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2011-11-20 9:47 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Jorge: Starting day#1 tomorrow using computrainer.  Sounds like a great program.  Can't wait to start!

 

For the program do you recommend:

a) using ergo-meter mode and adjust the load so that it coincides with the prescribed intensity, or

b) riding in general exercise mode and aim to adjust the power output to the prescribed intensity

What are the pros and cons to each approach?

 

Thanks!



2011-11-20 9:50 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Ok guys, stop the madness!

We are not using FTP and we are certainly not using a percentage of the 20 min test to define a 'threshold'. 

FTP = a 60 min all our effort or the power one could roughly sustain for around 40kTT. This is a convenient definition created by A.Coggan to make it simple to describe this. unless you do a 60 min maximal effort or 40K TT, any alternative to estimate FTP (i.e. 95% of 20min) is just that.

In order for this program to better work for you, please do a 5 and 20 min maximal test and use that to estimate CP. Why? because the plan is divided in segments targeting different physiological parameters and using your 5MP, 20MP or CP will help you push better based on your own parameters. (6x4 min @ your 20 min power)

Sometimes we use terms interchangeably such as FTP and CP. They roughly refer to a similar thing but both are slightly different. (same as lactate threshold, MLSS, etc.) This can be very confusing so to avoid that, I try to make clear what we are doing here. I hope that helps clearing some of the confusion!

2011-11-20 9:51 PM
in reply to: #3909446

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Anton84 - 2011-11-20 9:47 PM

Jorge: Starting day#1 tomorrow using computrainer.  Sounds like a great program.  Can't wait to start!

 

For the program do you recommend:

a) using ergo-meter mode and adjust the load so that it coincides with the prescribed intensity, or

b) riding in general exercise mode and aim to adjust the power output to the prescribed intensity

What are the pros and cons to each approach?

 

Thanks!

either can work. *I* prefer the general mode so I can adjust based on how I am feeling on a particular day (pushing a bit higher or lower) as opposed to force a particular load that might be a bit much/or easy since our fitness increases/decreases every day based on many things like sleep, stress, work, etc.

2011-11-20 9:59 PM
in reply to: #3905840

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
jgerbodegrant - 2011-11-17 11:54 AM

There's a lot of talk referenced to Watts/Kg.  How good is it to use this as a score relative to other people?  Obviously if my watt/kg score is 3.29 and person X's watt/kg score is 3.29, we won't have the same speed on the same course.  Why is this factor significant?  Is it just a personal measure of progress with respect to weight and wattage?

W/Kg is a simple way to compare the fitness among athletes. Since taller/bigger athletes will tend to produce more power due to a greater muscle mass than smaller riders 9same between male and females); using absolute power can be deceiving. 

For that reason, if we take our power and divide it by our weight, then we can compare apples to apples between your fitness and that of another athlete. of course that is just a parameter than can be important but not the final answer specially for Tris.

For instance, some of the best Time trial specialists in the world tend to have greater absolute power. Still, when weight is added, most don't bode well with smaller/strong riders who can ride faster uphills. That's why a climb specialist while he/she might have less absolute power, he/she can produce more power per kilogram when going up. When the terrain is leveled, then aerodynamics come into the play much more, thus even if two riders have the same CdA, the one with more absolute power will go faster.

For tris, I like using w/kg because in *general* most athletes placing at the front fall within a particular range for different distances. But also, I like to focus on w/CdA as this can help us extract as much speed as possible for a given fitness level.

2011-11-20 10:04 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Looking at tomorrows power workout.  Please tell me the 150 is incorrect or this is really going to hurt

MS: 5x1' (1' Rest@ 65-70% FT) as 1-4 set @ 150-120%

2011-11-21 4:30 AM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
I see people making comments about completing workouts for week 3 but all I can see in the program is "first 2 weeks" Is the weekly schedule posted somewhere else?


2011-11-21 5:39 AM
in reply to: #3909545

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

peby - 2011-11-21 10:30 AM I see people making comments about completing workouts for week 3 but all I can see in the program is "first 2 weeks" Is the weekly schedule posted somewhere else?

Version with Power

HRM version

2011-11-21 5:58 AM
in reply to: #3909560

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

I was looking ahead at the HR version of the plan and noticed that day 40 (week 6 workout 3) says:

?MS: 20' as 2' @ 95-105% + 10' @ 70-75%

Either I'm just not seeing what that is meant to mean or something is missing.

2011-11-21 6:49 AM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Okay... first timer here... Week 3 Day 1 completed this morning...  classic mistakes for first time tester led to a bathtub graph... ended up with 211 avg watt for the 20' FT... so what do I do with this data from here? 

Thanks!

2011-11-21 7:16 AM
in reply to: #3909124

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

lakeview - 2011-11-20 4:02 PM Thx but I thought that's what normalized power was? And if so, training peaks shows it separately and it still does not match the garmin number or even close.

 

Normalized Power uses a different formula.

2011-11-21 8:49 AM
in reply to: #3909650

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Middle Georgia
Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
mrpetey - 2011-11-21 11:16 AM

lakeview - 2011-11-20 4:02 PM Thx but I thought that's what normalized power was? And if so, training peaks shows it separately and it still does not match the garmin number or even close.

 

Normalized Power uses a different formula.

Thanks, I was obviously confused about that and see my error thanks to you.  Appreciate the help.



2011-11-21 9:19 AM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

5min test completed last night, so here are my numbers:

20min - 247 watts, 3.60 watts/kg
  5min - 293 watts, 4.27 watts/kg
     CP - 232 watts, 3.38 watts/kg

This compares to my best CP of 250 watts early in the year.  A 10% improvement just isn't going to cut it, since this will only get me marginally higher than where I was earlier.  So, I'm going to cheat a little bit since I know I should be able to push harder, and use the values from my last test in April as my benchmark for setting the watts I need to hit in each session.  This is going to hurt...

