"Is Algebra Necessary?" (Page 2)

Well the 2nd paragraph of the article extended it beyond algebra, that's why I posted what I did:

My question extends beyond algebra and applies more broadly to the usual mathematics sequence, from geometry through calculus. State regents and legislators — and much of the public — take it as self-evident that every young person should be made to master polynomial functions and parametric equations.

I actually liked this part of the article:

"Thus mathematics teachers at every level could create exciting courses in what I call “citizen statistics.” This would not be a backdoor version of algebra, as in the Advanced Placement syllabus. Nor would it focus on equations used by scholars when they write for one another. Instead, it would familiarize students with the kinds of numbers that describe and delineate our personal and public lives."

This would be a useful approach.  I often find myself thinking about how glad I am that I liked/learned algebra (and geometry).  Fractions, in particular, are very useful! And btw, I was an English Lit major in college and have a Masters in Library and Information Science, so my math requirement was fulfilled with College Algebra (and I learned through Calculus in high school, now that was a waste...).  In my job basic math comes up as I work with the budget, percentages in particular.   Modifying recipes, figuring out gas mileage, etc.  It comes up. 

The other day I had to correct a senior administrator in her math to figure out my salary.  I was changing from .8 FTE to 1.0 FTE and she did the math wrong. I discovered it when I received the standard HR letter and fortunately checked it.  That's just pathetic.

So just because something is hard we should give up on it?  This author infuriates me beyond words. Granted I'm an engineer but i use algebra in everyday (non work related) life multiple times a day.

Maybe we need to look at HOW we teach algebra rather than just giving up on it.

What a dolt...

One aspect nobody has mentioned is the introduction of technology in our cultures.   I do not discount the secondary benefits of Algebra or any higher level math classes BTW.  This is the fact it requires dedicated thought, discipline and yes, actual effort.  The actual material absorbed which remains practical is unfortunately not there today IMHO.  

My main point is how much technology can now help us (or hurt us depending on your view) when it comes to relevence of higher level math courses.   Is there not an app or on-linecalculator out there for many of our daily needs?  Examples given have been calculating gas milage, % of money going into savings, rate of return on our portfolios, etc.  All of these things are done for us.  You could argue those tools wouldnt be there unless someone inputted the data and software, but those are the 5-10% of folks who would find it practical. 

My anology is the real life benefits of being able to run 10, 20 or 30 miles.   There are plenty of secondary benefits in running these distances and having the endurance to do so.   But is it practical?   Not unless your on the loose after a prison break-out.  

Just my 2 cents. 

We've had calculators ofr 50+ years now yet we still teach basic addition, subtractions, multiplication and division.

People need to ability to do basic calcs in their head when a calculator or online tool is not around.  Every day I make lots of general, estimates in my head about things.  When I get an answer that is close and gives me a general feeling or yes/no then I can move forward and use the tools you mention to give me a more precise answer.

On a regular basis I confuse the heck out of cashiers by giving them what seems to be an odd amount of money ($10.31 on a $9.81 purchase) AFTER they've entered the $10 into the register.  That special tool does then NO good at this point.  And this is just basic math...

Here's a test question to tell what king of math person you are.

You are going on a hilly bike ride.  It is all either uphill or downhill, no flats.  You can just barely average 8 mph on the uphills.  How fast do you have to go  on the downhills to get to a respectable 16 mph for the whole ride?

If you answer, lets just ride as fast as we can and not worry about it.  Then, you are not a math person but probably are a good bike rider.

If you answer 24 mph and downhills are fun, then you are average.  You are not a math person.  You might want to get some help on your tax return.

If you answer,  I don't know but it isn't 24 mph, then you probably made an A- or B+ in algebra.  You are not a math person but you will get by and figure out the stuff that you need to.

If you instantly get depressed about how crappy your average speed is going to be, then you are a math person.  I am a math person and not a very good bike rider.

I got a minor in Applied mathematics in school which means I took 8 college level classes starting with Calc 1 going up to Diff Eq and Linear Algebra. I use it all the time in my everyday life. 

I remember once when I was in 7th grade and I went to a 7-11 with my friend and there was some candy I wanted that was $.15/ea and I got 6 of them because I only had a $1. My friend was amazed that I knew how many to get, which is pretty sad really.When I'm out on a 12 mile run and I am bored I start to try and calculate how fast I am going and how far I think I've gone based on known distances and my current time. Even at work, when we are crediting people for a return and we have to charge a restock fee my coworkers come to me to figure out what we need to credit them so that we can cover the shipping fees and all of that stuff.

