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2009-08-25 12:09 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
jcbolton - 2009-08-25 11:34 AM MOP'er here, so I'm not a part of either group I guess.  And I hope I don't get ostracized for these comments....

I think it might have something to do with the label of "triathlete".  This is a label alot of people take great pride in.  So much pride that people get a tattoo indicating they are an "Ironman".  Guilty as charged.

So I'm also guilty of being upset when I see people out on the course who aren't competing.  It frustrates me to see people out on the course who are out there like it's their Sunday morning walk to the mailbox, or like riding a cruiser with their kids.  The definition of a race is a competition of speed.  The key words I believe here are competition and speed.  I cannot see the reason in paying as much as triathlons cost, only to go out and not compete.  Why not just just swim, bike, and run on your own time, without the race aspect, if your goal is just to swim, bike, and run while not competing?  I still think you are a triathlete.  And you've still accomplished your goal, with some extra money in your pocket!

I know I shouldn't care about these people.  To each, his own.  If that's what they want to do, I guess that's fine.  It's not physically affecting me any.  It's not like I hate these people; I'm just confused and don't understand.

But back to the label.  It still bothers me when a non-triathlete puts me in the same class as these people.  Sounds like I suffer from pride issues....

Or maybe the BOP'ers are going as hard as they can, and it's just my perception that they are casually going through the motions...


I said this in the other thread, but it's not a news flash that each person has different goals and aspirations. Why is that so hard to understand? I might be using my next 70.3 as a training race, what's it to you? Who are you to judge my intentions or goals?

I see you kind of back-tracked on your final sentence, but again... who is anyone to judge someones effort? You have NO IDEA what they are feeling, if they are injured, cramping, nauseous, what they have overcome to be there, etc. It is their right to go at whatever pace they choose. Again... what's it to you? Except that you've said it bothers you when you're put in the same "class" as these people. That's exactly the attitude that created these threads in the first place.

 


2009-08-25 12:09 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
Well, some of those efforts that seem casual might be very tough for them.

Definitely agree, and I don't want to dismiss this.  I too remember what it was like having to walk after only running for no more than 2 minutes.
2009-08-25 12:11 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
jcbolton - 2009-08-25 12:09 PM

Well, some of those efforts that seem casual might be very tough for them.

Definitely agree, and I don't want to dismiss this.  I too remember what it was like having to walk after only running for no more than 2 minutes.


I think at the end of the day... we can all be better people and triathletes on the course, if we can always remember where we came from.

We all started somewhere... some of us started off better than others... but we all had to grow and improve.

2009-08-25 12:12 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????

tcovert - 2009-08-25 11:37 AM
Rogillio - 2009-08-25 8:05 AM

I think FOP/MOP/BOP issues and discussion/debate reflect very real and heart-felt opinions.  This site calls itself "Beginner" triathlon but I think that is misleading as we have beginners thru almost-professionals.  I've been doing triathlons for 12 years but I still put myself in the beginer category becuase I'm a BOPer.  This is probably wrong thinking but when I see guys going sub-10 hrs in their IM, I'm like "Good Lord, I'm not even in the same league with these guys!"  So maybe there is a little inferiority complex.  ;-)

Anyway, my view from the BOP is that the FOP think that BOPers WANT to become FOPers.  I have seen this is so many thread!  Many people here assume that we are all trying to get faster and we are all trying to win.  The worst people about  this are the ones that say "...when I was a beginner, I was BOP too but now I'm winning my AG..." because they think that every BOPer should aspire to the same thing.

Well, like the last dog in the dog-sled team said, "The view from the BOP is always the same....nothing but asholes infront of me!"   j/k

 

~Mike



Haven't read the whole thread yet, but the bolded comment jumped out at me...

So you don't want to get faster, Mike?  Serious question.  And I'm not saying that your expectation (or anyone's) is that each and every race will be faster than all races before it (unrealistic, to say the least).  Just...really?  Why spend the money on race fees, then?  Why not just exercise?  Millions of people workout without ever entering a race.  I'm not saying this to be provocative, but want to be able to take what you say as literally true and not--in itself--a sort of devil's advocacy (conscious or unconscious).  I'll cop here to being a bit skeptical of people who say they never have time goals.

