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So why is it???? (Page 3)
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 2009-08-25 11:17 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Champion  10154    Alabama |  Subject: RE: So why is it????Why do I feel like I'm trying to explain teh "who's on first" skit to Rainman! "If it gets easier you are not training hard enough" is a joke....a play on words...that's why it's funny! Obviosly it gets easier, that is irrefutable, it only stays hard if you push harder. I don't think it's BS to tell beginners that running does get easier! I believe it does with all my heart. Even if I get a little faster and run a little further, it STILL got easier. If someone is struggling to run a mile, what value is there in telling them "it doesn't get any easier!" If you want to make your point, tell them, running the same pace will get easier but, IF YOU ARE LIKE ME, you will want to run faster and faster. BTW, on a seperate note, I think "you FOPers" need to learn about the law of dimishing returns. You will eventually stop making gains and will assumptocially approach your genetic/age limit anyway. I just dialed in on my limit early in my career and have enjoyed s/b/r training w/o feeling like I'm killing myself.
~Mike |
| 2009-08-25 11:19 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Regular 186 SW VA | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I vote we table the discussion... it has caused me to grow tired. |
| 2009-08-25 11:19 AM in reply to: #2369282 |
Master 4119 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Daremo - 2009-08-25 12:17 PM KSH - 2009-08-25 12:10 PM Jealously? Annoyance? Hhhuummmm. I can say that yes, I have gotten pretty darn annoyed reading RR's from people who barely train and crush their AG. Or they run twice a week and keep a 7 minute mile easy. Or they ride 50 miles a week and go out and do a 21 mph average in a race. Yes, I've know people like that in this very board. I know a few MOP/BOP people who have posted in the logs (including me) how annoying and discouraging it is... for us to train year after year... not seeing any huge improvements... whereas other people DO see that. There I am, training my butt off day after day, year after year... and someone who hardly trains beats me on the bike and run. Like it's nothing. Yes, I get annoyed about it. But I also don't hate them for it. It's just who they are. Or because they've been involved in endurance sports for 15+ years and have such a huge base. Or because they have the genetic predispostion of the Kalenjin tribe. But I get exactly what you're saying. Yep, still annnoying even with those logical answers and reasons to remind us not to worry about it ... |
| 2009-08-25 11:22 AM in reply to: #2369283 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Rogillio - 2009-08-25 11:17 AM BTW, on a seperate note, I think "you FOPers" need to learn about the law of dimishing returns. You will eventually stop making gains and will assumptocially approach your genetic/age limit anyway. I just dialed in on my limit early in my career and have enjoyed s/b/r training w/o feeling like I'm killing myself.
~Mike Man, have you got a bee in your bonnet with the FOP crowd! I don't judge you for not wanting to kill yourself but man, you judge me for doing it. You call a qoute designed to describe someone as striving to improve as elitist BS. So who here has the problem? |
| 2009-08-25 11:25 AM in reply to: #2369283 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Rogillio - 2009-08-25 12:17 PM Why do I feel like I'm trying to explain teh "who's on first" skit to Rainman! "If it gets easier you are not training hard enough" is a joke....a play on words...that's why it's funny! Obviosly it gets easier, that is irrefutable, it only stays hard if you push harder. I don't think it's BS to tell beginners that running does get easier! I believe it does with all my heart. Even if I get a little faster and run a little further, it STILL got easier. If someone is struggling to run a mile, what value is there in telling them "it doesn't get any easier!" If you want to make your point, tell them, running the same pace will get easier but, IF YOU ARE LIKE ME, you will want to run faster and faster. BTW, on a seperate note, I think "you FOPers" need to learn about the law of dimishing returns. You will eventually stop making gains and will assumptocially approach your genetic/age limit anyway. I just dialed in on my limit early in my career and have enjoyed s/b/r training w/o feeling like I'm killing myself.
