SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! (Page 18)

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

First couple of TTs in late Feb and early March.  Only about 10-12 miles each, but a good way to test.

Which reminds me I need to get back on my TT bike soon.

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

First couple of TTs in late Feb and early March.  Only about 10-12 miles each, but a good way to test.

Which reminds me I need to get back on my TT bike soon.

We have a local time trial series starting out with 20Ks then 20 and 40Ks monthly, I've been threatening to go do some, but a bit shy about it....

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

Ragnar Florida Keys... though a potential stress fracture may mess that one up. No matter what, I'm going, though Yay sunshine and beaches!

If this is a stress fracture, I think I may drop the coach. I know it may be unrealistic to expect someone to push me to, and not beyond, my limits in training... 

Weekly run hours: 1.9, 2.2, 2.6, 3.6, then I got hurt. Mileage was 12, 14, 16, 22. I don't think the 10% rule is 100% perfect, but am I wrong in thinking that on paper, that doesn't quite look right?

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

Ragnar Florida Keys... though a potential stress fracture may mess that one up. No matter what, I'm going, though Yay sunshine and beaches!

If this is a stress fracture, I think I may drop the coach. I know it may be unrealistic to expect someone to push me to, and not beyond, my limits in training... 

Weekly run hours: 1.9, 2.2, 2.6, 3.6, then I got hurt. Mileage was 12, 14, 16, 22. I don't think the 10% rule is 100% perfect, but am I wrong in thinking that on paper, that doesn't quite look right?

The mileage would increase would depend on frequency and intensity and also your recent run history.  What did the runs look like?  I thought you mentioned doing a bunch of tempo runs?

Originally posted by rymac

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

Ragnar Florida Keys... though a potential stress fracture may mess that one up. No matter what, I'm going, though Yay sunshine and beaches!

If this is a stress fracture, I think I may drop the coach. I know it may be unrealistic to expect someone to push me to, and not beyond, my limits in training... 

Weekly run hours: 1.9, 2.2, 2.6, 3.6, then I got hurt. Mileage was 12, 14, 16, 22. I don't think the 10% rule is 100% perfect, but am I wrong in thinking that on paper, that doesn't quite look right? 

The mileage would increase would depend on frequency and intensity and also your recent run history.  What did the runs look like?  I thought you mentioned doing a bunch of tempo runs?

Link to training plan: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M-_Zbx9oYXfnw916C3icAXwQ0uLYRi_A10UmMnur0Xo/edit?usp=sharing

Logs here are up to date, but not totally detailed. Here's Garmin Connect: http://connect.garmin.com/profile/ElaineK

I started feeling it during my run on 1/8. Didn't run again until yesterday. I felt the shin a little at the start, it faded, then almost 3 miles in I felt sharp, localized pain. 

Currently not running, but swimming and biking, which have all felt fine. Seeing a doc tomorrow.

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by rymac

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

Ragnar Florida Keys... though a potential stress fracture may mess that one up. No matter what, I'm going, though Yay sunshine and beaches!

If this is a stress fracture, I think I may drop the coach. I know it may be unrealistic to expect someone to push me to, and not beyond, my limits in training... 

Weekly run hours: 1.9, 2.2, 2.6, 3.6, then I got hurt. Mileage was 12, 14, 16, 22. I don't think the 10% rule is 100% perfect, but am I wrong in thinking that on paper, that doesn't quite look right? 

The mileage would increase would depend on frequency and intensity and also your recent run history.  What did the runs look like?  I thought you mentioned doing a bunch of tempo runs?

Link to training plan: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M-_Zbx9oYXfnw916C3icAXwQ0uLYRi_A10UmMnur0Xo/edit?usp=sharing

Logs here are up to date, but not totally detailed. Here's Garmin Connect: http://connect.garmin.com/profile/ElaineK

I started feeling it during my run on 1/8. Didn't run again until yesterday. I felt the shin a little at the start, it faded, then almost 3 miles in I felt sharp, localized pain. 

