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2011-12-15 7:34 AM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Hi Jorge, long time no chat.

If I had to drop one workout a week, which should it be? I am guessing the 2nd, which seems to be the 1hr workouts with some riding around 75-85%. Is this correct ?

Thanks for giving us the whole program up front. But I must admit, the suspense of "what is he going to do to us this week" before you posted the workout was special.

 



2011-12-15 7:32 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Trying to balance Jorge's plan and the HM plan plus some swimming so my week looks like:

  • Monday - cycling
  • Tues - swim/run (short)
  • Weds - Cycling
  • Thurs swim - run (med)
  • Friday - bike
  • Sat - bike (only 1 hour)
  • Sunday - long run

In my defense the swims are easy 2x500s and more to soak my legs in the cool water (and some quiet time away from work).  That said I bailed completely on everything yesterday (Sorry Jorge!) and will have to restrucure for one SRD a week.

2011-12-15 9:24 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Royal(PITA)
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Question....Week 5 session 3 reads that it is a 1 hour workout.  No matter how I add it up, it comes up short at 45 min max. 

warm up 10' @ 68-73%  + 5' alt 20" @ 106% / 40" @ 68-73%  + 5' @ 80%

main set 14 x 30" (30" rest @ 68-73%)  @100-105%  .......I think there is something missing here but it doesn't show in my planned training

c/d  5-10' @ 65%

Am I missing something?

2011-12-15 9:35 PM
in reply to: #3938026

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
mccollumtri - 2011-12-14 9:21 AM

I am doing the heart rate version. When I test again should my LTHR be higher or lower? It is hard to track my progress using just heart rate compared to the other plan. How can I measure results to see how much better I am getting. I am on Week 5 now.

For most part LTHR will remain constant; there might be some improvements as your get fitter and due to learning how to do the tests. If you read some of the notes, I suggest setting up the trainer identically each time you test and that way you can roughly use mph as a way to gauge improvements. If you set up your trainer the same each time, it can be a pretty good indicator of your fitness improvement
2011-12-15 9:43 PM
in reply to: #3940650

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
QueenZipp - 2011-12-15 9:24 PM

Question....Week 5 session 3 reads that it is a 1 hour workout.  No matter how I add it up, it comes up short at 45 min max. 

warm up 10' @ 68-73%  + 5' alt 20" @ 106% / 40" @ 68-73%  + 5' @ 80%

main set 14 x 30" (30" rest @ 68-73%)  @100-105%  .......I think there is something missing here but it doesn't show in my planned training

c/d  5-10' @ 65%

Am I missing something?

I'll edit that, I am assuming you are following the LTHR? It seems the workout is missing info; for week 5, session # 3 it actually should be 50min:

WU: #2 + MS: 15x30" (30"B) @100-106% + 10' @77-83% + CD

Sorry about that!

2011-12-15 9:46 PM
in reply to: #3939295

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
marcag - 2011-12-15 7:34 AM

Hi Jorge, long time no chat.

If I had to drop one workout a week, which should it be? I am guessing the 2nd, which seems to be the 1hr workouts with some riding around 75-85%. Is this correct ?

If you can only do 2 bike sessions per week, that sounds good. If you can do 3 bike sessions, then you can just avoid the optional (4th) ride.


2011-12-16 4:51 AM
in reply to: #3744433

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Did the 5' test this morning and my CP has jumped from 218 to 246!  While I am thrilled with the improvement, I can't imagine how much some of those workouts are going to hurt with the big jump in levels.

Bring it on!

2011-12-16 12:50 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
I'm sorry if this has been asked, I'll admit I have not read through the 20 something pages. Why the switch from three minute to five minute CP tests? I started using 3 min as my performance test in Raceday last year because it coincided nicely with the 3 min CP test. An I losing anything if I stick with 3 min? Thanks!
2011-12-16 1:03 PM
in reply to: #3941370

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

jsiegs - 2011-12-16 1:50 PM I'm sorry if this has been asked, I'll admit I have not read through the 20 something pages. Why the switch from three minute to five minute CP tests? I started using 3 min as my performance test in Raceday last year because it coincided nicely with the 3 min CP test. An I losing anything if I stick with 3 min? Thanks!

