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2013-10-02 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by Zero2Athlete
Originally posted by noelle1230

Dude!!  Yikes!!

So, since I know you AND I know the girl I have a pretty good idea here.

My guess is that you're question stems not from the issue of changing names/not changing names......it's that she's subtly telling you she's giving you six months to take it that next level of commitment or else.  Right??

I can tell you why she seemed to flip-flop.  She's a tough chick, but still a chick.  I get this concept in a big way.  She wants to stay tough, protect herself....but she still has emotions and sometimes it's tough to balance the toughness and the emotions.  

She meets you, is not that invested yet, has her "I don't give a crap about marriage" wall up.  Now months later, she's invested, she loves you and she's letting the wall down, but it's a slow process.  Instead of just coming right out, emoting, saying "look, I really love you and hope this leads to marriage", she's telling you in subtle ways because opening up THAT much is hard for the girl.

But the most important question I have for you is this.......are you thinking marriage with this girl or not?  If not, do you need more time?  Or is this the point at which you face the fact that she's not "the one"?  Or do you want to be with her forever but don't want to do the marriage thing again?

Lol..Good call, A. I'd guess you're right on with the "wants to stay independent and checked out" at first, but subsequently realized that I'm an amazing catch. I'm not certain "Or else" what, though..that she'll move on if I don't commit, Or that seriously, she's changing her name to her dad's and won't change it if we do get married after that. I think she's bluffing either way, though. Maybe even to herself. As for me..I'm certainly considering. I hadn't really thought of when...just "eventually." She'd be pretty hard to replace, and I'm not afraid of marriage again..I just don't want to do the divorce thing again. I don't think I have to marry her within 6 months, just ask. If I can't find a reason things won't work in that time, that's probably long enough, no? And no worries, I wouldn't be making this kind of decision without your input!

My guess is that she made that comment for one reason only......to fish for input from you on the marriage timeline.  You did not bite, mostly because you really weren't sure what she was getting at with the comment.

Trust me on this.  I doubt it has anything to do with the name change.  She's just putting the feelers out to see how close you are to popping the big Q but she's scared to just come right out and ask point blank.  So maybe you use it as a good jumping off point for conversation?

I think you two have something pretty genuine and have worked through some of the old relationship baggage that accompanies most of us who are still dating (or dating again) in our mid-30's and beyond.  You are definitely a catch and she seems to realize and appreciate that.  And not only is she cool with driving 6 hours to the middle of nowhere to camp and climb, but she can lead a sport route....yes, keep her! Wink



Edited by noelle1230 2013-10-02 2:11 PM


2013-10-02 2:21 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by chirunner134 Now you guys are making me second guess mine. When been together for about 2.5 years now. living together for 1. Figures someday when we are old and for legal reason it would make sense but until then there is no point. If we have kids she might change her mind but her turning 40 that might not happen. She talked about changing her last name to mine. Just not having any legal responsibility to me.

What does everyone think about a woman who wants to marry you, but she also wants to keep her last name?  Apparently it's not unheard of (here in the South it's not common at all), but I'm not sure how I feel about it.  

Beause I am a physician and it would have horrible PITA repurcussions to change it and it would be yet another reason for insurers to not pay me for 6 months til all the paperwork was correct.  No way hoser...........unless someoen wants to support me to the manner in which I am accustomed and let me retire and never have to practice medicine again.  Sigh.  Sadly that is not going to happen

2013-10-02 2:29 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by chirunner134 Now you guys are making me second guess mine. When been together for about 2.5 years now. living together for 1. Figures someday when we are old and for legal reason it would make sense but until then there is no point. If we have kids she might change her mind but her turning 40 that might not happen. She talked about changing her last name to mine. Just not having any legal responsibility to me.

What does everyone think about a woman who wants to marry you, but she also wants to keep her last name?  Apparently it's not unheard of (here in the South it's not common at all), but I'm not sure how I feel about it.  