~Mike I did say "politely" discuss, didn't I? And if you are referring to me with the diminishing returns thing, go look at my average paces and results. They really haven't changed/improved in the last 3 years (and considering I'm about to go onto a heart medication that I'll have to use for the rest of my life which will act like a governor for my heart I'm not going to improve much ever again), so I can guarantee you those elitist pr-ck FOPers are well aware of their physical limitations. But there are also 60+ year old guys running in the local races around here that are faster than the majority of the people in this forum, so if someone chooses to put out the effort, then they can maintain and improve as long as they want. (Unfortunately, I'm not at all surprised where this discussion has gone.) Edited by Daremo 2009-08-25 11:28 AM |
| 2009-08-25 11:27 AM in reply to: #2369289 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: So why is it???? mrmcmasty - 2009-08-25 11:19 AM I vote we table the discussion... it has caused me to grow tired.
You're not pushing yourself hard enough! Read some more!! ;-)
~Mike |
| 2009-08-25 11:30 AM in reply to: #2369264 |
Veteran 275 Grand Rapids, MI | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Here's my 2 cents on how I've come to realize that maybe, just maybe my perception was wrong. I've raced sailboats my whole life, and that is another sport where weekend warriors compete directly with elite and pro's. In many cases, in that sport, there is an attitude from the pros to the weekend warriors. They truly beleive they are better than you, and you shouldn't even be out there. Now, jump to triathlon. I have this same idea in my head. Immediatly the age group winners and elite athletes must be a bunch of a holes. That's just how it is, right? Here are a couple of examples of what proved that wrong. In my masters swim group this winter I became friends with 2 guys who were great swimmers. Turns out they are triathletes, and they are giving me advice all winter for my upcoming first year of tri. First race comes around, and they both win there age group. Strike one on my a hole theory. Did a made up tri with Michigan BTer's this spring. Everyone there was great, nobody had an attitude. Talked to Jazz for a while, thought she was a great person. I didn't know where she fell on the scale. Fast forward a few months, and she one oveall honors at Muncie. Dammit! Strike 2. Didn't talk to Trixie at made up tri in Michigan, because I knew how good she was already, and knew we didn't have anything in common. Ran into her at Steelhead HIM later. Turns out I was wrong again! Elite, yes. A-Hole, not even close. Gave me tips and made me feel like part of the club. My point is, in my experience, the divide between BOP and FOP has always come from my side. I've been intimidated, and I just assumed they would have an attitude. I was wrong every time. I've always felt welcome at triathlons by everyone. Now, should I ever win my age group, I might turn into an a-hole. We can revisit this topic then  -Brad |
| 2009-08-25 11:30 AM in reply to: #2369283 |
| Minneapolis, MN | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Your words are continuing to argue but the messages here are saying the same thing. Everyone seems to be in agreement that if you consistently run distance x it will get easier over time. Should you choose to continue to push your level of effort you will find that you can also run distance x in a faster time. It really all boils down to individual goals and personal motivations for being involved in the sport. They are all different and in my opinion none are less valid than the next. |
| 2009-08-25 11:33 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Veteran 163 nearby the city of brotherly love | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I read a lot of posts on BT, I myself don't post as much as I'd want to, simply because writing something comes off worse than when I am saying it--and really, I don't feel like being critizied for an opinion. With that in mind...this topic has hit home for me. The root of the discussion can encompass more than just BOP, MOP, FOP. It seems to be human nature that some react/judge/lash at others because of something within their way of thinking/nature. My sister for example-not your magazine picture triathlete (now picture what you see in the magazines)--she did her first sprint a month ago--with her mohawk, piercings, tatoos, mountain bike (on a road course), and cross trainer sneakers. There were some people that didn't KNOW her were actually quite rude/judgemental to her. Those who came to support her, and KNOW her, were in tears when she finished. And there were those people who were comfortable enough with their own skin that were total strangers too, and gave her encouragement through the race, without judgement, without caring who she was--because they were in that race for the same reason--to finish. In my opinion, if you are entered in a race, you only entered to either find something out about yourself as a person, better yourself somehow (mentally, phsyically, professionallly), or perhaps help out others, but in the end--YOU entered to FINISH. What matters is how you race, both for yourself, specatotrs, and those around you in the race. Everyone has their own reasons for racing--and it's that fact that some do not recognize. Again, this is only my opinion, wanting to contribute to discussion. |
| 2009-08-25 11:33 AM in reply to: #2369312 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Daremo - 2009-08-25 11:25 AM Rogillio - 2009-08-25 12:17 PM Why do I feel like I'm trying to explain teh "who's on first" skit to Rainman! "If it gets easier you are not training hard enough" is a joke....a play on words...that's why it's funny! Obviosly it gets easier, that is irrefutable, it only stays hard if you push harder. I don't think it's BS to tell beginners that running does get easier! I believe it does with all my heart. Even if I get a little faster and run a little further, it STILL got easier. If someone is struggling to run a mile, what value is there in telling them "it doesn't get any easier!" If you want to make your point, tell them, running the same pace will get easier but, IF YOU ARE LIKE ME, you will want to run faster and faster. BTW, on a seperate note, I think "you FOPers" need to learn about the law of dimishing returns. You will eventually stop making gains and will assumptocially approach your genetic/age limit anyway. I just dialed in on my limit early in my career and have enjoyed s/b/r training w/o feeling like I'm killing myself.
