SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! (Page 33)

I think it's a tough call.  In most cases, like Ben mentioned, I would have rested for 30ish seconds once I seen the power drop then made a hard surge to pass.  But since you were going downhill roughly 27 mph (I hate metric ), the legal draft effect increases and the increase in speed you would have seen by putting down 20 extra watts while up front would have been extremely minimal.

I tried playing around with cycling power lab.  

I tried running 5 scenarios.

1. 85 kg rider/bike, .270 CdA, default temp/humidity/wind, -1.1% slope, 10 km segment, 234 watts = 44.02 km/hr, 13:37

2. 85 kg rider/bike, .270 CdA, default temp/humidity/wind, -1.1% slope, 10 km segment, 255 watts = 45.02 km/hr, 13:17

3. 85 kg rider/bike, .275 CdA, default temp/humidity/wind, -1.1% slope, 10 km segment, 255 watts = 44.83 km/hr, 13:23

4.  85 kg rider/bike, .280 CdA, default temp/humidity/wind, -1.1% slope, 10 km segment, 255 watts = 44.55 km/hr, 13:28

5. 85 kg rider/bike, .285 CdA, default temp/humidity/wind, -1.1% slope, 10 km segment, 255 watts = 44.28 km/hr, 13:33

Scenario #1 and #2 is simply comparing what speeds you would have gone at two different power levels assuming there was no aerodynamic difference.  Scenario 3, 4 and 5 tries to assume a how fast you would have gone had you made the pass, held your 255 watts, but you suffered a penalty in CdA because you are no longer getting the legal draft.  I have no clue what the penalty actually is in terms of CdA for a legal draft (WAY to many factors), but I just did 3 scenarios where the CdA increases by 0.05 each time.

You can see that even in scenario 5 with a 0.15 CdA penalty, (which is pretty significant), you still end up 4 seconds faster on the bike...but the question is what does that cost you on the run?  If you were extra cautious on staying legal (an extra bike length back), then maybe you were closer to scenario #3 which would have let you bike 14 seconds faster.  Over the course of a 5k run, that's a pretty significant gap.

Maybe Marc can chime in and clean up my math and assumptions.  Certainly an interesting thing to ponder.  But if you were not going downhill and speeds were lower, I would be more inclined to pass as the impacts of air resistance are not as magnified.

very cool stuff Jason.

FWIW Arend I personally wouldn't expect to be able to hold my overall goal watts on a downhill section of a course - the aerobic overhead would be too high, at least for us little underpowered guys. It can be a bit easier for bigger dudes as I understand it though. I would have passed in that situation if I wasn't taxed aerobically. For all you know he may have simply slowed down because he didn't want to tow YOU back to T2. That is the only way you could find out if he had enough left to stay with you (then you let him overtake you again and you both then work the legal draft back to T2) or you would ride away at your goal watts. I don't have a good enough swim to hardly ever be with folks strong enough to work legally together on the bike, but I am close enough to see that the guys at the front do whenever the opportunity arises. Nothing wrong with that so long as you keep it legal.

I'm with the "go for it" opinion for a sprint, maybe even an Oly.  Last Oly I did, I gave everything I had on the bike and still had a good run, for me.  But I guess that depends if your knee was healed and how it was feeling.

The other part of me says you were already averaging right around 24mph which is nothing to sneeze at.

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Oh man, wish I hadn't seen this #gonnagetcrushedinmilwaukee!!!!      Looks like a great fit. 

Originally posted by ChrisM

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Oh man, wish I hadn't seen this #gonnagetcrushedinmilwaukee!!!!      Looks like a great fit. 

I wouldn't worry that much with your 1300 watt FTP.  Besides...Rusty doesn't even use his bike shoes.  

Originally posted by ChrisM

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Oh man, wish I hadn't seen this #gonnagetcrushedinmilwaukee!!!!      Looks like a great fit. 

You should just hope he continues to ride with his feet on top of his shoes instead of in them

Awwww, now you-all have hurt my feelings. You know I am from Alabama and none of us even HAVE shoes!!!!

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by ChrisM

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Oh man, wish I hadn't seen this #gonnagetcrushedinmilwaukee!!!!      Looks like a great fit. 

I wouldn't worry that much with your 1300 watt FTP.  Besides...Rusty doesn't even use his bike shoes.  

shhhhh, that was my secret weapon he isn't supposed to know about.

And he is brave enough to race as number 13, doesn't even flip it over

Thanks for all the thoughts on my question and thanks Jason for running some numbers.  Makes me feel that even if I should have passed, I didn't throw away huge amounts of time (although 23 seconds would have moved me up to 10th OA....).

Looking more closely at the data, for the first half of the return leg I was still at 245w so not down so much.  After that it dropped down to 220 for the rest right after we went up and over an overpass and had a spike in power.  That probably would have been the time to pass as that spike may have gassed him a bit and caused the drop in power.

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by ChrisM

!

Oh man, wish I hadn't seen this #gonnagetcrushedinmilwaukee!!!!      Looks like a great fit. 

I wouldn't worry that much with your 1300 watt FTP.  Besides...Rusty doesn't even use his bike shoes.  

 

shhhhh, that was my secret weapon he isn't supposed to know about.

And he is brave enough to race as number 13, doesn't even flip it over

Rusty, that's a great looking fit and a great looking ride!  I especially like the color coordinated water bottle with the red lid accent.  You need to get a touch of red on the helmet somehow.  

Still amazed with some things at Racine. Kinda wish I had gone to see it. Pro list includes Lionel Sanders, Starky, Tim O'Donnell, Rapp and some other regional guys. Sanders (again) broke under 1:10 on the run and caught Starky with ~half a mile left. Women had Melissa Hauschildt and Helle Frederickson battling it out.

Also looking at the age group results. Scott Bowe puts up a 4:17 and gets 5th in M35-39. Another guy I know is trying to get a pro card ended up 5th OA with a 4:14, and was behind the same 4 guys.

Arend - I had the same situation at my last race and same thoughts in my head during the ride.

I was pushing 245-250W on the out section to the turnaround where these 2 guys caught me and passed me.  I was able to get in a legal draft and my power started dropping.  I passed them 2 times and each time they re-passed.  I figured since I was riding so well on the way out and they caught me that it was probably best to get the aid of  legal draft and save it for the run which worked out well.  My power dropped to 235-240 for the way back.

It's nice to have a local guy (Sanders) to cheer for.  Good story about where he's come from and where he is today as well.  If he figures out the swim, he'll be tough to beat at this distance.

Sanders did the Grand Rapids HIM 3 or 4 years ago when it was a small race.  He swam like 38 minutes or something and then demolished everybody on the bike and run to win.  Amazing that he has that swim down to 26 minutes already.  I would say he is well on his way.

and if you read his race reports, it seems like he's still just figuring out the bike too.

Have my first SOS-specific workout this Sunday

2.5 miles easy run
.5 mile swim
4 miles easy run
.5 mile swim
2.5 miles easy run
.5 mile swim
1 mile run

This is all in succession, in the ocean and up in the adjacent hills, carrying everything I need with me, swimming with shoes and carrying cap/goggle on the run (may set up a bottle at the car as the "aid station").  I've switched to zoot ultra tts for the shoes, they'll fit better shoved down the shorts and drain better.  Also trying to figure out how best to do the shoe off /on thing.  I'm told it's best to run into the water, take off shoes there, and put them back on before getting out.

It will be interesting, if nothing else......

The look on the faces of random strangers in the area would be priceless...

Yeah, he's no slouch on the bike either! Not sure I've seen the guy yet to know if he's well set up there.