My wife kept her name. Honestly, I never thought much about it. It's her name, she can do what she wants with it. Our son has my name. We know a few couples where the wife kept her name and the kids' names are hyphenated, but that sounds like a lot of work...
2013-10-02 2:30 PM
in reply to: Socks

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
When we got married, we both decided to just use symbols.  "And introducing for the first time, the couple formerly known as..."
2013-10-02 5:10 PM
in reply to: Zero2Athlete

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...

Originally posted by Zero2Athlete
Originally posted by BikerGrrrl I'm still trying to figure out why she's going to change her name to her Dad's.  The whole thing is very weird.
Not so weird... Not to tell her whole story, but her name is neither her mom's nor her dad's. Obviously she has no problem changing it, so if she would refuse to take mine that would be an issue for me. (Except that she also recently mentioned that if my ex still had my last name, she would never take it. Disappointing but understandable... However, I just learned that my ex got remarried last weekend...so that problem is solved. That's what started the whole name-changing conversation.

If you say so.

I had the same reaction as BikerGrrrl, your explanation helps to explain what the heck your girlfriend was talking about, but only made more warning sirens spin up in my head by the time I finished reading your paragraph. I realize we are just getting a narrow snapshot here, but that is how things are typically, I'd be out of my league trying to navigate in that relationship.

2013-10-02 7:01 PM
in reply to: Zero2Athlete

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by Zero2Athlete

repeatedly state from onset of dating that she doesn't think marriage is necessary... Now 7 months later she'd had a few drinks and told me that she was giving it 6 months and she was going to change her last name to her Dad's, and if she did that she would never change it again. Then she looked me right in the eyes and said "Just so you know."

I'm not sure if this post was a question about what she wants or a quick rant on chicks not just saying what they want.


Dude, that's insane.
I think my reaction to the, "I'm giving it 6 months..." ridiculousness would be to laugh and say, "Why give it 6 months? That sounds disrespectful to your dad." ...and then I'd laugh.
If she has a good sense of humor, she'll laugh. If not, there are plenty o' fish in the sea with great senses of humor.



2013-10-02 9:06 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by msteiner
Originally posted by trinnas
Originally posted by msteiner
Originally posted by trinnas
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by chirunner134 Now you guys are making me second guess mine. When been together for about 2.5 years now. living together for 1. Figures someday when we are old and for legal reason it would make sense but until then there is no point. If we have kids she might change her mind but her turning 40 that might not happen. She talked about changing her last name to mine. Just not having any legal responsibility to me.

What does everyone think about a woman who wants to marry you, but she also wants to keep her last name?  Apparently it's not unheard of (here in the South it's not common at all), but I'm not sure how I feel about it.  

I kept my last name, my husband never had a problem with it.

May I ask what was you're reason for deciding to keep yours?  I'm curious, since I live in a region where girls can't wait to change their last name, status, etc. on facebook when they get married.

Well I was never one of those girls in the first place. I didn't get married till my mid 30's and by that time I was established with my last name and I saw no reason to change it.

That's the main reason for her wanting keep hers.  She's in the medical field and has journals published, so she doesn't want to feel like she has to start over again.  I understand and respect that.  

I'll admit that my pause comes from feeling like it defies a tradition that only exists for the sake of the tradition today.  Part of me growing, I suppose.

It is interesting how regional/demographically this differs. I do think you will find it totally ok, but I have never lived in the US SE.

then consider other cultures and countries - I read how in Portugal, a woman will commonly have 2 given names and 6 surnames due to custom of combining. Who could keep track?

my husband and I are both geologists in the mining industry - I was 39 when we married, and he is from the non-Latin S. American country of Suriname. I never thought twice about changing my name, but that might be tied to not seeing a reason to get married until I was 39. He didn't particularly care because it is not really a thing in his country. In our "group" (Geologists) it is probably about 50% split of couples that keep their name vs take a new one. I was talking to a neighbor (hair stylist) and she admitted she was still surprised when she met married people with differing last names and i said I was surprised the opposite way. we both shrugged, and she told me she also didn't like getting dirty and thought it was cool I did. it is Not a big deal. The biggest issue, if even to call it that, is providing the marriage cert when getting health insurance based on the fact that our last names were not the same. i pointed out that changing your last name without marriage is an easier process in the US, so maybe you should require everyone to prove legal marriage.

