SBR "U" (Page 16)

I think this is a great point.  I certainly can feel my legs come back under me (even at a silly slow pace) a couple miles into a long run.  Same is true after a good warmup before track work.  I think you and Rusty might be convincing me (in different ways and without trying) that I am now old enough (not OLD, mind you) to be more mindful about getting a warmup in.  

The more frequent fast stuff also resonates.  This time last year I was doing a lot more interval, track and hill work at speed and really felt my overall form was consistently better - even on recovery runs.  I have a couple months of base work to do before getting back to the track in any serious way, at this point though!

I do miss the track...

Matt

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by GoFaster

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Aerocamp is back: https://a3hdcamps.wordpress.com/aerocamp-3-0/

This one honestly one of the most fun and educational experiences I've ever had on a bicycle.

LA Velodrome Feb 28 - March 1, coaches Heath Dotson and Brian Stover (who answered my questions long after camp ended - even helped me track down the best parts for my bike), data by Alphamantis, option for a bike fit by Jim Manton, and a chance to try out your gear - and other gear, even gear not on the market yet - and find your most aero set-up.

I'm not affiliated, just a happy customer. 

Just figured I'd pass the info along.

I'm in the area two weeks too early!  I am getting fit by Jim while I'm there though.  

Would love to do it, especially as its 20 minutes from home, but can't justify the expense for where I am as a triathlete. If I were minutes from kona, etc, different story

Looking at the cost though, in comparison to say wind tunnel testing, it seems very reasonably priced.  I hadn't realized the technology company was Canadian - keeps me hoping they put it in the local velodrome.  When I rode last weekend we were told that by May the Pan Am Games take over until almost September and everyone else is kicked out, so I reckon if anything like this does come to town it's not going to be for quite a while.

May be reasonable as compared to a wind tunnel (for me, that's like saying the new jag isn't that expensive when compared with the new mercedes. when I drive a ford.....) but I still cannot come close to justifying $700 to gain enough watts to go from 45th AG to 38th....I can afford it, just don't think it's a valid ROI for me

But that was $700 for 3 days - if there was a single day thing maybe it's much more reasonably priced.  Like the cost of a new helmet, type price?

So, I did the 20 min power test this morning.  Result was 311w which I'm very happy with.

Now the problem - I ran my old PT (or maybe Tab's, I'm not sure...) at the same time and it only reported 294w.    I was pretty surprised when I saw that as during the first 3-4 minutes of the workout I had the two computers side by side and they were right on - 30s power was within 1 watt the whole time.  At that point I just put the computer reading the PT to the side and didn't look at it again until near the end of my cool down.  At that point I noticed the 30s power was about 8w lower on the PT.  I coasted to do an auto zero and they were back to agreeing with 1-2w.

So, I *think* I have a temperature drift problem.  I broke the workout down into chunks and got the following

Broken down as P2Max / PT 
First 5 mins - 157 / 155 (coasted to auto zero both PMs)
Next 6:45 - 173 / 171 (so far so good, auto zeroed again)

At this point, I opened two windows directly beside me (outside temp -7C)

Next 10 mins - 182 / 177 (auto zeroed again)
Next 1:30 - 175 / 168
For the 20 min test broken down by 5 min chunks I got
299 / 288
307 / 291
316 / 297
321 / 299
Next 8 mins - 143 / 136 (noticed the discrepancy and auto zeroed)
Last 1:30 - 158 / 156 (back to agreement after the auto zero).

So, it seems like when I opened the windows (ie. blast chiller) the two started to drift apart. The P2Max is *supposed* to have active temperature compensation so I'd like to believe that is the one that is most right but who knows how well that really works?? The PT certainly doesn't have any temperature compensation built in.

Thoughts?  

Right, I totally get that the drift happens and it makes sense.  My question is more "which is right?" (or less wrong)  

I was using some of your french swear words this morning.  

Both were zeroed at the same time.  It's just a coast to trigger both of them (not a back pedal like a Quarq)

CP / FTP comes out as 294w which would be about a 10w increase over the last one I did.

Arend, I think it may actually be a problem with the Fetzer Valve on the PT, and probably caused by humidity, not temperature. So it is probably not an electronics problem, instead it is in all likelihood an issue with the ball bearings. Because, well, as you know it's all ball bearings nowadays. Now you repair that Fetzer valve with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads. And you are also going to need about ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No, no, wait make that Quaker State.

Oh, and no matter which outcome is correct, that looks like one well-ridden test - nice!

Er, I'm like several age groups younger than you are?

What do you know about your current fitness? A year is a long enough time that your profile could have change notably from then. A plan is not about training at what you'll be racing at, but doing what you need to improve your race performance. You won't race at VO2 max, but making sure that is up higher to start will help in developing the ability to sustain a power output for a longer time. The ability to sustain tends to be a lot about putting in time. That time will be about the same regardless of what you do for workouts (age groupers are mostly time limited), so the actual output at race time will be better if you're taking a percentage of a higher max number to start with. Without solid data to show a rather strong VO2 max I think you'd be fine following the plan. If you retest for current ability and find otherwise, then possibly rethink the plan (or if the last test was much more recent than I've understood it to be).

Getting confused - auto zero the PT?  I've never heard of this one.  I just calibrate before every ride, am I missing something?

Every time you coast for a few seconds, the PT will do an auto zero (same as the calibrate at the beginning).  When you ride outside, this usually happens on a regular basis.  On the trainer, not so much.

LOL!  You definitely are!

Just saying that I now can appreciate the effect of a good warm up a lot more than when I was less chronologically challenged.  The warmup is always, and has always been, a good idea - it's just that it now seems to matter more to my creaky bones.

So, you're not older, just smarter!

Matt

Side question.  Do folks with Quargs calibrate mid rides outside (or even on the trainer) routinely to keep the data solid?  I do it at the beginning but rarely during a ride...

With temperature changes over the course of a ride, I wonder if there's much drift or so minimal it's not an issue intra-ride.  Sorry if this was clear to others in the above...  Wondering about degree of change over such a short time frame rather than over the life of the equipment.

Thanks

Matt

I do, particularly on long rides outside I can see some significant drift. If I understand it correctly though in the newest firmware update they changed it so that it does it automatically when you coast, but I still do it out of habit. So before when the Quarq got a cadence reading (from pedaling backwards) and a zero power reading it reset the offset (calibrating is actually a different thing, but Garmin has conflated that). This similar to power tap, when it gets a zero power meter and an RPM from the wheel, it rests the offset. With the Quarq it now resets the offset when it gets a zero power reading and no cadence. I like it better the other way and I think it still works as well. On my Garmin vectors you also pedal backwards to reset the offset - the good thing about the vectors is that if you are using a Garmin head unit it gives you a notice that it is reset. BUT you have to be careful when you pedal backwards when in your largest gear; the clearance between the chain and the plug that goes in to the spindle is very close and you can shear it off with the chain. Don't ask me how I know this....

I wish Garmin would give that notice with other PMs too.  I also wish there was a shortcut to get to the manual zero (not saying Calibrate) page rather than having to go through 8 menu options.

I will probably run the two together for a bit just to see what happens.

 Edit: not because I will do anything about it, more out of curiosity.