But I want to point to something in Mike's comment that I think often becomes an issue in the sorts of threads Rick is reacting to (and I was thinking about on the drive home from the pool this morning, as it so happens):  The equating in the part I have bolded above of a goal of "getting faster" with "winning" (note "and" winning in the wording, not "or").  This seems to be a trigger in some threads:  The assumption that having a time (or other) goal beyond finishing the race implies something like "racing to win."  I race to finish the best I can on any given day, but I have no illusions of winning.  So I suspect there's a bit of a false division into "FOP" (people who can win) and "everyone else" (those who are showing up to finish).  In my experience, there's a much broader continuum that includes a lot of people with multiple goals.

And there's the assumption in Mike's comment that anyone who comments on their progress from BOP to AG winner must think others automatically aspire to the same thing.  That--IMO--is nothing more than projection.  There's usually nothing in anyone's words when they post about an achievement like that which directly or indirectly implies anything about other's motivations...only about what may be possible for others who might have aspirations and are struggling if they stick with their training.

I think, and I hear it in Rick's OP, that there is a fair amount of this projection onto people who post about their achievements or their goals, i.e., that in posting they are asserting that everyone else operates from the same perspective they do.  I can't say that I ever get that from the "FOP" folks.  What I do get is an explicit assertion at times that no one should aspire to anything beyond finishing.  That has been said in so many words more than once on this board...a recent example was a poster who said (in so many words) that everyone should find the IM distance "scary".  So, at the least, I think it's fair to say there are plenty of examples of supposed "BOP" folks mapping their insecurities (or "inferiority complex" if you want to use Mike's words) onto everyone else.

Sorry to ramble, but there have been--as Rick noted--a lot of these sorts of threads and similar dynamics in most of them, so it's been on my mind as well.

 

Why is that so hard to understand Todd?  You ask why not just exercise?  LOL  OK, pull up  a seat and I'll tell you a little bit about this old BOPer....

I'm 6'3" and was 293 lbs this past Sunday at my last triathlon.  I haven't always been this heavy but  I've always been tall.  When I was a kid in school and we'd chose up side, I'd often get picked first because people ASSUME that, becuase I was big/tall, I must be good in basketball or football or whatever.  But I sucked at backetball.  I sucked at football.  I can't hit a dam slow pitch softball much less a fast pitch baseball!  So participation is sports was non-existant.  I didn't play ANY organized sports in grade school, jr high, high school or college.  Nothing! 

Years later I found myself at a slow pitch softball game with the guys from work.  I showed up to drink beers aftwards but they expected me to play ball first.  I stuckout at my first at-bat and someone laughed and said I 'threw like a girl'.  OK, this was a mistake, I'm never doing this again!

Then when I was 33 years old I was in the gym lifting weights and walking on the treadmill.  A good friend encouraged me to run on the treadmill and said there was a 5k at the airport on the runway that many poeple did for a PR since it was such a flat/easy course.  So I set a goal of running 3 miles.  I trained for months on the TM - never once getting out on the road.  Finally race day came and I ran my heart out.  It nearly killed me but I ran the entire 3.1 miles.  I don't know what my time was and didn't care, my goal was simply to run the whole thing and not have to walk.

About a month after that I saw a flyer in the gym for a sprint triathlon...the Rocketman.  It was a triathlon!  OMG!  I had heard about triathlons...I thought they only did that in Hawaii.  I had no idea they had shorter ones.  It had a 5k run and I was confident I could do that since I'd just run a 5k.  Bike ride of 12 miles didn't sound to hard - I'd been riding a bike since I was kid!  The swim had me a little concerned but I grew up around the water and swimming came easy.

And so I became Rocketman.  I did the Rocketman every year for the next 5 years.  I loved the Rocketman becuae I had finally be able to participate in a sport and not have to feel bad about letting my teammate down becuse I had no athletic talent and sucked at all sports. 

I still can't hit a baseball and can't make a free though to save my life but I do triathlons.  I love to run.  I love to bike.  I love to swim.  And I'm finally able to participate in a real sport.  Yeah, I still suck at it but that's ok.  When people see IMKY poster on my wall and asked if I did that, I just nod.  They don't ask "how fast" or "what place did you come in" and I don't volunteer those. 

So for me, it is about the participation not the podium.  I don't care if I ever get faster.  If I busted my arse the best I would ever be would be a MOPer.  I don't swim intervals or use buoys or paddles.  I just jump in and swim and enjoy being one with the wate.  I don't run intervals or do speed work or hill work or repeats.  I just go out on the road and run and enjoy being outside in the fresh air in this beautiful world we live in.  When I ride, I just get on my bike and ride.  Sometimes I weave between the reflectors on the road like I used to do when I was a kid.  And maybe once or twice a year I'll show up at a race with real athletes and act like I belong in their club.