For consistancy's sake, the dog and cat are listed under his last name at the vet and boarding place, so there is our nod to tradition.

For the OP: Ask her to explain - if you are willing to discuss it with us on the Internet, but not with her, where does that leave you two?

2013-10-03 8:09 AM
in reply to: Zero2Athlete

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...

Easy peasy solution.  Use this chart:

 

[ducks]

 

Though, after reading Noelle's explanation, I agree with LB.  No wonder I have no idea what my wife is talking about 90% of the time either.

2013-10-03 8:13 AM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...

I read this at first and thought, I don't know what she even means. Six months and I'm changing to my dad's name?

Then I just reread it and thought, oh she totally is giving you the ultimatum.  You have six months to decide to marry me, and after that if we do, I won't change my name from my dad's name.

I dunno.  A weird flippant comment but one that is clearly on her mind. I'd start by asking that dreaded question "what are we doing?"

2013-10-03 8:15 AM
in reply to: noelle1230

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by noelle1230
Originally posted by Zero2Athlete
Originally posted by noelle1230

Dude!!  Yikes!!

So, since I know you AND I know the girl I have a pretty good idea here.

My guess is that you're question stems not from the issue of changing names/not changing names......it's that she's subtly telling you she's giving you six months to take it that next level of commitment or else.  Right??

I can tell you why she seemed to flip-flop.  She's a tough chick, but still a chick.  I get this concept in a big way.  She wants to stay tough, protect herself....but she still has emotions and sometimes it's tough to balance the toughness and the emotions.  

She meets you, is not that invested yet, has her "I don't give a crap about marriage" wall up.  Now months later, she's invested, she loves you and she's letting the wall down, but it's a slow process.  Instead of just coming right out, emoting, saying "look, I really love you and hope this leads to marriage", she's telling you in subtle ways because opening up THAT much is hard for the girl.

But the most important question I have for you is this.......are you thinking marriage with this girl or not?  If not, do you need more time?  Or is this the point at which you face the fact that she's not "the one"?  Or do you want to be with her forever but don't want to do the marriage thing again?

Lol..Good call, A. I'd guess you're right on with the "wants to stay independent and checked out" at first, but subsequently realized that I'm an amazing catch. I'm not certain "Or else" what, though..that she'll move on if I don't commit, Or that seriously, she's changing her name to her dad's and won't change it if we do get married after that. I think she's bluffing either way, though. Maybe even to herself. As for me..I'm certainly considering. I hadn't really thought of when...just "eventually." She'd be pretty hard to replace, and I'm not afraid of marriage again..I just don't want to do the divorce thing again. I don't think I have to marry her within 6 months, just ask. If I can't find a reason things won't work in that time, that's probably long enough, no? And no worries, I wouldn't be making this kind of decision without your input!

My guess is that she made that comment for one reason only......to fish for input from you on the marriage timeline.  You did not bite, mostly because you really weren't sure what she was getting at with the comment.

Trust me on this.  I doubt it has anything to do with the name change.  She's just putting the feelers out to see how close you are to popping the big Q but she's scared to just come right out and ask point blank.  So maybe you use it as a good jumping off point for conversation?

I think you two have something pretty genuine and have worked through some of the old relationship baggage that accompanies most of us who are still dating (or dating again) in our mid-30's and beyond.  You are definitely a catch and she seems to realize and appreciate that.  And not only is she cool with driving 6 hours to the middle of nowhere to camp and climb, but she can lead a sport route....yes, keep her! Wink

ding ding ding! 

