Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. (Page 13)

Nice work for those of you who have already done the short test. Don't worry too much about pacing, the reason why we will test frequently is to help you learn how to pace the tests and generally you will get better at pacing as a result of the testing.

When looking at a test file, there are several things that I will look at (besides the average for the test) and those are:

1) pacing - what was the trend? Very even, gradual build, gradual decline, big drop part way through, big jump toward the end
2) xPower or NP (normalized power) depending on the software you are using
3) what power were you able to maintain for the end of the workout after the test concluded

We will talk a bit more about this later this week but if you've done a test, you can have a look at your file to see what it is telling you.

Shane

I'm all set for testing this week, maybe tomorrow morning.

For the 5 min. test should I just do a 10 min. warmup then let 'er rip? I believe it has been mentioned after that 5' test I should feel so spent, continuing to ride more would be difficult. So should the 5' test simply be part of a short workout? Or would it be better to do 30 min. workout at "x" effort then do the 5' test?

Same type of question for the 20' test. I want to have as good numbers as I can and I'm totally new to training with any kind of zones, power etc. All I have done up to this point is "ride".

I just re-read the workouts Shane posted, 1, 2 and 3. Looks like our short and long tests are included in those two workouts If I understand correctly. I will do workout 1 tomorrow morning.

GC is a great tool. Especially considering what we pay for it.
There are a hand full of developers that do this in their own free time. No compensation.

Yes, documentation could be better, yes they could do some useability improvements, but overall it's a great tool.

And we have only seen the tip of the iceberg.

As we get into it, we can also look at some of the other tools. WKO is great and has some cool features. RaceDay is very cool. Once we are more comfortable with our CP curves, our PMC charts our mean maximal charts we can poke around with those.

Maybe analyze some rides you guys did, like Karen's IM ? :-)

Also, if you guys want to try training peaks at one point, I can probably get you some demo codes.

Did workout 1 this morning. I've got to say this will be a great learning experience and will be a lot of fun. I have no idea what my cadence has been on the road the last 4-5 years so I wasn't sure where my gearing needed to be for the traininer. I'm on a compact so this morning I was on the big ring up front and about midway on the rear. I just did what was comfortable and felt right. I'm at work now and can't load GC on my work laptop but I can look at the output file in Excel. I found something called 5m_critical_power so I'm guessing GC picked up my 5 min. test. Looking at the graph from GC that corresponds with the value for 5m_criitical_power. This is cool stuff.

Shane/Marc: Should I sent you my file so you can help with a recommendation on my 20 min. test? Or should I wait, do the 20 min. test then send to you so you can recommend some power levels for workout #3?

For workout #3, you will use your true CP which will be calculated from your 5' test and 20' test. GC has the calculator in there.

It's hard to give a precise target estimate of your 20' test from your 5'. Some people will do better at the 5' than the 20' and vice versa. As a matter of fact, depending what you are weaker at is what you will work moving forward.

FWIW my 20' is about 90% of my 5' or at least I think it is :-)

We will be looking at our results and can even start to compare them to some of the numbers in this article
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-profiling

For people using powermeters : remember to calibrate before starting !!!!

For virtual power : remember to note our tire PSI and high much the trainer is tighthened


Edited by marcag 2014-01-06 11:19 AM

On my KK Road Machine, I set the tension where I got real close to the 14 second spin down from 20 MPH and then took some white nail polish and marked the top of the knob. Then it's just a matter of 2 turns of the knob to release the tire and 2 turns to reset the tension with the white mark pointing up. Keeping air pressure constant of course.

Ron

Smart !!!

This was my 5' test with my Quarq.
http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/RAU7YPUPZGX3PSEXMS6YFMQRLI

I started a little too low so my power does ramp up. I should have probably started 10 watts higher and tried to stay flatter
I also peaked my HR about 5 beats lower than my max so I suspect I had a few more watts in me. But it did hurt

I also measured with the computrainer which was about 15watts less so I will do the 20' test and see which one makes more sense for training.

Last year end of March I was doing 4' tests at about 355watts.
With the CP model, the short test is typically 3 to 5 minutes. It happened to be I was using 4' back then.