Currently not running, but swimming and biking, which have all felt fine. Seeing a doc tomorrow.

Hmmmm.

It seems as though you just have a lot of run-oriented training stress. It looks like the majority of the running that you do is at a high intensity (I'm counting soccer in that bucket.)  I'm unsure of the exact proportions but it seems skewed. 

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

First couple of TTs in late Feb and early March.  Only about 10-12 miles each, but a good way to test.

Which reminds me I need to get back on my TT bike soon.

We have a local time trial series starting out with 20Ks then 20 and 40Ks monthly, I've been threatening to go do some, but a bit shy about it....

I would strongly encourage you to try at least a 20k.  Give Shane the schedule and see if any of them fall near a 20' testing date.  Since the CP calculator can technically use any length test, even if the TT takes you 30 minutes, it can still be used to update your CP.  And racing is the best time to test IMHO.  The carrot is a lot bigger on race day as compared to in your garage where your results don't get posted in front of everyone else (except BT).  

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

First couple of TTs in late Feb and early March.  Only about 10-12 miles each, but a good way to test.

Which reminds me I need to get back on my TT bike soon.

We have a local time trial series starting out with 20Ks then 20 and 40Ks monthly, I've been threatening to go do some, but a bit shy about it....

I would strongly encourage you to try at least a 20k.  Give Shane the schedule and see if any of them fall near a 20' testing date.  Since the CP calculator can technically use any length test, even if the TT takes you 30 minutes, it can still be used to update your CP.  And racing is the best time to test IMHO.  The carrot is a lot bigger on race day as compared to in your garage where your results don't get posted in front of everyone else (except BT).  

Definitely give it a try!  I'd love to have access to something like that.  We have 1 in May - I like to use it as an evaluation of how winter training went.  

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

First couple of TTs in late Feb and early March.  Only about 10-12 miles each, but a good way to test.

Which reminds me I need to get back on my TT bike soon.

We have a local time trial series starting out with 20Ks then 20 and 40Ks monthly, I've been threatening to go do some, but a bit shy about it....

I would strongly encourage you to try at least a 20k.  Give Shane the schedule and see if any of them fall near a 20' testing date.  Since the CP calculator can technically use any length test, even if the TT takes you 30 minutes, it can still be used to update your CP.  And racing is the best time to test IMHO.  The carrot is a lot bigger on race day as compared to in your garage where your results don't get posted in front of everyone else (except BT).  

Testing philosophy question:  Test in a race or on your own in a time trial setting?

I've seen this both ways.  *I* prefer testing in a race, as I can bury myself much more easily (although I'll concede that it's sometimes tough to find just the right race, etc., so you have to go it alone sometimes).

I've read, however, that this sets your zones for training too high and that to get a more usable number the time used should be about double what you'd use if testing on your own.

To me, if I can hold a pace/wattage/HR for a given time in a race, then THAT is what I can hold for that period of time (reminds me of the Zuckerberg quote to the Winklevoss twins in the Facebook movie to the effect that "If you had been the ones to create Facebook, then YOU would have been the ones to create Facebook."  Harsh but oh so accurate - just like a race!).

That's what I use to set my paces/HRs/W targets, cuz that's what I want to beat next time - and training should be hard, not just what you feel like pushing through on a given day - hit your numbers or not, but set them aggressively (and manage total stress smartly, of course - I'm talking about setting individual interval targets).

Prescinding from the fact that sometimes you HAVE to test on your own, what do you all *prefer* to do?

Matt

Originally posted by rymac

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by rymac

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

Ragnar Florida Keys... though a potential stress fracture may mess that one up. No matter what, I'm going, though Yay sunshine and beaches!

If this is a stress fracture, I think I may drop the coach. I know it may be unrealistic to expect someone to push me to, and not beyond, my limits in training... 

Weekly run hours: 1.9, 2.2, 2.6, 3.6, then I got hurt. Mileage was 12, 14, 16, 22. I don't think the 10% rule is 100% perfect, but am I wrong in thinking that on paper, that doesn't quite look right? 