2013-10-03 8:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by turtlegirl
Originally posted by noelle1230
Originally posted by Zero2Athlete
Originally posted by noelle1230

Dude!!  Yikes!!

So, since I know you AND I know the girl I have a pretty good idea here.

My guess is that you're question stems not from the issue of changing names/not changing names......it's that she's subtly telling you she's giving you six months to take it that next level of commitment or else.  Right??

I can tell you why she seemed to flip-flop.  She's a tough chick, but still a chick.  I get this concept in a big way.  She wants to stay tough, protect herself....but she still has emotions and sometimes it's tough to balance the toughness and the emotions.  

She meets you, is not that invested yet, has her "I don't give a crap about marriage" wall up.  Now months later, she's invested, she loves you and she's letting the wall down, but it's a slow process.  Instead of just coming right out, emoting, saying "look, I really love you and hope this leads to marriage", she's telling you in subtle ways because opening up THAT much is hard for the girl.

But the most important question I have for you is this.......are you thinking marriage with this girl or not?  If not, do you need more time?  Or is this the point at which you face the fact that she's not "the one"?  Or do you want to be with her forever but don't want to do the marriage thing again?

Lol..Good call, A. I'd guess you're right on with the "wants to stay independent and checked out" at first, but subsequently realized that I'm an amazing catch. I'm not certain "Or else" what, though..that she'll move on if I don't commit, Or that seriously, she's changing her name to her dad's and won't change it if we do get married after that. I think she's bluffing either way, though. Maybe even to herself. As for me..I'm certainly considering. I hadn't really thought of when...just "eventually." She'd be pretty hard to replace, and I'm not afraid of marriage again..I just don't want to do the divorce thing again. I don't think I have to marry her within 6 months, just ask. If I can't find a reason things won't work in that time, that's probably long enough, no? And no worries, I wouldn't be making this kind of decision without your input!

My guess is that she made that comment for one reason only......to fish for input from you on the marriage timeline.  You did not bite, mostly because you really weren't sure what she was getting at with the comment.

Trust me on this.  I doubt it has anything to do with the name change.  She's just putting the feelers out to see how close you are to popping the big Q but she's scared to just come right out and ask point blank.  So maybe you use it as a good jumping off point for conversation?

I think you two have something pretty genuine and have worked through some of the old relationship baggage that accompanies most of us who are still dating (or dating again) in our mid-30's and beyond.  You are definitely a catch and she seems to realize and appreciate that.  And not only is she cool with driving 6 hours to the middle of nowhere to camp and climb, but she can lead a sport route....yes, keep her! Wink

ding ding ding! 

Why is it that women seem more likely to drop hints about what they want rather than just coming out and saying it?  Don't you realize that most of us men need to be hit over the head with a 2x4 to get the point?  For the most part, hints and suggestions don't work with us.

ETA:  It leaves us confused, and we either have to ask our female friends to interpret or start a thread on BT.



Edited by TriMyBest 2013-10-03 8:36 AM


2013-10-03 8:41 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
BC when we are direct, it scares guys away.  Just asking a question is enough to make guys bail.  She doesn't want to lose him, but doesn't want to fully invest unless he is.
2013-10-03 8:42 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
The man who isn't scared chitless by a very direct woman is rare. And all of you men sitting there saying "I'm not! I think that would be awesome" have probably not ever had a really strong woman in your life;)
2013-10-03 8:44 AM
in reply to: switch

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Originally posted by switch The man who isn't scared chitless by a very direct woman is rare. And all of you men sitting there saying "I'm not! I think that would be awesome" have probably not ever had a really strong woman in your life

oh, I like you.

2013-10-03 8:47 AM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...

Originally posted by switch The man who isn't scared chitless by a very direct woman is rare. And all of you men sitting there saying "I'm not! I think that would be awesome" have probably not ever had a really strong woman in your life

You don't know my wife.

