General Discussion Triathlon Talk » No finish line friends at IM and HIMs Rss Feed  
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2009-03-12 7:45 AM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
slake707 - 2009-03-11 11:07 PM
JorgeM - 2009-03-11 1:48 PM Sure, the finishing rule with a family member or your entire family plus your cat, dog and parrot is not as frown upon as drafting...


If my parrot is on my shoulder the whole way can he cross with me since he did the distance?
unless it swims, bikes and runs no, it then should get DQ for outside asistance from you!


2009-03-12 8:20 AM
in reply to: #2010726

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs

I hate to be "that guy" and 99.9% of the time I feel like a rule can be made, enforced, and lived with (even if it doesn't make everyone happy) but with some of these events would it make sense to setup a split finisher chute, one side for friends/family finish and one where it is strictly prohibited?

IMHO, the race fees are sort of up there for IM branded events and setting up a split finish chute probably wouldn't cost that much more. Different strokes for different folks. I just can't imagine if I was finishing the run and the time was reading x:59:50 and I had a shot to keep it under X hours but missed out because someone stepped out in front of me with their family. I also can't imagine training for months (years) and not being able to share some of that joy with family for but just 30 seconds at the end.

2009-03-12 8:54 AM
in reply to: #2011167

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs

IM - M-Dot is a business and they are in business to make money and DQing people at the finishline  is bad press.  Just not ever gonna happen! 

Yeah, so now instead of turning away 500 people at on-line registration after a race fills up they will have to turn away only 498 people cuz 2 people got pissed off when they heard WTC DQ'd a racer that blatantly violated the rules.  WTC better start getting in line for some of that stimulus package money cuz they're gonna be in a world of hurt if they follow thru on this idiotic policy.



Edited by Birkierunner 2009-03-12 8:58 AM
2009-03-12 10:26 AM
in reply to: #2012857

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
Birkierunner - 2009-03-12 8:54 AM

IM - M-Dot is a business and they are in business to make money and DQing people at the finishline  is bad press.  Just not ever gonna happen! 

Yeah, so now instead of turning away 500 people at on-line registration after a race fills up they will have to turn away only 498 people cuz 2 people got pissed off when they heard WTC DQ'd a racer that blatantly violated the rules.  WTC better start getting in line for some of that stimulus package money cuz they're gonna be in a world of hurt if they follow thru on this idiotic policy.

 

By 'bad press' I'm talking about an article in the local paper "62 year old grandfather of three came hobling to the finishline at 16:50, just 10 minutes before the 17 hr cut-off.  As he approached the finish line, his wife of 40 years ran out to meet him and immediatly WTC DQ'd him and told him he could not finish the race!  Just 15 seconds before crossing the finish line he was DQ'd by those hearless bastreds!  He and his wife broke down in tears at his dreams of becoming an ironman were ripped from him.  His two year of training just went down the tubes...."  bla, bla, bla

A city hosting an ironman does not always welcome ironman.  *gasp*  It cuases a lot of traffic problems for the city and many of the local people simply do not like their town being over-run with triathletes...who litter their streets with gu wrappers.  I think the human interest finishes like the picture above go a long way towards winning the hearts of the locals.  Take this away and you've done more damage to the sport than good. 

Then again, I'm a softie for people who get all emotional at the finishline.  There is a woman on my IM video that starts to sob just as she crosses the finishline as she is overwhelmed with emotion.  Every time I watch that video I get a lump in my throat and my eyes well up. 

It's a BS rule and will never be enfored!  The first person that shows me a case where they DQ someone because their family came out on the course to celebrate with them, I will buy them a steak dinner and beers for the night.

~Mike

2009-03-12 10:40 AM
in reply to: #2013184

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
Rogillio - 2009-03-12 10:26 AM  

It's a BS rule and will never be enfored!  The first person that shows me a case where they DQ someone because their family came out on the course to celebrate with them, I will buy them a steak dinner and beers for the night.

I don't think so, there is a new owner in town and maybe the fact they are announcing this now it is because they ARE planning to enforce the rule. There has been a greater push in recent years by limiting the amount of family members running across the finish line and complaints from competitors and volunteers about this, because it is becoming a problem.