The mileage would increase would depend on frequency and intensity and also your recent run history.  What did the runs look like?  I thought you mentioned doing a bunch of tempo runs?

Link to training plan: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M-_Zbx9oYXfnw916C3icAXwQ0uLYRi_A10UmMnur0Xo/edit?usp=sharing

Logs here are up to date, but not totally detailed. Here's Garmin Connect: http://connect.garmin.com/profile/ElaineK

I started feeling it during my run on 1/8. Didn't run again until yesterday. I felt the shin a little at the start, it faded, then almost 3 miles in I felt sharp, localized pain. 

Currently not running, but swimming and biking, which have all felt fine. Seeing a doc tomorrow.

Hmmmm.

It seems as though you just have a lot of run-oriented training stress. It looks like the majority of the running that you do is at a high intensity (I'm counting soccer in that bucket.)  I'm unsure of the exact proportions but it seems skewed. 

 

Agree. Most of your running is higher intensity and looking at your logs back to 2013 you don't have a really big run base. I see track workouts, tempo runs and playing soccer quite a bit make up the majority of your run volume. It would seem like easier runs focusing on frequency would be a better recipe but I am no coach.

What's missing from my logs is a ton of running from Basic (Jan-March 2013) and less from OCS, but probably still 10-15mpw, mostly easy.

Basic was 3x/week running, 2x tempo runs (aka me holding on to 7:30ish pace as long as possible), 1x short sprints (30-60s) with recovery (60-120s).

I've read that too, and have read more since along the lines of what you're thinking. The best that you can do is the best that you can do. There isn't some type of magic bonus that comes into a race. There is just that much more motivation to give it your true best. If the training seems "too hard", then take a good look at how tough things really are. Also consider revising the training accordingly as the previous beliefs may have been a bit much.

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by spudone Wow page 2? . Anyone have spring races coming up? Marathons, whatever? Any BQ here besides Adrienne?

First couple of TTs in late Feb and early March.  Only about 10-12 miles each, but a good way to test.

Which reminds me I need to get back on my TT bike soon.

We have a local time trial series starting out with 20Ks then 20 and 40Ks monthly, I've been threatening to go do some, but a bit shy about it....

I would strongly encourage you to try at least a 20k.  Give Shane the schedule and see if any of them fall near a 20' testing date.  Since the CP calculator can technically use any length test, even if the TT takes you 30 minutes, it can still be used to update your CP.  And racing is the best time to test IMHO.  The carrot is a lot bigger on race day as compared to in your garage where your results don't get posted in front of everyone else (except BT).  

I am thinking I will hit the Feb 4 TT, since i won't be running our local traditional superbowl sunday 10K  .....   It would be interesting to compare the CP from that vs. the CP from last week's testing HOWEVER it would be for sh&ts and giggles, since it would be (1) different protocol (2) inside vs. outside and (3) different machines PT vs CT.

From last years IM training, it seemed to me that in training the indoor CT CP numbers correlated well with the outside PT training rides.  Of course, on race day nothing seemed to correlate at all   :^

Interesting question, I ride with a PT and test/train during the week with a computrainer.  I suppose I could ride the CT with the PT running but honestly these numbers are basically theoretical to be confimred or not during training/racing.  Plus I'd have to swap out tires or go through them more quicky on the PT.

That said, I don't know what other people do, but I am absolutely, 100%, without question, utterly and completely buried after my 20 and 5 minute tests, to the point where my vision starts to narrow, and I cannot speak.  I have learned that i need to immediately write down the ave watts during the warmdown, as if I do not I will not remember what it said (yeah, I can save the workout on the CT post test, but in that mind set I am not confident that I would do it correctly - I cannot imagine the feeling of doing such a test and then having no idea what the number is.....).

So, unless I was doing a regular time trail under repeatable conditions, I prefer the indoor on my own tests.