2011-11-21 9:21 AM
in reply to: #3909625

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Oriondriver02 - 2011-11-21 7:49 AM

Okay... first timer here... Week 3 Day 1 completed this morning...  classic mistakes for first time tester led to a bathtub graph... ended up with 211 avg watt for the 20' FT... so what do I do with this data from here? 

Thanks!

Complete the 5min test to get your true CP number, but for Day 2 this week just assume that your CP value is 200 watts and setup the workout based on that value.

2011-11-21 11:25 AM
in reply to: #3909466

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
GaryRM - 2011-11-20 10:04 PM

Looking at tomorrows power workout.  Please tell me the 150 is incorrect or this is really going to hurt

MS: 5x1' (1' Rest@ 65-70% FT) as 1-4 set @ 150-120%

 

it is, it should be 105-120%

2011-11-21 11:32 AM
in reply to: #3744433

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Royal(PITA)
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Jorge,

I am finding that my gastrocs tell me long before I hit the HR zones you suggest to back off......so I am allowing these to dictate given the LONG recovery process I had from injury.  I assume I am still getting some sort of benefit from the workouts?

2011-11-21 2:06 PM
in reply to: #3910091

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
JorgeM - 2011-11-21 11:25 AM
GaryRM - 2011-11-20 10:04 PM

Looking at tomorrows power workout.  Please tell me the 150 is incorrect or this is really going to hurt

MS: 5x1' (1' Rest@ 65-70% FT) as 1-4 set @ 150-120%

 it is, it should be 105-120%

Thanks, I was beginning to dread tonights rideWink



2011-11-21 2:08 PM
in reply to: #3910399

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
GaryRM - 2011-11-21 4:06 PM
JorgeM - 2011-11-21 11:25 AM
GaryRM - 2011-11-20 10:04 PM

Looking at tomorrows power workout.  Please tell me the 150 is incorrect or this is really going to hurt

MS: 5x1' (1' Rest@ 65-70% FT) as 1-4 set @ 150-120%

 it is, it should be 105-120%

Thanks, I was beginning to dread tonights rideWink

Don't worry, it didn't suck.....    that much...  

2011-11-21 3:13 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Just finish test 1, the last 7 mins were HORRIBLE!! I thought I was gonna puke at one point. 
2011-11-21 3:18 PM
in reply to: #3910098

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
QueenZipp - 2011-11-21 11:32 AM

Jorge,

I am finding that my gastrocs tell me long before I hit the HR zones you suggest to back off......so I am allowing these to dictate given the LONG recovery process I had from injury.  I assume I am still getting some sort of benefit from the workouts?

do you mean your gastrocnemius muscles? I am not familiar with your injury or recovery but certainly limit the program based on what you can do, and yes, even doing less will provide benefit. Also, make sure you have the proper bike fit as those muscles shouldn't be doing as much work as your quads/hamstring/glutes. 

2011-11-21 4:31 PM
in reply to: #3910532

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Royal(PITA)
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
JorgeM - 2011-11-21 4:18 PM
QueenZipp - 2011-11-21 11:32 AM

Jorge,

I am finding that my gastrocs tell me long before I hit the HR zones you suggest to back off......so I am allowing these to dictate given the LONG recovery process I had from injury.  I assume I am still getting some sort of benefit from the workouts?

do you mean your gastrocnemius muscles? I am not familiar with your injury or recovery but certainly limit the program based on what you can do, and yes, even doing less will provide benefit. Also, make sure you have the proper bike fit as those muscles shouldn't be doing as much work as your quads/hamstring/glutes. 

Yes, that's what I mean.  Tore the living daylights out of the left gastrocs summer 2010.....it gets whiny when I put too much effort on it but I am doing what I can. 
2011-11-21 10:53 PM
in reply to: #3910406

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
axteraa - 2011-11-21 2:08 PM
GaryRM - 2011-11-21 4:06 PM
JorgeM - 2011-11-21 11:25 AM
GaryRM - 2011-11-20 10:04 PM

Looking at tomorrows power workout.  Please tell me the 150 is incorrect or this is really going to hurt

MS: 5x1' (1' Rest@ 65-70% FT) as 1-4 set @ 150-120%

 it is, it should be 105-120%

Thanks, I was beginning to dread tonights rideWink

Don't worry, it didn't suck.....    that much...  

Agree with you on that one!



2011-11-22 5:09 AM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
I'm doing the HR plan, am I right in thinking the percentages for the intervals are %THR not %HR-MLSS???
2011-11-22 3:22 PM
in reply to: #3744433


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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Test 1 in the books.  That hurt.  I am up from were I was last Nov. but down from my peak (to be expected after some time off).  My goal is to surpass last year's high water mark.  Thanks Jorge. 
2011-11-22 10:43 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Willamette Valley Oregon
Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Just finished the 20 minute test.  I am very happy with my effort - 249 average watts for the 20 minutes with an average heart rate of 157 bpm.  For the record, I am a 56 year old male that finished the Furnace Creek 508 six weeks ago.

2011-11-23 9:47 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Lost in the Evergreens
Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Just completed week4,day1.  This is one of my favorites.  Put in an extra interval just because it felt so good after testing last week.

MS: Last interval set 3-5w higher
5x ( 1' @ 115%
     ( 1' @ 65%
15 ' @ 75%

Love it.  Stayed in the groove an extra 5min to finish the hour.

Cheers

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