Also anyone who has watched the live feed on an IM have at least seen once inconsiderate competitor’s families getting on the way of other athletes or even very close calls (someone dropping a child, tripping with one. etc.) Anyway, are you suggesting that people should just ignore the rule even if it is been enforced so they can celebrate in any way they want because it is heart warming for some? (Don’t want put words on you mouth hence I am asking)

BTW, the pic you keep referring above was taken AFTER the athlete finished, if you read the post he clearly states he finished ALONE and the family was pretty happy and content to share a moment with him after the fact.

2009-03-12 10:55 AM
in reply to: #2013228

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
JorgeM - 2009-03-12 10:40 AM
Rogillio - 2009-03-12 10:26 AM  

It's a BS rule and will never be enfored!  The first person that shows me a case where they DQ someone because their family came out on the course to celebrate with them, I will buy them a steak dinner and beers for the night.

I don't think so, there is a new owner in town and maybe the fact they are announcing this now it is because they ARE planning to enforce the rule. There has been a greater push in recent years by limiting the amount of family members running across the finish line and complaints from competitors and volunteers about this, because it is becoming a problem.

Also anyone who has watched the live feed on an IM have at least seen once inconsiderate competitor’s families getting on the way of other athletes or even very close calls (someone dropping a child, tripping with one. etc.) Anyway, are you suggesting that people should just ignore the rule even if it is been enforced so they can celebrate in any way they want because it is heart warming for some? (Don’t want put words on you mouth hence I am asking)

BTW, the pic you keep referring above was taken AFTER the athlete finished, if you read the post he clearly states he finished ALONE and the family was pretty happy and content to share a moment with him after the fact.

 

I'm not suggesting anyone do anything.  That's not my job.  I'm just offering an opinion.  I think it's a BS rule.  People are gonna do whatever they want to do unless you physically stop it.  I'm a live and let live person.  I don't need rules to protect me or make sure my 'finish photo' is perfect.  If someone wants to roll across the finishline to honor someone, that's fine too.  I don't need a rule that says 'no rolling across the finishline becuase someone might trip over you' to protect me.  I bike thousand of miles a year on the road with 2,000 lb automobiles, I'm not fearful of tripping over a 3 yo at the IM finishline.

If M-dot were serious about this the only way to stop it is post an official in the finishline shoot turning people back.  The reason people do it is becuase THEY SEE OTHER PEOPLE DO IT! and think, "hey, that looks cool.  When mommy comes in, we'll run across with her!"

 

~Mike



Edited by Rogillio 2009-03-12 10:59 AM


2009-03-12 11:00 AM
in reply to: #2013184

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
Rogillio - 2009-03-12 10:26 AM
AM

Then again, I'm a softie for people who get all emotional at the finishline.  There is a woman on my IM video that starts to sob just as she crosses the finishline as she is overwhelmed with emotion.  Every time I watch that video I get a lump in my throat and my eyes well up. 

~Mike

Actually that lady is crying because I ate all the post race food, those are tears of hunger

2009-03-12 11:09 AM
in reply to: #2013299

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
Gaarryy - 2009-03-12 11:00 AM
Rogillio - 2009-03-12 10:26 AM
AM

 

Then again, I'm a softie for people who get all emotional at the finishline.  There is a woman on my IM video that starts to sob just as she crosses the finishline as she is overwhelmed with emotion.  Every time I watch that video I get a lump in my throat and my eyes well up. 

~Mike

Actually that lady is crying because I ate all the post race food, those are tears of hunger

 

Yeah, that's why this year's IM goal for me is "finish before Gary get's in the food line!"

 

~Mike



Edited by Rogillio 2009-03-12 11:09 AM
2009-03-12 11:09 AM
in reply to: #2011663

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs

bryancd - 2009-03-11 2:08 PM If you have any friends or family with you at the end of an Ironman finish you most likely didn't train enough.

Or just have really really really loyal friends.

2009-03-12 11:14 AM
in reply to: #2012542

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
tcovert - 2009-03-12 1:36 AM

crea0029 - 2009-03-11 6:49 PM

Daremo - 2009-03-11 6:12 PM

Can't say I blame them.  Will be nice if they can enforce it.

You can't do it in almost all running races, so why should it be allowed in an IM?  Just because it is longer???

Thank you for making my point!  We don't do it at other races... why this one?



...Because IM participants seem perpetually divided between those for whom it is a race and those for whom it is a rite of passage (or a bucket list item...which is ultimately the same thing). For some, it's a really challenging athletic competition; for others, it's the culmination (and validation) of a journey of personal transformation. Rites of passage--weddings, funerals, bar mitzvahs--attract a crowd of witnesses as a rule, so why would this one be different?