ETA - You (or.... I) will know if the test is valid.  My threshhold and V02 max sets were getting fairly pedestrian.  Tested last week to an improved CP, and this week the sets have increased a good 20 watts, and are again appropriately challenging.  Just an aside that the testing and need for testng is an adjunct to experience and intuition, as I know many folks don't test but base FTP on their riding experience.

I prefer to test outdoors, simply because I hate the trainer.

I prefer to test during a race, because it's safer.

I always test on the trainer.  Similar to what Chris said, I cannot imagine being on the road in the state I'm in following one of these tests.

Chris - have you calibrated the difference between PT and CT so you know how many watts to add or subtract from your testing FTP to real world application?  I use a Tacx trainer so I get all my data on screen + now I'm using GC following the power group, but always ride with the PT and use those numbers.  (The Tacx trainer numbers aren't even close unlike the CT numbers).  Just a curiosity question.

On a lark late last year I put the PT on the CT, the PT consistently read about 15-20 watts lower, sometimes more.  There may be other factors to account for some of that such as tire pressure, I use a training tire on the CT, etc., I honestly don't know

For training, when I went out on the road and put in 4-5 hour rides using the zones derived from testing, PT seemed fairly accurate given effort level and how I should feel after the ride, so who knows?

For racing, I've done 3 races with power, and I've yet to put together a solid race from a bike/run aspect based on power and testing - bike has always been good, run less than good, raising the question was the bike truly good?  hard to tell, as the races have had differing conditions affecting the run - oly I was injured and doggie paddled the run, IM was, well, IM, and HIM was hot and humid in Miami and most everyone suffered on the run, especially us milder climate types.

"Aero" testing this weekend... aka running my bike through different setups on the Velodrome, and doing power/speed calculations to work out aero data.

Super excited!

Testing: stem height, bottle position (I've got 2 cages and an aerodrink style bottle), helmets, width of elbow pads...

Anything else I should look at? Anything you guys want to see?

That's cool!

How much time and equipment do you have?   Do you have access to some different race kits? ie. one piece vs two piece, different materials...  

I thought similarly until I got into bike racing.  Triathletes will never be in the blurry eyed state during a race if they plan to run well.  But it happens quite often in bike racing...especially during short TTs.  Hence why I usually test during a race where traffic is controlled a bit.  Or I test on a hill climb with very little cars. 

They'll have helmets to share.

For racing, I've pretty much got Pearl Izumi 2-piece kits. I may dig through and see what else I have kit-wise. One piece vs. two could be interesting though... but I don't have a 1 piece. 

ETA: I do have a swim skin, though...

Not sure how much time you have, but these are the things I would test.

1.  Head position.  From a comfortable position where I can see up the road, to a position where I'm turtling as much as possible.

2.  Helmet types.  Given the nature of my neck/back, I suspect I may be a good candidate for the newer type of helmets without a tail.  I can never get them to sit near my back.

3.  Clothing type.  This seems to be the next big area for manufacturers to focus on.  I would test my skin suit versus a short sleeve compression shirt and also a long sleeve compression shirt.  Or maybe just arm warmers.  Skin is considered "unaero" and it seems like the trend is to cover as much as possible on the bike.

4.  Bottle placement.  This is the thing I'm probably least concerned about.  It's the one thing that "seems" to be less individual and you can usually rely on independent tests to tell you which setup is fastest.  I would still be curious, but not as curious as the first 3.

Alright, I'm finally going to admit it....I think I'm back on the injured list.  Something is going on with my left ankle -- tuning fork and ultrasound point to it not being a stress fracture.  My chiropractor has "adjusted" my ankle four or five times in the past two weeks, while I took time off running.  She said I could give running a shot today, so I did....I got less than 0.1 miles in before I turned around and walked back home (I imagine my dogs were disappointed).

Really starting to think I'm just not cut out for running.  I think St. George might be my last tri, but I am interested in TT's and maybe bike racing, so I'm going to start looking into that....and probably picking Jason's brain a bit

I know you're supposed to compete against yourself and all that, but I am a competitive person....I wish aquabike events were more prevalent and more competitive.  I don't want to win one just because no one else raced.