2013-10-03 8:51 AM
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Originally posted by turtlegirl BC when we are direct, it scares guys away.  Just asking a question is enough to make guys bail.  She doesn't want to lose him, but doesn't want to fully invest unless he is.

I don't buy that, because it doesn't just happen while dating, and only with the big things in life.

Those of us who have been married for years will still have our wives drop hints that they feel like going out to dinner or repaint the bedroom rather than just saying it.  Us guys are often so out of tune with those subtleties that we don't even notice that you're trying to communicate something.

Besides, if asking a question causes a guy to bail, then the relationship was probably destined to fail anyway, so even in that situation, it's a poor strategy.



2013-10-03 8:52 AM
in reply to: turtlegirl

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by turtlegirl

Originally posted by switch The man who isn't scared chitless by a very direct woman is rare. And all of you men sitting there saying "I'm not! I think that would be awesome" have probably not ever had a really strong woman in your life

oh, I like you.




So there's direct then then there's "psycho".

Most guys are scared off by a girl who starts talking marriage in the first few months. Not because she's being direct, but because she's coming off as a bit psycho and clingy.... "Oh, I known you 3 months... I want to get married and have your babies!" Yeah, most guys would run, and I don't blame them.

With that said, I got engaged to my first (and only thus far) husband after 1 month. We were BOTH talking marriage and wanted to get married. We were on the same page. So yes, those things DO happen, but if it's just the girl being "direct" and talking marriage then the guy is usually scared off.

With that said, I'm a direct woman. I tell my boyfriend exactly what I need and what I mean. If something doesn't or does bother me, he knows he can trust what I say when I say it. There's no reading between the lines with me. He's not scared off by a strong, direct woman.

2013-10-03 8:53 AM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...

Originally posted by switch The man who isn't scared chitless by a very direct woman is rare. And all of you men sitting there saying "I'm not! I think that would be awesome" have probably not ever had a really strong woman in your life

You're losing me now. Why would we be scared of a strong direct woman?

2013-10-03 8:57 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by turtlegirl BC when we are direct, it scares guys away.  Just asking a question is enough to make guys bail.  She doesn't want to lose him, but doesn't want to fully invest unless he is.

I don't buy that, because it doesn't just happen while dating, and only with the big things in life.

Those of us who have been married for years will still have our wives drop hints that they feel like going out to dinner or repaint the bedroom rather than just saying it.  Us guys are often so out of tune with those subtleties that we don't even notice that you're trying to communicate something.

Because when a woman is "direct" they are often labeled a beeyotch or a nag. Then the guy will complain about THAT. Clearly there's a balance somewhere, but sometimes it's hard to navigate. 

2013-10-03 9:00 AM
in reply to: KSH

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Originally posted by KSH
Originally posted by turtlegirl

Originally posted by switch The man who isn't scared chitless by a very direct woman is rare. And all of you men sitting there saying "I'm not! I think that would be awesome" have probably not ever had a really strong woman in your life

oh, I like you.

So there's direct then then there's "psycho". Most guys are scared off by a girl who starts talking marriage in the first few months. Not because she's being direct, but because she's coming off as a bit psycho and clingy.... "Oh, I known you 3 months... I want to get married and have your babies!" Yeah, most guys would run, and I don't blame them. With that said, I got engaged to my first (and only thus far) husband after 1 month. We were BOTH talking marriage and wanted to get married. We were on the same page. So yes, those things DO happen, but if it's just the girl being "direct" and talking marriage then the guy is usually scared off. With that said, I'm a direct woman. I tell my boyfriend exactly what I need and what I mean. If something doesn't or does bother me, he knows he can trust what I say when I say it. There's no reading between the lines with me. He's not scared off by a strong, direct woman.
\

I like you too karen!  now I just need to find a man that likes this too! 