~Mike I did say "politely" discuss, didn't I? And if you are referring to me with the diminishing returns thing, go look at my average paces and results. They really haven't changed/improved in the last 3 years (and considering I'm about to go onto a heart medication that I'll have to use for the rest of my life which will act like a governor for my heart I'm not going to improve much ever again), so I can guarantee you those elitist pr-ck FOPers are well aware of their physical limitations. But there are also 60+ year old guys running in the local races around here that are faster than the majority of the people in this forum, so if someone chooses to put out the effort, then they can maintain and improve as long as they want. (Unfortunately, I'm not at all surprised where this discussion has gone.)
Are you implying I'm not being polite or am I inferring something you didn't mean. I have posted everything in good-natured discussion tone. I'm sorry if I offened anyone. I bust everyone's chops and razz them and maybe I need to reel that in here...so as not to offend you sensitive types. Ooops, see there I go again.... Maybe I'm naive but I came to this discussion like a bunch of triathletes at the post-race bar drinking beers and eating begals and having a discussion. I'm sorry if my posts did not come across as such. ~Mike |
| 2009-08-25 11:33 AM in reply to: #2369080 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Ding ding ding ding! You have folks out there who train very little and still do well...and some people will say "I don't get why they waste talent" You have folks who train hours and hours and hours and are still BOP...and some people will say "I don't get why they would want to do that." You have folks who train for hours and hours and hours, and are FOP, top notch competitors...and some people will say "I want to be them"...but others say "I'd NEVER want to be them." everyone's got their own reasons for doing what they do. Some have the same motivations year after year, others change with the weather. I may not understand WTF is up with you, nor you with me, but as long as we keep 3 bike lengths between us, take off our headphones before we race, and make sure our bar ends are plugged, it's all kewl. |
| 2009-08-25 11:34 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Expert 927 Longview, TX | Subject: RE: So why is it???? MOP'er here, so I'm not a part of either group I guess. And I hope I don't get ostracized for these comments.... I think it might have something to do with the label of "triathlete". This is a label alot of people take great pride in. So much pride that people get a tattoo indicating they are an "Ironman". Guilty as charged. So I'm also guilty of being upset when I see people out on the course who aren't competing. It frustrates me to see people out on the course who are out there like it's their Sunday morning walk to the mailbox, or like riding a cruiser with their kids. The definition of a race is a competition of speed. The key words I believe here are competition and speed. I cannot see the reason in paying as much as triathlons cost, only to go out and not compete. Why not just just swim, bike, and run on your own time, without the race aspect, if your goal is just to swim, bike, and run while not competing? I still think you are a triathlete. And you've still accomplished your goal, with some extra money in your pocket! I know I shouldn't care about these people. To each, his own. If that's what they want to do, I guess that's fine. It's not physically affecting me any. It's not like I hate these people; I'm just confused and don't understand. But back to the label. It still bothers me when a non-triathlete puts me in the same class as these people. Sounds like I suffer from pride issues.... Or maybe the BOP'ers are going as hard as they can, and it's just my perception that they are casually going through the motions... |
| 2009-08-25 11:35 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Master 2802 Minnetonka, Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: So why is it???? x2 mmrocker - great post! Above post, not so much.... Edited by ejshowers 2009-08-25 11:36 AM |
| 2009-08-25 11:37 AM in reply to: #2369028 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Rogillio - 2009-08-25 8:05 AM I think FOP/MOP/BOP issues and discussion/debate reflect very real and heart-felt opinions. This site calls itself "Beginner" triathlon but I think that is misleading as we have beginners thru almost-professionals. I've been doing triathlons for 12 years but I still put myself in the beginer category becuase I'm a BOPer. This is probably wrong thinking but when I see guys going sub-10 hrs in their IM, I'm like "Good Lord, I'm not even in the same league with these guys!" So maybe there is a little inferiority complex. ;-) Anyway, my view from the BOP is that the FOP think that BOPers WANT to become FOPers. I have seen this is so many thread! Many people here assume that we are all trying to get faster and we are all trying to win. The worst people about this are the ones that say "...when I was a beginner, I was BOP too but now I'm winning my AG..." because they think that every BOPer should aspire to the same thing. Well, like the last dog in the dog-sled team said, "The view from the BOP is always the same....nothing but asholes infront of me!" j/k
