SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 110)

I hear that!!!  But, when I signed up last Nov I knew what I was getting into as far as late fall training weather here in northwest WI

Modified a 3 x 20' sweet spot plus 45' 85-90% workout to fit into a pair of sufferfest vids. And it seems to work rather well. Can't wait to try this after essentially watching a movie and then getting into this.

Going for a swim later.

Cause I was stupid.  I knew better but decided to chase my mileage goal for the week.

When I had my first bought of ITB I went to an ART specialist based on a recommendation of a friend who had been to everyone and done everything until she fixed him.  After a few sessions and no real improvement I looked for something else.  Went into the LRS to ask about anyone local that could help, and it so happened I talked with the contracted masseuse they had at the location at the time.  Saw her for one session and she fixed me - I've been seeing her ever since.

woke up this morning to 60 and heavy fog.  Brought the swim stuff to coffee even though I'd already decided not to OWS.

Headed off for our hour run, just me and a friend going to Miami 70.3 and then NY marathon the week after.   About 15 minutes in I screwed something up on the garmin and decided just to shut it off.  We ran by feel and just talked.   Came across a guy at about mile 75 of the EC 100 mile run, Corona Cal. to Santa Monica pier.  Ran with him for a bit, then left him as he walked.

It was honestly a great way to run, not tethered to time or pace.   Hope to do more of that in the off season.

Easy week up to Miami

After sitting on it for Months, I finally used Marc's 2 week TP premium code.  Can someone tell me the best graphs to pay attention to (already added PMC), especially if there is anything for power profiling.

Thanks

Did something similar Saturday.  Had a long sleeve on with thumb holes and it was a couple degrees above freezing, so I had my thumbs in them.  Covered the Garmin, so I decided to do the whole run by feel.  It flet harder than I thought I was going, but then saw my pace and realized it was spot on - I was just feeling slower than I was going, but kept a nice steady pace throughout.

Definitely good practice.  And kinda nice not to be in my own head with the numbers.  Did a ride of a couple hours Sunday similarly and enjoyed it more than many recent ones...

Matt

And for those REALLY fun long treadmill runs (when it's just too icy out), there's also GU every 30-45 minutes!  Yay.  

Not looking forward to another snowy winter.  Maybe this one will be like 2 years ago and see me inside almost never.  One can only hope...

Matt

You can do it.  Set your mind to joining my "always run outside" club!

Originally posted by ligersandtions Alright, so I'm probably annoying with my power questions, but I figure a handful of people in here are willing to talk power any chance they're given Is there a "best" (better? worse?) way to set up VO2max workouts? Would it be better to have a bunch of short (1 min?) intervals at 120% versus a few longer (5 min?) intervals at 106%? Is there an optimal amount of time to spend in the VO2max zone during a single workout? What about threshold? 2x20 @ FTP seems to be the bread and butter....but I tend to prefer something like 2-3x12 over/unders because it's more manageable physically and mentally for me. I imagine the optimal time to spend in a given zone is based on what it does for your recovery? More is better until it affects what you have planned for the next day? Is this a trial-and-error kind of thing, or is there a rule of thumb? Feel free to send me over to TP and search through articles if there's something there that I just haven't found yet....

I'll let the others chime in on the V02 max, but as to threshold.  Why is it challenging mentally and physically?  And is that a reason to do shorter intervals?  Just my .02, but a 2 x 20 interval should be physically challenging, but not to the point of can I complete it?  It should be sufficiently hard, but not overly.  I notice V02 max sets the next day but not threshold work generally

As for mental, that's just trainer riding baby!     However, my threshold sets have been 4 x 10, 2 x 20, 2 x 25, 1 x 45, etc.  The watts depends on the length, i.e.a 4 x 10 may be a bit higher than a 2 x 20.   I don't know the science behind it, but it seems for an hour ride, spending 40-50 minutes at threshold, however set up, id the goal

Originally posted by ligersandtions Alright, so I'm probably annoying with my power questions, but I figure a handful of people in here are willing to talk power any chance they're given Is there a "best" (better? worse?) way to set up VO2max workouts? Would it be better to have a bunch of short (1 min?) intervals at 120% versus a few longer (5 min?) intervals at 106%? Is there an optimal amount of time to spend in the VO2max zone during a single workout? What about threshold? 2x20 @ FTP seems to be the bread and butter....but I tend to prefer something like 2-3x12 over/unders because it's more manageable physically and mentally for me. I imagine the optimal time to spend in a given zone is based on what it does for your recovery? More is better until it affects what you have planned for the next day? Is this a trial-and-error kind of thing, or is there a rule of thumb? Feel free to send me over to TP and search through articles if there's something there that I just haven't found yet....