~Mike

2009-08-25 12:13 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
That's exactly the attitude that created these threads in the first place.

Also agreed.  I also indicated that it is likely I am the one with the pride issue.
2009-08-25 12:21 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
lisac957 - 2009-08-25 1:09 PM
jcbolton - 2009-08-25 11:34 AM MOP'er here, so I'm not a part of either group I guess.  And I hope I don't get ostracized for these comments....

I think it might have something to do with the label of "triathlete".  This is a label alot of people take great pride in.  So much pride that people get a tattoo indicating they are an "Ironman".  Guilty as charged.

So I'm also guilty of being upset when I see people out on the course who aren't competing.  It frustrates me to see people out on the course who are out there like it's their Sunday morning walk to the mailbox, or like riding a cruiser with their kids.  The definition of a race is a competition of speed.  The key words I believe here are competition and speed.  I cannot see the reason in paying as much as triathlons cost, only to go out and not compete.  Why not just just swim, bike, and run on your own time, without the race aspect, if your goal is just to swim, bike, and run while not competing?  I still think you are a triathlete.  And you've still accomplished your goal, with some extra money in your pocket!

I know I shouldn't care about these people.  To each, his own.  If that's what they want to do, I guess that's fine.  It's not physically affecting me any.  It's not like I hate these people; I'm just confused and don't understand.

But back to the label.  It still bothers me when a non-triathlete puts me in the same class as these people.  Sounds like I suffer from pride issues....

Or maybe the BOP'ers are going as hard as they can, and it's just my perception that they are casually going through the motions...


I said this in the other thread, but it's not a news flash that each person has different goals and aspirations. Why is that so hard to understand? I might be using my next 70.3 as a training race, what's it to you? Who are you to judge my intentions or goals?

I see you kind of back-tracked on your final sentence, but again... who is anyone to judge someones effort? You have NO IDEA what they are feeling, if they are injured, cramping, nauseous, what they have overcome to be there, etc. It is their right to go at whatever pace they choose. Again... what's it to you? Except that you've said it bothers you when you're put in the same "class" as these people. That's exactly the attitude that created these threads in the first place.

 


He didn't judge.  He said he's "confused and [doesn't] understand."  Perhaps the fact that he lets it bother him shows some insecurities or something.  But you appear to have imposed his feelings as a judgement.  And that's exactly the attitude that created these threads in the first place.


2009-08-25 12:22 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
I guess I have to throw my 2 cents in as well...I think a major road block here is most people have either always been FOPers or BOPers.  From someone who was the short fat kid in school, to the guy scoring 300 on his army PT test, to the fat 30 year old, to the guy I am today who is trying to get back in shape I can tell you there are @$$holes in each group but they are a SMALL percentage.  When you are at the FOP what may be taken as elitism or failure to acknowledge others is you just trying to get in the mindset to do what you have to do to finish where you want to finish.  The last thing you are thinking of is I wonder how that BOPer perceives me.  When I used to run my 6 min miles I would finish my run and go back to the course to root others on...why?  Because I had been, and I am again, in their shoes.  I don't buy in to this crap that there is automatically animosity between finishers..nope, no way.  I have only competed in 2 tris thus far but I have seen way to many FOPers root people on after they have finished.  I have seen a DFL person come in off of the bike an hour after the next person in a sprint but had a line of people cheering for her.  In my opinion 99% of the tri people I have met do not wish ill will on anyone else.....this is one of the reasons I have taken up the sport.  Will I ever podium?  Doubt it.  Will it stop me from trying?  NO WAY!!! 
2009-08-25 12:28 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????

The only elite triathlete I've had an encounter with showed me that there are some cool people in this sport.  A short distance out of T2 at the Oceanside 70.3 this past spring, I saw that the men's pro winner was running directly towards me as he approached the finish.  He had a good lead and was looking pretty celebratory with the crowd lining the street, so I reached up to high five him on the way by.  He did the same, but unfortunately we missed because I was running so fast .  Still, I can't imagine another sport where a pro champion and a weekend warrior could interact like that.

Now, I might occasionally kid one of the FOP posters around here about being so fast, but it's all in good spirit.  It's a big roof around here that accommodates people from every corner of this sport.  Mostly people are nice to each other.  Sometimes not, but that's the internet for you.