To me, algebra is the most essential math that we teach in public schools. 

This is a terrible idea I think. The reason the fundamentals are taught is so that you know what is going on behind the scenes. An example from my job. I am a quotes guy for an electrical distributor. I price up all the panelboards/switchboards/other power distribution equipment needed on new construction. I do most of my work in an excel template I created. Even though I don't do any of the calculations manually, excel does them for me. Sometimes however my template gets edited in such a way that the pricing is wrong. If I wasn't using my math skills to notice that then I could potentially lose a lot of money for my company. Without having those skills I might just let it slide through and suddenly something that should be selling for $150k is going for $100k because my excel sheet didn't include a certain item that costs $50k.

By giving a cashier the correct change allowing them to give me 2 quarters vs having to give me four pennies one nickel and one dime is elitism?

"...that word... I do not think it means what you think it means."

Basic addition and subtraction should be the acceptable norm for everyone.

RE: "Is Algebra Necessary?"

Only if you need to know how long it would take you to drive 80 miles at 80mph

Original Youtube

Another video

And another

And another

Robert Fulghum wrote, "Everthing I Really Need to Know, I learned in Kindergarten."  For me, I had to wait until I finished freshman calculus.

Algebra is a way represent real things abstractly and manipulate the abstract version for some useful purpose.  Physics tells us a few things about how things always work.  Calculus let us manipulate what we know about something in small localized sense of time or space into a complete prediction of its behavior.  I cannot live without putting these three things together.  It annoys my wife. 

Don't forget Laplace transforms. That was the most mind blowing thing I ever learned. To me it was like taking calculus, converting it to kindergarten math, solving it and then converting it back to calculus for an answer.

And Green's functions!  It puts differential equations into a form that makes calculus of variations useful.

Yet, an engineering degree is not an end all be all learning experience... it is the key to a door. When an employer says a degree is required for an engineering position... it isn't that it means that is what they require you to "know"... in fact the position may very well be an administrative position with very little hands on "engineering".... but what it is is a gate that say this person holds a skill set above the normal Joe... even if he just barely passed, he has reasoning skills, learning skills, information retention skills, time managment skills and a perserverance to finish tasks... that what the Sheep skin is for. A degree in basket weaving may signal you can finish what you start... it does not say you posses any skills in critical thinking the employer may be looking for. It is the price of admission and the reason a degree warrants higher pay.... but let's just toos all that out and open up the position to basket weavers... not that there is anything wrong with basket weavers.

I use algebra on a daily basis.  It is basic enough that it should required.

Since the question is a policy question and not specific to each individual it seems to me that it is a question of:  Do we want to build a future for our kids where we dumb it down to the lowest denominator, or do we want to raise them up to whatever level of expectations are agreed upon to be productive?

Because we're definitely no raising them to the highest level or else we'd require Diff Eq as a sophomore in high School and year round school. 

It should get their attention.

Instead of asking if it's reasonable, you should ask what vehicle that they should take for the trip.  The list of land vehicles that have ever gone fast enough is pretty short.

That article reminds me of the infamous '80's episode of Geraldo with the skinheads that broke out into a rumble.

The main skinhead was complaining about immigrants taking American jobs.

After going through the guys education and qualifications (or lack thereof), "Son, that job was never yours to begin with!"

IF you would believe http://www.careercast.com/jobs-rated/10-best-jobs-2012

At least 2/3 if not all of these jobs would require it as a pre-req, and good luck being competitive without it.

I would be curious to apply these to the most prevalent jobs in the U.S. versus in the world.

Not master it, but at least pass the class.

I'm pretty sure we covered ALL of these in the Chick-Fil-A thread.

The only way to get to AP calc in my school was to start taking algebra in 7th grade.  I went to a small school, so even though I graduated with 150 kids, I only ever had a HS math class with 20 of them.  So I go and take the AP exam, and get a 4, which, at the U of Michigan, was good enough for first year calculus credits.

In my artistic degree field, that was enough for me to graduate.  The only time I use anything above what I learned as a freshman in HS (geometry) in any part of my life, is when I do statistics - which I didn't have to take till grad school.

Was it theoretically unnecessary for me to learn calculus?  You betcha.  But I did, and not only that, but NAAB (accreditation) requires calculus courses for all Architecture degrees. 

Now if only civil engineers could talk to roofers and both use the same nomenclature - grade for civil guys and rise over run for roofing...