This is actually running, but the principles are the same for the bike. I see people get started off using the 30-60", thinking that it's easier to get the hang of pacing and effort needed since these things should hurt. More often I'll be in the 3-5' range though. I feel I get more out of them and they are also less dependent on the recovery time, as seen in the link. Power for these also tends to be up higher than just barely making 106%. Usually going for more like 110, or maybe more like 115 for the 2-3 minute ones sometimes. Then make sure I stay above that 106% throughout. Done if I can't make that.

Threshold work tends to be just around threshold. Depends on how much you're doing both in the workout and for overall training. Lower in either (or both), and the intensity tends to go up more. More volume and it tends to be down. The ride I did on Saturday included ~1:40 around 90% plus another 8 minutes up around 95%. I'm doing a good deal of riding overall and don't have a race in the near future that would demand work at a higher level, so I ride a bit lower but spend a lot more time there. My brother doesn't have this kind of time, so he'll target a higher percentage for a target like you have been. When you divide up the intervals more like that, the rest allows your body to recover and you have to build back up each time. That's why it's easier or more manageable. So to get the stress you want, you need more intervals or work at a higher level.

I don't think it's necessary to try and hit 100% FTP every time for 2 x 20. For most, mid 90's is fine. The workouts should be challenging, but you should also be able to hit them consistently. I've found that I work better with larger amounts of work in the lower to mid 90's, and then occasionally going over threshold. It's not exactly the same for everyone though.

I never do thresholds at FTP.  it's about 80-90%.  What my coach gives me

And I take my trainer tested FTP with a grain of salt, I doubt I could really maintain that for an hour unless I was being chased by a grizzly bear.  Uphill. 

Last winter I did pretty much all of my VO2 work at 120% FTP doing basically 1'ON/1'OFF.  Looking back, I think I needed to do more work in the 105-120% range at longer lengths.  I remember discussing with Ben last winter about relating it to Daniels Running formula.  This winter I will likely be doing more in the 3-5 minute range at 110%, but also incorporating some work at 105 and 120%FTP.

For threshold work, I always target 95-100%FTP.  When I have just tested, 95% becomes very difficult so I usually stick around there.  When I am improving and start working up to 100% for 2x20 I know it is time to re-test.

I was able to do 2x20 plus 1x15 @95-100% in March of last year, at the tail end of EN Outseason, on the trainer so its definitely doable...hurts like hell...but doable.

Do you know what your gearing is in that range? That's a huge jump. For me, a 1 tooth jump is near 5 rpm and 2 tooth is near 10 rpm. You're looking at almost 20 rpm there. Not sure if this is an option, but I have the tightest cassette I could find on the trainer so that about everything is a 1 tooth jump. Also wonder if you're doing something like working in the lower end of the cassette while in the big ring. Going small ring and farther up the cassette might help keep things a bit tighter. Just speculating some ideas there.

Finding the motivation can help a lot too. That's where the Sufferfest vids come in for me. Something to chase and they do move the target around during the intervals. I'll do this on my own to an extent when intervals don't fit to their vids, but it is noticeably more difficult. Although I don't try to ride that early! Is volume a concern for you?

Sounds good for the intervals. I've found 15 x 1' to be challenging if I haven't worked VO2 in awhile, but quickly become easier. From the reading, not sure working harder does any more for developing that, though it can wipe me out more. Would have to extend out the number of intervals, but doesn't sound like that's an option for you. Having a solid warm-up for these matters quite a bit for me.

When you say long rides, what are you doing on them? Maybe point to a couple dates to look at if you're not sure what to say.

Glad I'm not the only one.  That's the one issue with a PM - it won't make you feel good about yourself if you're having an off day and struggling.  I tell myself all the time that I need to get mentally stronger to deal with the fact my workouts won't always go as intended, because I've bailed on rides too often when I wasn't hitting the numbers.

Agreed on the big jump.  I checked a workout I did last week where I know I shifted gears in the middle of a steady power interval.  Cadence dropped from 92/93 to 85/86.  

I found myself often stuck in between gears at one point a few months ago and switched to a tighter cassette (11-23) at Ben's suggestion and it eliminated the jump from the 15 to 17 cog.  A lot of my threshold work is in the 50x16 gear.