~Mike Haven't read the whole thread yet, but the bolded comment jumped out at me... So you don't want to get faster, Mike? Serious question. And I'm not saying that your expectation (or anyone's) is that each and every race will be faster than all races before it (unrealistic, to say the least). Just...really? Why spend the money on race fees, then? Why not just exercise? Millions of people workout without ever entering a race. I'm not saying this to be provocative, but want to be able to take what you say as literally true and not--in itself--a sort of devil's advocacy (conscious or unconscious). I'll cop here to being a bit skeptical of people who say they never have time goals. But I want to point to something in Mike's comment that I think often becomes an issue in the sorts of threads Rick is reacting to (and I was thinking about on the drive home from the pool this morning, as it so happens): The equating in the part I have bolded above of a goal of "getting faster" with "winning" (note "and" winning in the wording, not "or"). This seems to be a trigger in some threads: The assumption that having a time (or other) goal beyond finishing the race implies something like "racing to win." I race to finish the best I can on any given day, but I have no illusions of winning. So I suspect there's a bit of a false division into "FOP" (people who can win) and "everyone else" (those who are showing up to finish). In my experience, there's a much broader continuum that includes a lot of people with multiple goals. And there's the assumption in Mike's comment that anyone who comments on their progress from BOP to AG winner must think others automatically aspire to the same thing. That--IMO--is nothing more than projection. There's usually nothing in anyone's words when they post about an achievement like that which directly or indirectly implies anything about other's motivations...only about what may be possible for others who might have aspirations and are struggling if they stick with their training. I think, and I hear it in Rick's OP, that there is a fair amount of this projection onto people who post about their achievements or their goals, i.e., that in posting they are asserting that everyone else operates from the same perspective they do. I can't say that I ever get that from the "FOP" folks. What I do get is an explicit assertion at times that no one should aspire to anything beyond finishing. That has been said in so many words more than once on this board...a recent example was a poster who said (in so many words) that everyone should find the IM distance "scary". So, at the least, I think it's fair to say there are plenty of examples of supposed "BOP" folks mapping their insecurities (or "inferiority complex" if you want to use Mike's words) onto everyone else. Sorry to ramble, but there have been--as Rick noted--a lot of these sorts of threads and similar dynamics in most of them, so it's been on my mind as well. |
| 2009-08-25 11:38 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Extreme Veteran 547 Canyon Hills (Lake Elsinore), CA | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I think this site is just like the world today. There are very competitive people who no matter what they are doing are not just trying to do it well, but do it great. Those same competitive people may be BOP at some point but the idea of not trying to become FOP is as foreign to them as childs sports not keeping score. There are others who believe that finishing an event/race is the true merrit of success and it doesn't matter in what order as long as the race was completed. Success and circumstances vary because they are personal to the individual. From what I have seen, it's not that these 2 different types of people dislike each other, it's that they don't understand each other and it's rare that anything can change that. |
