming suggestions I give :)

I also see SnappingT recommend fins a lot for people getting back into the pool, I haven't tried that, but I wonder if that might help you?

I don't want to make it a TI vs SSS debate but Suzanne (the coach) is a TI instructor which has a somewhat different philosophy.  Notice she focuses on balance, body position, hand position etc.  She also says in her comments on the thread that she has told him many times about his lack of a high elbow, it just doesn't seem to be as high on the priority list.  

Sheila is saying forget all that and fix your pull first as it is the most important.  It's just two different approaches.  

Haven't seen much of the vid yet to confirm, but was going to point that out as well.

When things seem to be getting out of hand, slowing it down into something like a catch-up drill for a bit has helped. Or using the pull buoy to help get the front part more under control again. From what TJ has said, a number of issues come from something in the front half, so calming it down and putting things together again has helped me out there.

I would think there's somewhat of an order or priority to work on things, but not entirely sure what it all should be. Would think just being comfortable moving in the water should be up there for someone starting out (or starting up again).

Can someone explain (if possible??) how to feel the difference between "extending" and "gliding"?  I just finished reading the main part of the book (still have some appendices left to read) and the section where she talked about stroke rate really hit home.  I went back through some of my old swim workouts on Garmin Connect and it looks like my stroke rate is closer to 2 sec / stroke....nowhere close to the 1.2 - 1.6 sec / stroke (granted, I am swimming in a 25m pool, not a 50m pool....and the 910 can only tell me the number of strokes per length, not actually calculate my stroke rate).

So it's clear to me that I'm probably gliding too much, but I can't seem to figure out how to start my pull earlier -- I feel like I'm only gliding for as long as it takes me to extend my arm out front, but it's still probably too long.

I thought the book was pretty good, but I don't know how effective learning to swim (and/or correct flaws) from a book is.  I feel like I really need someone to give me immediate feedback and manipulate my arms to show me what in the world I'm supposed to be doing!  Sadly, Sheila put on a clinic at my pool about a year ago, but I didn't know about it until afterwards.

To me, the difference between gliding and extending is simply what else is happening while that front arm is out there.  Getting your arm out in front and then finishing up your body rotation while rotating your shoulder out to load up the right muscles is extending.  Gliding is having that arm out there but there is no other functional movement going on at the same time - you've already rotated your body and shoulder (hopefully) and you have a little pause at that point.

If you truly are gliding then you need to eliminate it.  There are other possible causes for a slow turnover though.  I see people at my pool that have a v.e.r.y slow recovery (and likely slow pull but the recovery seems worse).

Hah, still not entirely sure if I glide or if I'm just extending.  I suspect there's some glide action going on....underwater video would probably be extremely helpful to figure that out!  Maybe someone in my master's group has an underwater video camera.  On second thought, would you be able to tell anything from above water video?  I'm sure any of the coaches would be able to pull out a smart phone and shoot some video...

Well, it would be better than nothing but you miss a lot.  Going back to that video in Tri Talk, if you were to only watch the above water stuff you would probably say he has a pretty decent stroke but below you see some big flaws.

My swim coach friend sent me these two videos the other day, and I thought they were really helpful for visualizing the catch--the first one features our very own S.T. on the halo bench and the second one is Karlyn Pipes.  I think her video is good both for the catch and the glide/extension conversation.  If you just saw her hand you might say "glide" but look at the rest of her body (shoulder, lat, hips) and see the work going on while that arm's out front.   Love that straight, straight, straight hand to arm transition.  Beautiful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENgIRfj1l4c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bPvk0paWcg