I suspect holding 90% may be harder than I thought. We'll see. For me, the trick is the right music. I will have 5 songs lined up, in a particular order to help me through.

My watts/kg are not great right now because the kgs are going up faster than the watts

Just listening to a Macca Podcast were he talks about training heavy and then dropping the kg going into the race....interesting

I am going to bet people in this group are going to see a BIG jump in their wattage.


Edited by marcag 2014-01-06 1:53 PM

This is what I'm hoping for which I'm hoping translates to killer bike splits where I still have gas left for the run...

I was going to wait until tomorrow to test after doing a heavy strength session at the gym Saturday followed by some power singles, but I decided to just go for it. I slightly underestimated what I could do I think but had a good test overall. Might be able to get a few watts higher with a better test execution.

Average was 376w for the test but the last 2' was at 388 after I realized I had more in the legs. Will be good to see how it progresses the next few weeks.

Nice!

Daayum! The wattages you guys are putting out are crazy good. Well done. I hope one day I can get to this level!!

Marc - I've read the same weight comments from Macca. I'm taking solace in his comments as I get on the scale and see that I am 10 pounds heavier than I was in October, makes sense though. He argues that race weight can't be maintained for too long while also remaining healthy. Better to train a bit heavier and get to race weight a few weeks before your A race. Sounds like a plan. I essentially did that last year and it worked out great.

After clearing my driveway three times yesterday...12 inches of snow in total, I did the 5 minute test this morning.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/425629795

Not a perfect test...went out a bit too strong but came back in the last minute. It's been about a year since I did any kind of cycling assessment. Promptly went out after and shoveled the driveway and squeezed in an easy run this afternoon. Need to rest the legs up for the 20' test!

Nice. Yes you went out a little hard. My projection is you will go out at that pace next time and hold it.

How high is your normal max HR ? I am always curious as to how close people come to it during this test.

You did that on the trainer ? Correct ?

People doing it on the trainer will see even a larger increase when they get outside.



Edited by marcag 2014-01-07 5:53 AM

Thanks guys. For those trying to really get there numbers up or worried about a low number, keep in mind it is all relative and focus on your own numbers like an index. Comparing your numbers to others is a futile exercise and not always apples to apples so don't get discouraged (I've tried it). We all want the same thing and are looking for the 5-10% bump. I did ride over 5,000 miles in 2013 though with a bike focuse and have been riding a few years.

Marc, yes I did it on the Cyclops Fluid 2 trainer. I have a powertap wheel. I measured it with a Garmin 310 and a Joule and a Trainerroad ride (just in case!). I did it seated as prescribed and my cadence was in the low 80s for the first part and then I shifted into a bigger gear and pounded the last couple minutes out in the high 70s. I never hit my peak hr, but hit 182 just a few beats shy so came close towards the end. I've always rode in a big gear, but may be something to work on. I've done a little bit of higher cadence stuff here and there to get it up, but always felt comfortable in that lower range so just go with what feels right.

you can see it on Strava or Trainerroad or here is the Garmin Connect: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/425985624
I uploaded it to GC and did the find intervals thing too which is cool.

Edited by JAYCT 2014-01-07 5:59 AM

Thanks for pointing that out.

a) The most important thing is the relative improvement we are going to make.
b) Especially for the ladies. It's not watts, it's watts/kg that are king. Ya ya, people are going to say w/cda but the gold standard is watts/kg. Nicole probably weighs half of some of us guys, so she will be zipping up St-Georges faster than we can with half the watts.
c) Our power meters are not all 100% the same. People on VP may be 30% over or 30% under their real values. The person with the Crank/pedal based power meter may generate a higher number than the PT.....The numbers must be consistent with ourselves, not across the group.

I encourage all to put their numbers out there. It's a motivator to want to improve and to test harder. I am sure improvements are a motivator for Shane, they certainly are for me. I truly believe all these numbers are going to improve significantly.

Now....putting our watts/kg is another story. Never ask a woman her weight and never ask an overweight triathlete in the offseason to publish his weight. Let's just say I was happy to hear what Macca hits in the offseason.

Planning the 5 min test for after work tonight. Did a ride on Sunday but that was after a couple of hours of snow shoeing & the legs weren't quite there.