| 2009-08-25 11:40 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Expert 803 MD | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Daremo - 2009-08-25 9:52 AM I'm just trying to understand the mentality of classifying a group and then making blatant over-generalizations that seem to be founded on very distorted personal views. Even when someone posts something that is very neutral and/or contradicts those ^^^^ suggestions there still seems to be some serious animosity. Not looking for arguments and in-fighting. Just trying to open up the discussion on where this apparently one-sided "hatred" (for lack of a better word) comes from. I'll step back from all the discussion about efforts, pace, and training levels for a minute. I suggest that the above quote from the OP could be applied to nearly any discussion forum on any topic, completely independent of triathlon. We live in a society that is very 'us against them', just look at our current political atmosphere. Even during relatively civil conversations, as with BT, people choose their sides and argue endlessly for their own point of view, often failing to acknowledge that the opposing view has its own merits. I think this mentality has invaded nearly all aspects of today's society. The implied anonymity of internet discussion forums makes it even worse - it's a lot easier to forget your civility when you are not face to face in a discussion. And, of course, a writer's true meaning can often be difficult to discern from an online post. Comments that sound elitist, sarcastic, or downright insulting online might be perceived differently when communicated in person. I actually find that BT is one of the most civil of the discussion forums with which I've been involved. Early on the BT forum content and discussion was very closely moderated and trolls and flames were quickly thrown out. And more recently, many BT'ers have started meeting face to face at races and events, which tends to moderate the tone of the forum. Yes, there are still subjects that spark a long heated debate where each side vigorously defends his/her point of view, but even these topics don't approach the actual hatred that often comes up in other venues. |
| 2009-08-25 11:41 AM in reply to: #2369261 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: So why is it???? KSH - 2009-08-25 11:10 AM Jealously? Annoyance? Hhhuummmm. I can say that yes, I have gotten pretty darn annoyed reading RR's from people who barely train and crush their AG. Or they run twice a week and keep a 7 minute mile easy. Or they ride 50 miles a week and go out and do a 21 mph average in a race. Yes, I've know people like that in this very board. I know a few MOP/BOP people who have posted in the logs (including me) how annoying and discouraging it is... for us to train year after year... not seeing any huge improvements... whereas other people DO see that. There I am, training my butt off day after day, year after year... and someone who hardly trains beats me on the bike and run. Like it's nothing. Yes, I get annoyed about it. But I also don't hate them for it. It's just who they are. There will always be someone more faster, and someone slower. Someone with more talent, someone with less. No sense getting annoyed by it. (And you know, a lot of folks who have an endurance sport base don't need to do as much to maintain...I can race at about the same level as I did years ago, but on about 1/3 of the time and intensity in training. It just comes from doing it a long time. Not that I'm great or anything, but I'm just saying--anyone can do the same with less after they've been at it for awhile.) |
| 2009-08-25 11:41 AM in reply to: #2369334 |
Champion 6962 Atlanta, Ga | Subject: RE: So why is it???? sigepbrad - 2009-08-25 12:30 PM Didn't talk to Trixie at made up tri in Michigan, because I knew how good she was already, and knew we didn't have anything in common. Ran into her at Steelhead HIM later. Turns out I was wrong again! Elite, yes. A-Hole, not even close. Gave me tips and made me feel like part of the club. -Brad I was with you and agreed until you mentioned Trixie. :P |
| 2009-08-25 11:41 AM in reply to: #2369273 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: So why is it???? mmrocker13 - 2009-08-25 11:14 AM I'm sure part of it happens b/c the internet is a silent medium... smilies and font colors only go so far, and some people's normal tone may come off as harsh or arrogant or meek and mild in print...but in real life they are totally different. It's easy to misconstrue things in a post, and it's certainly possible to take offense when there was none intended.
Slight highjack but I like the thought. I read once that only 30% of our communication is done with words...the rest is body language, facial experession, tone of voice etc. See you can determine the different meanings behind these with emphasis placed on different words:
I did not say she stole the book. I did not say she stole the book. I did not say she stole the book. I did not say she stole the book. I did not say she stole the book. I did not say she stole the book. I did not say she stole the book. 7 Statements useing the exact words and all having different meanings. Don't ya just love the Enlish language?!