2009-08-25 12:32 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
Ya know, if we were all sitting around having a beer after a race, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. 
2009-08-25 12:33 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
ah.....beer 
2009-08-25 12:35 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????

ChrisM - 2009-08-25 12:32 PM Ya know, if we were all sitting around having a beer after a race, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. 

 

Yeah, we'd all be admiring Bryan's gold medal. 

Just a joke Bryan...contraray to what you think, I have a great deal of respect of you FOPers.  I have a great deal of respect for BOPers too....but for different reasons.

 

~Mike



Edited by Rogillio 2009-08-25 12:37 PM


2009-08-25 12:35 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
jcbolton - 2009-08-25 12:13 PM
That's exactly the attitude that created these threads in the first place.

Also agreed.  I also indicated that it is likely I am the one with the pride issue.



But Clint you have come a long way since you started,, and I"m sure I"m bias since I know you,  I can't remember ever seeing you be rude to someone at races... While you are racing you are going hard enough that you can't speak,, but after you finish you are one of the nicer people to be around... 

<excluding Jonny and I of course..> 

I think all guys struggle with pride, I'd be willing to bet that since you have made such great strides that you are thinking of the potential of others ...
2009-08-25 12:36 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
ChrisM - 2009-08-25 12:32 PM Ya know, if we were all sitting around having a beer after a race, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. 


Nah it be fart jokes, anchorman quotes and trying to not to be too obvious as we stare at the women
2009-08-25 12:38 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????

Gaarryy - 2009-08-25 12:36 PM
ChrisM - 2009-08-25 12:32 PM Ya know, if we were all sitting around having a beer after a race, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. 


Nah it be fart jokes, anchorman quotes and trying to not to be too obvious as we stare at the women

 

You need a date brother!

 

~Mike

2009-08-25 12:38 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
Rogillio - 2009-08-25 10:35 AM

ChrisM - 2009-08-25 12:32 PM Ya know, if we were all sitting around having a beer after a race, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. 

 

Yeah, we'd all be admiring Byran's gold medal. 

Just a joke Byran...contraray to what you think, I have a great deal of respect of you FOPers.  I have a great deal of respect for BOPers too....but for different reasons.

 

~Mike



Honestly, though...  I've done races where friends of mine win the whole friggin thing.  I've never done a race where a training partner or friend has not been on the podium.  After the race, none of us care.  As you put so well in your post Mike, everyone is out there enjoying participating.  Whether that means just doing it, or winning it, or PR'ing it...  
2009-08-25 12:39 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
Gaarryy - 2009-08-25 10:36 AM
ChrisM - 2009-08-25 12:32 PM Ya know, if we were all sitting around having a beer after a race, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. 


Nah it be fart jokes, anchorman quotes and trying to not to be too obvious as we stare at the women


Impossible (especially at tris).  I'm human, not a machine


2009-08-25 12:43 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
Since nobody saw fit to second my vote to table the discussion I have concluded that we should drop the endurance discussion about BOP, MOP, FOP and round up the disgruntled, don some 8oz gloves, close the cage door and see who runs the fastest after fifteen minutes of MMA fighting... yes you have to transition with your gloves on!  If you submit or knock out your opponent prior the fifteen minute period conclusion then you may begin your run without your opponent.

and in this corner...
2009-08-25 12:46 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
Rogillio - 2009-08-25 1:12 PM

Why is that so hard to understand Todd?  You ask why not just exercise?  LOL  OK, pull up  a seat and I'll tell you a little bit about this old BOPer....

I'm 6'3" and was 293 lbs this past Sunday at my last triathlon.  I haven't always been this heavy but  I've always been tall.  When I was a kid in school and we'd chose up side, I'd often get picked first because people ASSUME that, becuase I was big/tall, I must be good in basketball or football or whatever.  But I sucked at backetball.  I sucked at football.  I can't hit a dam slow pitch softball much less a fast pitch baseball!  So participation is sports was non-existant.  I didn't play ANY organized sports in grade school, jr high, high school or college.  Nothing! 

Years later I found myself at a slow pitch softball game with the guys from work.  I showed up to drink beers aftwards but they expected me to play ball first.  I stuckout at my first at-bat and someone laughed and said I 'threw like a girl'.  OK, this was a mistake, I'm never doing this again!