Speaking for myself, I'm not a big fan of family in the finish chute--I mean it would be cool to have my 72 year old dad cross the line with me this summer at Vineman, but I'll find other ways to share the experience with him--but individual opinions aren't going to reconcile these two views of the event. Either the organizers will or won't clean up the finish line...and the only reason they would is going to come down from the good folks in Risk Management. Either it is or it isn't a real exposure. If it isn't seen as a serious liability risk, then they'll just put out policy announcements as a legal fig leaf. If they are actually concerned, you'll see enforcement. I wouldn't bet on the latter, though.


If I had spent a lot of time sorting my own thoughts on this, I doubt I could have written them any better...

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2009-03-13 9:54 AM
in reply to: #2010726

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs

bradword - 2009-03-11 10:10 AM http://ironman.com/mediacenter/pressreleases/new-finish-line-policy... What do you guys think? Good, bad or? I think it's good, but will be hard to enforce.

Actually it will be very easy to enforce. I agree with the new rule (although it's actually just a statement that they are enforcing what has always been the rule). The finish line shenanigans have gotten out of hand the last few years, hopefully they will stick by their word and DQ people who break the rules.



2009-03-13 10:08 AM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
Dream Chaser - 2009-03-11 12:51 PM

And everybody here never goes over the speed limit when driving

Nobody jay walks and we all come to a 100% complete stop at Stop signs. 

I'm sure most of us speed ( I do). We take a chance and should accept the consequences of our actions. In this case, the consequences (which will be much easier to enforce than the speed limit) are a DQ and no official finish. For the record, I do come to a 100% complete stop at every stop sign

2009-03-13 10:15 AM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
Rogillio - 2009-03-12 10:26 AM
Birkierunner - 2009-03-12 8:54 AM

By 'bad press' I'm talking about an article in the local paper "62 year old grandfather of three came hobling to the finishline at 16:50, just 10 minutes before the 17 hr cut-off.  As he approached the finish line, his wife of 40 years ran out to meet him and immediatly WTC DQ'd him and told him he could not finish the race!  Just 15 seconds before crossing the finish line he was DQ'd by those hearless bastreds!  He and his wife broke down in tears at his dreams of becoming an ironman were ripped from him.  His two year of training just went down the tubes...."  bla, bla, bla

 

If I was that guy I'd be super pissed at my wife for getting me DQed.

2009-03-13 10:19 AM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
jldicarlo - 2009-03-11 11:59 AM
Rogillio - 2009-03-11 9:49 AM

They annouced this rule at both of the IMs I did.  Didn't change a thing.  At the pre-race rules review they talked about this almost toungue-in-cheek as if to say 'these are the official rules but we're not going to enforce it...just be careful'.  At least that's the message I got.

I've not seen too many family members cross along with KQers.  Usually the family members go across with the BOPers.  I say let them get out there and cross with their loved ones.  They paid $500 for the experience and if they want to share the finishline crossing with their family, let 'em.  But that's just me....I'm easy....I ain't cheap...but I am easy.

I never can find anyone that wanted to hug me when I'm dripping with sweat and smelling like I just s/b/r 140.6 miles!

~Mike

See, where I disagree with this is....they are potentially ruining another athlete's finish line experience.

I did my first IM at AZ in November.  I was VERY surprised towards the end how important it became to me to have the finish chute to myself.  There were so many people around me all the time that I didn't think it was going to happen.  Then magically about a quarter mile from the finish I found myself...alone.  I turned the corner and there was NO ONE ahead of me...I looked behind me and NO ONE there either.  I was SO stoked.  The finish line is important to people.

I would hate for someone's finish line experience to be less than what they wanted because some dude's family ahead of him couldn't get out of the way.  You can't blame another ATHLETE who gets in the way...you both are racing.  But I would be pizzed if someone's family was in my way.

X2.......no need jeopordize someone elses experience.

2009-03-13 10:34 AM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
Bender - 2009-03-13 10:08 AM
Dream Chaser - 2009-03-11 12:51 PM

And everybody here never goes over the speed limit when driving

Nobody jay walks and we all come to a 100% complete stop at Stop signs. 