~Mike |
| 2009-08-25 11:46 AM in reply to: #2369258 |
Master 1651 Breckenridge, CO | Subject: RE: So why is it???? JohnnyKay - 2009-08-25 10:09 AM Unlike Mike, I often don't think you can really tell "intent" from what people write on these boards. I've seen many instances of people 'reading things into' a post that aren't clearly there. I couldn't agree more. I try to chose my words very carefully. I try my best not to have any intent beyond what I clearly state with those words. In terms of how my intent is perceived, I have no idea how successful I am. IMO, if people considered only the actual words that people write (and what those words truly mean), a large percentage of internet arguments would disappear. IMO, in the absence of facial expressions and other context, it's logical to only consider the information that's available, which is the words. As far as the OP, I look at race results as the payoff from training investment. Many people choose to invest their time in other areas and that's perfectly great. Even among those who desire to be FOP but aren't there yet, I consider them just behind a bit in a time sequence. IMO, most everybody can get themselves to the top 10% in triathlon if they are willing to invest the time for a long enough period and make wise training/injury decisions. I too was a 'C' student all through school. I chose to invest my time otherwise and graduate with the least amount of effort possible. My personal academic performance was by design. I'd do the same thing again. But probably not as sucessfully considering that I think I am the only person in my school's history to graduate with less than a 3.0 GPA, which I was able to achieve by pure negotiation. |
| 2009-08-25 11:48 AM in reply to: #2369322 |
Extreme Veteran 682 Canton, MI. via Detroit | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Rogillio - 2009-08-25 11:27 AM mrmcmasty - 2009-08-25 11:19 AM I vote we table the discussion... it has caused me to grow tired.
You're not pushing yourself hard enough! Read some more!! ;-)
~Mike  OK. That was a good one. |
| 2009-08-25 11:53 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
| Regular 190 | Subject: RE: So why is it???? I am a MOP'er and a BOP'er, depending on who shows up that day. I started this journey a year ago 75 pounds heavier and with no ambition of ever doing a tri. Through this website and local triathletes I took on the challenge to get better, loose weight and compete. I concentrate on getting better by at least 1% everytime I do a tri. Whether it be in transitions or out on the course, because the only person I am really competing against is myself. If that 1% gain in speed wins me a medal, or gets me to beat the time limit at the local race, who cares? I am still better than the last time I raced no matter who was standing next to me on the beach. If anyone begrudges another person for trying to do their best, no matter where they finish, they have a skewed view of their own self importance. |
| 2009-08-25 11:54 AM in reply to: #2368971 |
Elite 4048 Gilbert, Az. | Subject: RE: So why is it???? Daremo - 2009-08-25 7:52 AM That threads that get into discussions about one's personal definition and interpretation or "finsish" versus "race" or ones on "timing requirements" or "race pacing" or etc. etc. always seem to degenerate get pared down to a few things: "All you FOP people treat the MOP and BOP like crap and are elitist." "The FOP don't enjoy the race and are too worried about 'x' or 'y' splits to have fun." "The FOP people just want the BOP out of the race." "Why do you care why they want to participate, they pay the same money as you?" I'm just trying to understand the mentality of classifying a group and then making blatant over-generalizations that seem to be founded on very distorted personal views. Even when someone posts something that is very neutral and/or contradicts those ^^^^ suggestions there still seems to be some serious animosity. Not looking for arguments and in-fighting. Just trying to open up the discussion on where this apparently one-sided "hatred" (for lack of a better word) comes from. From my personal experience, there are hardly any of those things evident in person from people on this board or in the tri community as a whole. Even the usual person on Slowtwitch that comes across as a total d-ck almost always ends up being a really nice guy/girl and very supportive of everyone in races. Other than someone getting frustrated in the middle of the race because their shoe got tangled up in someone's bike in transtion or someone swerves into another's path on the bike to avoid something (not intentionally), the tri crowd is extremely supportive and helpful toward other participants, volunteers and spectators. POLITELY discuss ............ I'm not going to read 4 pages, so I'm just going to throw this out there, repeat stuff that has probably already been said, and tromp all over some toes. :D I think a lot of it comes from your background. For a lot of beginners, or people that have not been athletic all their lives, it IS enough to finish. A lot of people treat the race as a social occasion, just because finishing or even toeing the line is a huge deal. Without blanketing the entire field, there are as many reasons to enter as there are people in the race. There are going to be people that have never exercised before in their life before getting ready for a tri, there are those that have done tri's and find them fun but could care less about podiums, once that would like to be podium but know it probably isn't going to happen, those that are always trying to get faster/better, and then you start getting into the higher competitive desires. And, I also think it depends on the event. For me, when I hit up a sprint, or an Olympic, I'm looking at podium in my AG with a good race. (More sprint than Olympic at this point). That is a realistic goal, finishing is almost a foregone conclusion, so just to finish isn't that big a deal for me. Done it before, do it again. When I do my first HIM/IM, my primary goal will be just to finish. I'm very competitive, so I'll have time goals as well, but just finishing will be enough for the first time out. After that, all bets are off. Sometimes it's hard for me to understand someone that could care less about the competition, just because I AM so competitive. Everyone has their own personal reasons for doing x, y or z. When someone else says "I don't understand how you can think that way", it's often taken as a personal attack, which prompts the defense, the "i get that, what I dont get" rebuttal, etc etc. John |
| 2009-08-25 11:58 AM in reply to: #2369349 |
Champion 8766 Evergreen, Colorado | Subject: RE: So why is it???? mmrocker13 - 2009-08-25 11:33 AM Ding ding ding ding! You have folks out there who train very little and still do well...and some people will say "I don't get why they waste talent" You have folks who train hours and hours and hours and are still BOP...and some people will say "I don't get why they would want to do that." You have folks who train for hours and hours and hours, and are FOP, top notch competitors...and some people will say "I want to be them"...but others say "I'd NEVER want to be them." everyone's got their own reasons for doing what they do. Some have the same motivations year after year, others change with the weather. I may not understand WTF is up with you, nor you with me, but as long as we keep 3 bike lengths between us, take off our headphones before we race, and make sure our bar ends are plugged, it's all kewl. Yup. That hits it. Personal opinions are just that...personal. And very very often people are unable to relate to someone else's personal opinion. And when they can't relate to it they decide that it's obviously wrong. The much better approach is to think, "Well, I wouldn't do it, but to each his own." Now, I realize I haven't always done this...both on this board and in real life. But it's something to work towards. Never judge a man unless you've walked a mile (or 140.6?) in his shoes...it's a good rule to live by. |
| 2009-08-25 12:00 PM in reply to: #2369352 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: So why is it???? jcbolton - 2009-08-25 11:34 AM MOP'er here, so I'm not a part of either group I guess. And I hope I don't get ostracized for these comments.... I think it might have something to do with the label of "triathlete". This is a label alot of people take great pride in. So much pride that people get a tattoo indicating they are an "Ironman". Guilty as charged. So I'm also guilty of being upset when I see people out on the course who aren't competing. It frustrates me to see people out on the course who are out there like it's their Sunday morning walk to the mailbox, or like riding a cruiser with their kids. The definition of a race is a competition of speed. The key words I believe here are competition and speed. I cannot see the reason in paying as much as triathlons cost, only to go out and not compete. Why not just just swim, bike, and run on your own time, without the race aspect, if your goal is just to swim, bike, and run while not competing? I still think you are a triathlete. And you've still accomplished your goal, with some extra money in your pocket! I know I shouldn't care about these people. To each, his own. If that's what they want to do, I guess that's fine. It's not physically affecting me any. It's not like I hate these people; I'm just confused and don't understand. But back to the label. It still bothers me when a non-triathlete puts me in the same class as these people. Sounds like I suffer from pride issues.... Or maybe the BOP'ers are going as hard as they can, and it's just my perception that they are casually going through the motions... Well, some of those efforts that seem casual might be very tough for them. I know for me... if my effort level is reduced it's either: 1) I have a side cramp. 2) I feeling fatigued and can't go any faster. 3) I just don't like the discomfort of the pain from going faster. I finally realized that with me and running... now that my injuries have subsided (for the time being), I was holding myself back for fear of... a side cramp... getting injured... feeling discomfort. Now I have started to analyze WHY I want to walk. Do I REALLY NEED to walk? Or do I just want to walk because it will feel better than running does at that moment. ? Everyone has their own mental limits on the amount of discomfort they are willing to endure. For some... they want to minimize the suffering by not running... or by going slower. For others, their going slower is all they have in them that day. |
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