Then when I was 33 years old I was in the gym lifting weights and walking on the treadmill.  A good friend encouraged me to run on the treadmill and said there was a 5k at the airport on the runway that many poeple did for a PR since it was such a flat/easy course.  So I set a goal of running 3 miles.  I trained for months on the TM - never once getting out on the road.  Finally race day came and I ran my heart out.  It nearly killed me but I ran the entire 3.1 miles.  I don't know what my time was and didn't care, my goal was simply to run the whole thing and not have to walk.

About a month after that I saw a flyer in the gym for a sprint triathlon...the Rocketman.  It was a triathlon!  OMG!  I had heard about triathlons...I thought they only did that in Hawaii.  I had no idea they had shorter ones.  It had a 5k run and I was confident I could do that since I'd just run a 5k.  Bike ride of 12 miles didn't sound to hard - I'd been riding a bike since I was kid!  The swim had me a little concerned but I grew up around the water and swimming came easy.

And so I became Rocketman.  I did the Rocketman every year for the next 5 years.  I loved the Rocketman becuae I had finally be able to participate in a sport and not have to feel bad about letting my teammate down becuse I had no athletic talent and sucked at all sports. 

I still can't hit a baseball and can't make a free though to save my life but I do triathlons.  I love to run.  I love to bike.  I love to swim.  And I'm finally able to participate in a real sport.  Yeah, I still suck at it but that's ok.  When people see IMKY poster on my wall and asked if I did that, I just nod.  They don't ask "how fast" or "what place did you come in" and I don't volunteer those. 

So for me, it is about the participation not the podium.  I don't care if I ever get faster.  If I busted my arse the best I would ever be would be a MOPer.  I don't swim intervals or use buoys or paddles.  I just jump in and swim and enjoy being one with the wate.  I don't run intervals or do speed work or hill work or repeats.  I just go out on the road and run and enjoy being outside in the fresh air in this beautiful world we live in.  When I ride, I just get on my bike and ride.  Sometimes I weave between the reflectors on the road like I used to do when I was a kid.  And maybe once or twice a year I'll show up at a race with real athletes and act like I belong in their club.

~Mike



Mike,

Thanks for sharing!  I read that with great interest.  But in the spirit of the thead, I disagree with the bolded above.  You do belong now get your gimpy butt to Lousiville.  I'll buy the first round!
2009-08-25 12:46 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
jcbolton - 2009-08-25 11:34 AM MOP'er here, so I'm not a part of either group I guess.  And I hope I don't get ostracized for these comments....

I think it might have something to do with the label of "triathlete".  This is a label alot of people take great pride in.  So much pride that people get a tattoo indicating they are an "Ironman".  Guilty as charged.

So I'm also guilty of being upset when I see people out on the course who aren't competing.  It frustrates me to see people out on the course who are out there like it's their Sunday morning walk to the mailbox, or like riding a cruiser with their kids.  The definition of a race is a competition of speed.  The key words I believe here are competition and speed.  I cannot see the reason in paying as much as triathlons cost, only to go out and not compete.  Why not just just swim, bike, and run on your own time, without the race aspect, if your goal is just to swim, bike, and run while not competing?  I still think you are a triathlete.  And you've still accomplished your goal, with some extra money in your pocket!

I know I shouldn't care about these people.  To each, his own.  If that's what they want to do, I guess that's fine.  It's not physically affecting me any.  It's not like I hate these people; I'm just confused and don't understand.

But back to the label.  It still bothers me when a non-triathlete puts me in the same class as these people.  Sounds like I suffer from pride issues....

Or maybe the BOP'ers are going as hard as they can, and it's just my perception that they are casually going through the motions...


Exactly. In MHOP, this is the big problem. Everyone is trying to understand why people do what they do. Really we shouldn't try to understand, we should just race our race. You know why you do these and I know why I do them. Unless you are going to spend some considerable time learning about that person, you will never know. I am not trying to call you out or anything, just giving an opinion after reading 5 pages of this. That to me is why triathlon is so great. Everyone has their reasons for doing this stuff. For some it is to be as fast as possible, for some it is because they love to swim, bike, and run. (Nice post by the way Mike).  For some it does get easier, for some they constantly push as hard as possible so it doesn't. Type A can't understand type B.  We all show up on race day and do what we do for our own reasons.  I am one of the people who love to watch the Ironman coverage and hear all the stories about people overcoming obstacles to do these races. It inspires and motivates me. That's me though, you don't have to understand why it motivates me. I also shake my head in disbelief at a 4 hour and 18 minute bike split!! That motivates me too.  I have had nothing but good experiences at every tri I've done, and on here.  I am the type of person though, that believes everyone is entitled to their opinion, I may not understand it, I may question it, but I won't try to get you to change it.  I just race my race Smile 
2009-08-25 12:47 PM
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
JohnnyKay - 2009-08-25 12:21 PM
lisac957 - 2009-08-25 1:09 PM
jcbolton - 2009-08-25 11:34 AM MOP'er here, so I'm not a part of either group I guess.  And I hope I don't get ostracized for these comments....

