The "No Kids Club" (Page 14)

I'm feeling the same thing... that whole social security bit, and the repeating of my statement about "consumer of resources" was taken TOTALLY out of context, and the fact that it keeps popping up is irksome to me.

That aside--I've NEVER found this an easy topic to have civil discourse about (in person OR online), b/c it always ends up coming back to ME (not "me" me...but "me" in a general sense--as in people stop speaking about the concept in general, and start taking things personally). It is as if Party A takes Party B's opinion on B's own life as a cut at how Party A is living.

And from there it usually devolves into the "Well, you don't know what you're missing and will end up bitter" "No, YOU don't know what you're missing" "No, I HAD what you had" "No you didn't" argument.

Here's my thought...

You choose to have children (by whatever means) and you raise them. That is GREAT. And if you find it fulfilling and the greatest thing ever? OK. And if you DON'T find it fulfilling, and find it exasperating and stressful and wanting to weep and praise the day your child goes to be his own person out in the world? OK (and yes, it IS okay, and it DOES happen to people..."good" people, who REALLY wanted kids/love kids in general/are prepared, etc. No one TALKS about it, b/c somehow it seems dirty...but some people are parents--good parents, and HATE it.) You fall somewhere in between the two? OK, again.

You choose not to have children for whatever reason. You have the world's most fulfilling life? OK. You are bitter and sad later? OK. Fall somewhere in the middle--living a life you love, but randomly wonder from time to time..."what if"? OK.

You love kids? Hate kids? Love your own kids, but dislike kids in general? Dislike your kids being kids but love the adult they become? ALL OK.

Neither side will EVER KNOW THE OTHER SIDE...because you can't have it. Once you have a child, you are changed, irrevocably. You can't hit "control Z", and think that your earlier self's perspective is the same as your current. You may say "Well, I remember before I had kids...", and yes...you do. But that you isn't the you you are now. And that you will never exist in the future, nor will you know what it would have been like to live a life without kids.

And those who go their whole lives and never have kids? They will never know whether they were RIGHT and that it would have been a lesser experience/less enjoyable life they had, or whether they would have ended up liking their experience, or...whatever.

So, parents who say "You don't really understand what it's like"...you're right. And people without kids, who say "YOU don't really understand..."? You're right too. Huzzah and hug it out b1tches.

No person is worth more than another person simply because they brought forth a life. No person is worth more or less because they cannot or choose not  to do so, either. What value a person brings to this world falls upon their own shoulders. We're all born to someone...but in the end, our value (or lack thereof), is our own.

Here's the thing: it's a PERSONAL decision. All about YOU. All FOR you. We don't need more people to keep the world going (YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN). YOU are making this decision about you and for you. And that is FINE. And you know what? Some people will choose wrong. Some will choose correctly. Most may THINK they know which camp they've ended up in...but you can never know for sure.

It's great to want to learn more about why someone operates the way they do, but it sucks balls when people start getting all high and mighty about it--from either side.

THE END.

I kind of have an idea but not as much that is personally dealing with it...

my brother and his wife (37,39 respectively) have no plans on having kids - my mother drives them crazy about it

as much as I'd love to see my brother become a father (and enjoy what I've got with my three boys)

It's just not what he wants, and as others have said, the fact that he/she don't want them would make for an unhappy household if by chance she somehow got pregnant.

I personally have never said a word to him about it, EVER. He's happy. That's all that matters and it's not my place to judge.

Just as i haven't judged those on this thread that have made that decision. I've only asserted that they've gotten defensive for no reason.

It doesn't matter a damn what people think of your decision and you certainly don't need to defend yourself to anybody.

As it's already been said, everybody is different and all that matters is that you're content and happy in your own life and whatever you choose to do.

... and another thing; by the very nature of the situation, people without children do not know what it's like to have children, so, in fact, they "don't know what they are missing."

In my view that's not an attack, but a statement of truth. They may have spent a great deal of time around children, may have supervised children, may have lived with children, but until one is the actual parent of a child they do not know what that's like. Again, not an attack, and not a way to imply that one would feel any differently if they had children (unfortunately some parents don't like kids), just (to me) a factual statement.

Maybe it's the word "missing" that carries some negative connotation. Yeah, that must be what it is. Ok, I get that. See how working through things helps us all get a better understanding?

Lisa, cats are awesome. You should get one. Meow.

Friend of mine sent me this:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070511080340.htm

"In mid-life, being married or having a partner has a greater impact on a woman's well-being than whether or not she has children," Pienta said.

and

"Whether a woman has had children or not isn’t likely to affect her psychological well-being in later life," said University of Michigan sociologist Amy Pienta. "What is more important is whether or not she has a husband, a significant other or close social relationships in her life as she ages."

Again - great discussion. 

You should say something to your brother.  Not judging, but just say that you are accepting his decision and give him a "I understand" or "dont let mom get to you"  b/c he's getting it, probably more than youre aware of and it can be a bit hurtful and disheartening (spoken from my personal experience) He could feel like he is all alone in the family, has no support and you are "the better son for having kids" in your moms eyes.

thanks, I'll think about that and let you know how it turns out. Seriously.

Not saying anything at all is tougher because he's my "little" brother and you want to but i would never want him to think that his "big" brother is judging him or might even disapprove of his choices...

and you hit the "mom" nail right on the head! It's a shame. They actually got married after being/living together for something like nine years because they were getting so much flak from BOTH sides!

This whole idea of pressuring someone else to have kids is foreign to me. My oldest sister and her husband chose not to have children. NOBODY in my family has ever said anything to my sister or her husband about their choice. It's their choice.

Some good points there on semantics.  When I say kids are annoying, it's definitely more accurate to say that I am annoyed when I'm around most kids. The ownership is on my side, but I'll still defend it and say there's nothing wrong with that.  We all get annoyed by something!

How would you feel if I said this to you? I am really confused that you are assuming my experience is definitely the exception. I can tell you I have been afronted by no less than 25 complete strangers making extremely rude comments regarding my reproductive choices. I cannot imagine I am the only one. Maybe I am shopping at the wrong places?

I was also yelled at by my own Grandmother for 'getting myself knocked up' even though I was married and the pregnancy (my first) was planned. My ILs insisted on TWO occasions my husband get a vasectomy and one of those was when he called immately after the joyous birth of one of our children. My sister yelled at me for getting pregnant and refused to talk to me an entire pregnancy. When my MIL came to visit after a baby was born she would not let up with her birth control questions like it's ANY of her business.  I probably get less slack from my family because my brother and sister are both childless. The only people who don't give me grief are my Mom and my Dad.

What I take away is I get many more compliments on my children and their behavior as I do snide remarks. I am told all the time how well behaved my children are, not to mention their cuteness!

I am glad my brother and sister did not have children and am very supportive of those who know themselves well enough and choose not to have children.

If it makes you feel any better at all I love my 5 kids, have a great time with them and find a lot of children annoying! Of course not my kids but jeez.

Just wanted to post that the word "probing" makes me giggle a little.  heh heh she said "probing" heh heh

Word.  My wife and I are a bit older now, so we don't get those questions any more, but we did.  Usually it was asked by a woman holding a baby crying very loudly.  I would ask my wife later, "is it to share the pain?"

Well put on both sides of the discussion. 

Oh, and where is the "No kids, but I haven't really decided" option?

I used to want to, but now, I really don't. My mind could change again. Only time will tell.

That is kind of funny the only person who wanted me to have another child was my son; he wanted a brother.  I told him he could not be sure and he might wind up with a little sister.  He was OK with that too.