2013-10-03 9:10 AM
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My wife is absolutely direct.  I wouldn't have married her if she wasn't.  And yeah, she can be a real beeyotch....so what?  She certainly doesn't have the market cornered in that regard. Laughing


2013-10-03 9:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by KSH
Originally posted by turtlegirl

Originally posted by switch The man who isn't scared chitless by a very direct woman is rare. And all of you men sitting there saying "I'm not! I think that would be awesome" have probably not ever had a really strong woman in your life

oh, I like you.

So there's direct then then there's "psycho". Most guys are scared off by a girl who starts talking marriage in the first few months. Not because she's being direct, but because she's coming off as a bit psycho and clingy.... "Oh, I known you 3 months... I want to get married and have your babies!" Yeah, most guys would run, and I don't blame them. With that said, I got engaged to my first (and only thus far) husband after 1 month. We were BOTH talking marriage and wanted to get married. We were on the same page. So yes, those things DO happen, but if it's just the girl being "direct" and talking marriage then the guy is usually scared off. With that said, I'm a direct woman. I tell my boyfriend exactly what I need and what I mean. If something doesn't or does bother me, he knows he can trust what I say when I say it. There's no reading between the lines with me. He's not scared off by a strong, direct woman.
Yes, direct and "psycho" are very different. In my experience, the "psycho" ones are not the strong ones.
2013-10-03 9:13 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by lisac957
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by turtlegirl BC when we are direct, it scares guys away.  Just asking a question is enough to make guys bail.  She doesn't want to lose him, but doesn't want to fully invest unless he is.

I don't buy that, because it doesn't just happen while dating, and only with the big things in life.

Those of us who have been married for years will still have our wives drop hints that they feel like going out to dinner or repaint the bedroom rather than just saying it.  Us guys are often so out of tune with those subtleties that we don't even notice that you're trying to communicate something.

Because when a woman is "direct" they are often labeled a beeyotch or a nag. Then the guy will complain about THAT. Clearly there's a balance somewhere, but sometimes it's hard to navigate. 

This conversation is starting to make my head hurt.  Laughing

I must be an odd guy, because if my wife says "Hey, what do you think about us going out for dinner tonight instead of cooking?" or "I think we should start working on the leaves in the yard this weekend." instead of "I don't know what we should have for dinner tonight." or "The leaves are changing color on the trees and starting to drop", I don't feel nagged at all.  I'm appreciative that we're having a direct adult conversation where I don't need to try to figure out what she's really thinking.  I only feel nagged if her approach is "You never take me out to dinner" or "You've been reading BT all morning, and the leaves are piling up in the yard."

From my perspective, the first is direct, neutral, and makes us equal partners; the second vague and confusing; and the last is negative, accusatory, and comes across as trying to enforce dominance.

2013-10-03 9:13 AM
in reply to: lisac957

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Subject: RE: Why would a girl...
Originally posted by lisac957
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by turtlegirl BC when we are direct, it scares guys away.  Just asking a question is enough to make guys bail.  She doesn't want to lose him, but doesn't want to fully invest unless he is.

I don't buy that, because it doesn't just happen while dating, and only with the big things in life.

Those of us who have been married for years will still have our wives drop hints that they feel like going out to dinner or repaint the bedroom rather than just saying it.  Us guys are often so out of tune with those subtleties that we don't even notice that you're trying to communicate something.

Because when a woman is "direct" they are often labeled a beeyotch or a nag. Then the guy will complain about THAT. Clearly there's a balance somewhere, but sometimes it's hard to navigate. 

That depends on the person.  There's a difference between being direct and blunt.

2013-10-03 9:41 AM
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Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: Why would a girl...

Originally posted by Left Brain My wife is absolutely direct.  I wouldn't have married her if she wasn't.  And yeah, she can be a real beeyotch....so what?  She certainly doesn't have the market cornered in that regard. Laughing

Wait, you said that, you called your wife a....beeyotch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LGEiIL1__s



Edited by Brit Abroad 2013-10-03 9:45 AM
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