I'm sure most of us speed ( I do). We take a chance and should accept the consequences of our actions. In this case, the consequences (which will be much easier to enforce than the speed limit) are a DQ and no official finish. For the record, I do come to a 100% complete stop at every stop sign

Exactly. After accepting the consequenses for these actions (3 speeding tickets and one rolling through a stop sign in the span of one year), I DO NOT speed anymore, and always come to a complete stop at every stop sign. I learned my lesson, that's for sure. I drive like a granny now, but I'm not getting ticketed anymore, either.

Maybe it will take a few "tickets" - or consequenses (DQ) - for people to follow the rules.

 

2009-03-13 10:39 AM
in reply to: #2010726

Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
Hehe, this same argument has erupted on the Yahoo group for my triathlon team. Very funny to read - exact same arguments coming up all over the place. My tri team has some super-fasties, but since it IS a very all-inclusive and supportive group of varying ability, a lot of people are feeling the "let everyone and their mom/dad/kid/grandpa/dog/goldsfish cross the finish line" vibe.


2009-03-13 10:42 AM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
Rogillio - 2009-03-12 10:55 AM

I'm not suggesting anyone do anything.  That's not my job.  I'm just offering an opinion.  I think it's a BS rule.  People are gonna do whatever they want to do unless you physically stop it.  I'm a live and let live person.  I don't need rules to protect me or make sure my 'finish photo' is perfect.  If someone wants to roll across the finishline to honor someone, that's fine too.  I don't need a rule that says 'no rolling across the finishline becuase someone might trip over you' to protect me.  I bike thousand of miles a year on the road with 2,000 lb automobiles, I'm not fearful of tripping over a 3 yo at the IM finishline.

If M-dot were serious about this the only way to stop it is post an official in the finishline shoot turning people back.  The reason people do it is becuase THEY SEE OTHER PEOPLE DO IT! and think, "hey, that looks cool.  When mommy comes in, we'll run across with her!"

~Mike

now I get, now it is much easier for me to understand why some people choose to cheat and break the rules; I always thought it was just lack of respect for fellow racers but now I see it is all about "I'll do what's best for me" mentality, and that justifies it. Anyway, I'll guess we will find out in a few months how serious the new owners of WTC are about enforcing the rule or not. At least they took the 1st step.
2009-03-13 10:47 AM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs

bryancd - 2009-03-11 4:08 PM If you have any friends or family with you at the end of an Ironman finish you most likely didn't train enough.

HAHA  Exactly my thoughts!

 

2009-03-13 11:52 AM
in reply to: #2010726

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
So does this mean Dick Hoyt is going to be DQ'd?

Normally, I'm a scrooge, but I think people are freaking nuts about this one. Who cares? Are you jealous that the dude has a family, kids, etc. Frankly, if I ran an IM (won't happen), and they DQ'd me because I crossed with my two kids it would be worth it to me!!! I'd have a photo to treasure forever, and a great story to go along with it. I'd frame the photo and the DQ in the same frame.

I was once fined for taking a picture with my wife in my uniform during my playing days...I still have the photo, and it was worth the $50.

Care about something that matters.

Had to edit about the comment above...that's funny and probably true...I only see my wife before we go to bed (we both train hard).

Edited by aggiecatcher 2009-03-13 11:56 AM
2009-03-13 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
JorgeM - 2009-03-13 10:42 AM
Rogillio - 2009-03-12 10:55 AM

I'm not suggesting anyone do anything.  That's not my job.  I'm just offering an opinion.  I think it's a BS rule.  People are gonna do whatever they want to do unless you physically stop it.  I'm a live and let live person.  I don't need rules to protect me or make sure my 'finish photo' is perfect.  If someone wants to roll across the finishline to honor someone, that's fine too.  I don't need a rule that says 'no rolling across the finishline becuase someone might trip over you' to protect me.  I bike thousand of miles a year on the road with 2,000 lb automobiles, I'm not fearful of tripping over a 3 yo at the IM finishline.

If M-dot were serious about this the only way to stop it is post an official in the finishline shoot turning people back.  The reason people do it is becuase THEY SEE OTHER PEOPLE DO IT! and think, "hey, that looks cool.  When mommy comes in, we'll run across with her!"

~Mike

now I get, now it is much easier for me to understand why some people choose to cheat and break the rules; I always thought it was just lack of respect for fellow racers but now I see it is all about "I'll do what's best for me" mentality, and that justifies it. Anyway, I'll guess we will find out in a few months how serious the new owners of WTC are about enforcing the rule or not. At least they took the 1st step.