Here's Jorge's answer to your question (Message #3787245)

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=273109&start=101

2011-12-16 2:17 PM
in reply to: #3941383

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
windandsurf - 2011-12-16 2:03 PM

jsiegs - 2011-12-16 1:50 PM I'm sorry if this has been asked, I'll admit I have not read through the 20 something pages. Why the switch from three minute to five minute CP tests? I started using 3 min as my performance test in Raceday last year because it coincided nicely with the 3 min CP test. An I losing anything if I stick with 3 min? Thanks!

Here's Jorge's answer to your question (Message #3787245)

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=273109&start=101

Sorry, I'm not seeing it, the link just takes me back to this page and I don't see the answer.
2011-12-16 2:36 PM
in reply to: #3941464

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
jsiegs - 2011-12-16 3:17 PM
windandsurf - 2011-12-16 2:03 PM

jsiegs - 2011-12-16 1:50 PM I'm sorry if this has been asked, I'll admit I have not read through the 20 something pages. Why the switch from three minute to five minute CP tests? I started using 3 min as my performance test in Raceday last year because it coincided nicely with the 3 min CP test. An I losing anything if I stick with 3 min? Thanks!

Here's Jorge's answer to your question (Message #3787245)

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=273109&start=101

Sorry, I'm not seeing it, the link just takes me back to this page and I don't see the answer.

 

Here you go:

Posted 2011-11-03 10:58 AM (#3787245 - in reply to #3787133)

While the 3 min test is 'a bit' easier mentally, it has been my experience that the 5 min test relates closely to most athletes VO2max power which can be a good data point to know for difference reasons. 1st of all, while our VO2max (aerobic capacity) is for most part determined, and training might or might not affect it much (some athletes are responders, others not so much), we still can improve certain things like the pace and/or power we can sustain at VO2max

In simple words; while our max capacity of our body to utilize oxygen might not change much beyond this marker, we can still improve power/pace at this intensity. In addition, your pVO2max (power or pace at/near your VO2max) is in many ways your potential; in other words, your pVO2max is 'x' power, in theory, you have the capability of bringing your CP closer to that number. It is the room for your power 'growth'.

Hence in my experience, in many cases pVO2max = to 5 min power (5MP). And 5MP in turn is your CP potential. So if yourr 5MP is 300watts and your CP is 250watts, then you can 'potentially' bring that CP close to 300w.

Finally, for athletes training for cycling events (stage races, crits, cyclocross), knowing their 5MP can be an important tool for their racing.

My thinking is, if you are going to go through the trouble of testing, might as well get more useful data while enduring the pain



2011-12-16 3:24 PM
in reply to: #3940757

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
axteraa - 2011-12-16 4:51 AM

Did the 5' test this morning and my CP has jumped from 218 to 246!  While I am thrilled with the improvement, I can't imagine how much some of those workouts are going to hurt with the big jump in levels.

Bring it on!

"It never gets easier; you just get faster" Greg Lemond

2011-12-16 4:28 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Did the 5 min test and only managed to bring up my avg from 248 to 258.  An improvement which I will be happy with.

2011-12-16 6:50 PM
in reply to: #3744433


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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
After a complete bust for a test monday,  I attacked it again today.  I completed workout#2 Wednesday, took yesterday off and tested again today 293 watts. Only 1 watt better, but at least not 20 watts lower (monday test).  Lesson learned,  no testing after night shift and my body seems to prefer a little more activity leading up to testing or harder efforts.  2-3 days off and I loose a little bit of an edge somehow.  Back on track now hoping for improvment from here,  now just need to squeeze in 5 min test this weekend!
2011-12-16 8:56 PM
in reply to: #3940663

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Royal(PITA)
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
JorgeM - 2011-12-15 10:43 PM
QueenZipp - 2011-12-15 9:24 PM

Question....Week 5 session 3 reads that it is a 1 hour workout.  No matter how I add it up, it comes up short at 45 min max. 

warm up 10' @ 68-73%  + 5' alt 20" @ 106% / 40" @ 68-73%  + 5' @ 80%

main set 14 x 30" (30" rest @ 68-73%)  @100-105%  .......I think there is something missing here but it doesn't show in my planned training

c/d  5-10' @ 65%

Am I missing something?