 

Choose to cheat?  Oh get over it man with this self-rightesouness!  Cheating?  Are you kidding me?  Now this is cheating?  LOL  Wow, I hope I never take life that seriously.  My goodness! 

Like the previous poster said, worry about something that matters.  Who the hail cares if someone wants to have some fun at the finishline.  You don't see sub-12 hr finishers doing this...it's the back-of-packers...so it's not gonna impact anyone's AG qual.  If you are concerned about "your finish photo" speed up or slow down and get a picture-perfect-you-crossing-the-finishline-with-arms-riased-up-and-15:45-on-the-clock-over-your-head to impress all your friends!

 

~Mike

2009-03-13 1:38 PM
in reply to: #2010726

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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
cheat (chet) Pronunciation Key
v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats
To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.

...Clearly some people need to be reminded of the definition. If WTC makes a rule, if you violate it, you are cheating regardless of how anyone might "feel" about the rule. Curious how those that think the rule is dumb feel perfectly justified in their view and have no regard for those with the opposite view.


2009-03-13 1:41 PM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
Rogillio - 2009-03-13 1:24 PM

Choose to cheat?  Oh get over it man with this self-rightesouness!  Cheating?  Are you kidding me?  Now this is cheating?  LOL  Wow, I hope I never take life that seriously.  My goodness! 

Aaaaaah the inherrent question of what "matters" to one person over another. The eternal BT debate!

Fact: some things matter more to me than to you, or to the next person. How about we all "get over" that?!

Grrrr.

And yes, you are "choosing to cheat" if you knowingly break the rules. End of story! How you justify it in your own mind is personal I suppose.

 



Edited by lisac957 2009-03-13 1:42 PM
2009-03-13 1:46 PM
in reply to: #2016197

Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs
lisac957 - 2009-03-13 2:41 PM
Rogillio - 2009-03-13 1:24 PM

Choose to cheat?  Oh get over it man with this self-rightesouness!  Cheating?  Are you kidding me?  Now this is cheating?  LOL  Wow, I hope I never take life that seriously.  My goodness! 

Aaaaaah the inherrent question of what "matters" to one person over another. The eternal BT debate!

Fact: some things matter more to me than to you, or to the next person. How about we all "get over" that?!

Grrrr.

x2. Who says it "doesn't affect" the BOPers. Maybe one of those BOPers wanted to break 14 hours and some numbnuts carrying his baby and his grandma across the finish line gets in the way. You know how anal retentive we all are about numbers and times - even if you, Rogillio, think it "doesn't matter", it MIGHT to that person. Maybe their goal was 13:59:59 and some kids getting in the way screwed that up. That matters to that person. While I appreciate your cavalier attitude about triathlon and how it should be fun and not stressful, etc, I also respect the fact that some people in this sport are actually competing - and whatever that means to them, whether it's winning their AG or beating a certain time, and to have that wrecked by some idiot who didn't follow the rules, that's not cool. I am not fast, but I do respect my fellow athletes and since I don't know what their individual goals might be, I'm sure as hell gonna do all I can, aside from finishing ahead of them of course, NOT to f*ck up their race.

2009-03-13 1:55 PM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs

x2. Who says it "doesn't affect" the BOPers. Maybe one of those BOPers wanted to break 14 hours and some numbnuts carrying his baby and his grandma across the finish line gets in the way. You know how anal retentive we all are about numbers and times - even if you, Rogillio, think it "doesn't matter", it MIGHT to that person. Maybe their goal was 13:59:59 and some kids getting in the way screwed that up. That matters to that person. While I appreciate your cavalier attitude about triathlon and how it should be fun and not stressful, etc, I also respect the fact that some people in this sport are actually competing - and whatever that means to them, whether it's winning their AG or beating a certain time, and to have that wrecked by some idiot who didn't follow the rules, that's not cool. I am not fast, but I do respect my fellow athletes and since I don't know what their individual goals might be, I'm sure as hell gonna do all I can, aside from finishing ahead of them of course, NOT to f*ck up their race.

Not to mention that is is possible that there are folks from older age groups who may be trying to qualify for Kona in 14+ hours.

 

2009-03-13 1:56 PM
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Subject: RE: No finish line friends at IM and HIMs

aggiecatcher that cracked me up!

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