I'll edit that, I am assuming you are following the LTHR? It seems the workout is missing info; for week 5, session # 3 it actually should be 50min:

WU: #2 + MS: 15x30" (30"B) @100-106% + 10' @77-83% + CD

Sorry about that!

Ok....thanks.  Perhaps I shouldn't have asked, almost left dinner on the garage floor.
2011-12-17 5:55 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Just looking at week 8 today (I start it on Monday)... Ouch.



2011-12-17 7:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Jorge and all,

Quick question. My values for first test at beginning of program:

20 min test: 290

5 min test: 348

CP in watts 271 (based on calculator)

Just completed 2nd round of tests

20 min test: 299

5 min test 386

CP IN WATTS: 270 (based in calculator)

Is that correct that my CP went down a watt?

Thanks!

2011-12-19 3:16 AM
in reply to: #3942468

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
The dreaded 6x4's are here! Pushed too hard on the first 2 sets accidently and had to stick closer to 100% HR for the remaining 4 sets if I wanted any hope of completing them!
2011-12-19 5:05 AM
in reply to: #3942387

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
cnsegura - 2011-12-17 7:55 PM

Just looking at week 8 today (I start it on Monday)... Ouch.

I just did the 6x4' workout.  Be very very afraid.....

2011-12-19 9:05 AM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Just finished my second 5 min. test and added 10 watts to the first one.
2011-12-19 9:26 AM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Completed 20 min FT #2 this morning... saw a jump from 211 to 232... could not be happier to see actual improvement!! Laughing


2011-12-19 2:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
japewang - 2011-12-17 7:40 PM

Jorge and all,

Quick question. My values for first test at beginning of program:

20 min test: 290

5 min test: 348

CP in watts 271 (based on calculator)

Just completed 2nd round of tests

20 min test: 299

5 min test 386

CP IN WATTS: 270 (based in calculator)

Is that correct that my CP went down a watt?

Thanks!

yes.

assuming you tested well both times, the CP should be accurate. What it means is the following; 5 min test is highly correlated with your VO2 max (max aerobic capacity); as you can see you 5MP improved significantly which is expected between knowing how to do the test, the fact the program focused on that the first weeks, you might be a "responder", you've never trained to improve aerobic capacity and because adaptations improving VO2max occur in a relatively short period of time 2-4 weeks.

That improvement compared to your 20min gains which were more modest in comparison ( and not unexpected since we haven't focused on that yet) then what it means is that you have the ability to produce a lot of power for short periods of time; on those situations your rely more on your anaerobic energy system hence 'aerobically' you are limited at the moment. IOW, once you go longer, your power drops fast. 

What we want know is to improve your 20 min as much as possible so your CP increases as well; that is, we want you to become 'aerobically' stronger so when you go longer your power drops at a slower rate. That will be a mix of workouts for coming weeks when we focus on 20 min power and then on CP. So while it might not seem as good news that your CP is the same, in fact it is because your 5MP in theory, is like your ceiling fitness potential; that is, you have all that room to grow to improve your CP and get it closer to the 5MP. 

it will take hard work and consistency but you have the chance to improve your cycling significantly!!! 

2011-12-19 2:44 PM
in reply to: #3943785

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012
Oriondriver02 - 2011-12-19 9:26 AM Completed 20 min FT #2 this morning... saw a jump from 211 to 232... could not be happier to see actual improvement!! Laughing
awesome, merry Christmas present!
2011-12-19 2:45 PM
in reply to: #3943737

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

peby - 2011-12-19 9:05 AM Just finished my second 5 min. test and added 10 watts to the first one.

great job! now move onto adding another 10 for the next 4 weeks

2011-12-19 2:58 PM
in reply to: #3744433

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Subject: RE: Cycling program v4.0 2011-2012

Hey everyone, I just want to wish you all an early merry Christmas, happy holidays, NYE and all that jazz

I will be traveling in coming weeks; if you have questions about the program, it will be easier if you get me through my biz facebook page or my twitter account (CoachJorgeM)

keep up the consistent training!

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