I think it might have something to do with the label of "triathlete".  This is a label alot of people take great pride in.  So much pride that people get a tattoo indicating they are an "Ironman".  Guilty as charged.

So I'm also guilty of being upset when I see people out on the course who aren't competing.  It frustrates me to see people out on the course who are out there like it's their Sunday morning walk to the mailbox, or like riding a cruiser with their kids.  The definition of a race is a competition of speed.  The key words I believe here are competition and speed.  I cannot see the reason in paying as much as triathlons cost, only to go out and not compete.  Why not just just swim, bike, and run on your own time, without the race aspect, if your goal is just to swim, bike, and run while not competing?  I still think you are a triathlete.  And you've still accomplished your goal, with some extra money in your pocket!

I know I shouldn't care about these people.  To each, his own.  If that's what they want to do, I guess that's fine.  It's not physically affecting me any.  It's not like I hate these people; I'm just confused and don't understand.

But back to the label.  It still bothers me when a non-triathlete puts me in the same class as these people.  Sounds like I suffer from pride issues....

Or maybe the BOP'ers are going as hard as they can, and it's just my perception that they are casually going through the motions...


I said this in the other thread, but it's not a news flash that each person has different goals and aspirations. Why is that so hard to understand? I might be using my next 70.3 as a training race, what's it to you? Who are you to judge my intentions or goals?

I see you kind of back-tracked on your final sentence, but again... who is anyone to judge someones effort? You have NO IDEA what they are feeling, if they are injured, cramping, nauseous, what they have overcome to be there, etc. It is their right to go at whatever pace they choose. Again... what's it to you? Except that you've said it bothers you when you're put in the same "class" as these people. That's exactly the attitude that created these threads in the first place.

 


He didn't judge.  He said he's "confused and [doesn't] understand."  Perhaps the fact that he lets it bother him shows some insecurities or something.  But you appear to have imposed his feelings as a judgement.  And that's exactly the attitude that created these threads in the first place.


Sorry, but when someone starts using language like "these people," and diving "these people" into different classes, and expressing a strong desire to not be in the same "class" as "those people"... it's hard to not interpret that as anything but a judgement.

2009-08-25 12:50 PM
in reply to: #2369610

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Champion
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Philly 'burbs
Subject: RE: So why is it????
lisac957 - 2009-08-25 1:47 PM
JohnnyKay - 2009-08-25 12:21 PM
lisac957 - 2009-08-25 1:09 PM
jcbolton - 2009-08-25 11:34 AM MOP'er here, so I'm not a part of either group I guess.  And I hope I don't get ostracized for these comments....

I think it might have something to do with the label of "triathlete".  This is a label alot of people take great pride in.  So much pride that people get a tattoo indicating they are an "Ironman".  Guilty as charged.

So I'm also guilty of being upset when I see people out on the course who aren't competing.  It frustrates me to see people out on the course who are out there like it's their Sunday morning walk to the mailbox, or like riding a cruiser with their kids.  The definition of a race is a competition of speed.  The key words I believe here are competition and speed.  I cannot see the reason in paying as much as triathlons cost, only to go out and not compete.  Why not just just swim, bike, and run on your own time, without the race aspect, if your goal is just to swim, bike, and run while not competing?  I still think you are a triathlete.  And you've still accomplished your goal, with some extra money in your pocket!

I know I shouldn't care about these people.  To each, his own.  If that's what they want to do, I guess that's fine.  It's not physically affecting me any.  It's not like I hate these people; I'm just confused and don't understand.

But back to the label.  It still bothers me when a non-triathlete puts me in the same class as these people.  Sounds like I suffer from pride issues....

Or maybe the BOP'ers are going as hard as they can, and it's just my perception that they are casually going through the motions...


I said this in the other thread, but it's not a news flash that each person has different goals and aspirations. Why is that so hard to understand? I might be using my next 70.3 as a training race, what's it to you? Who are you to judge my intentions or goals?

I see you kind of back-tracked on your final sentence, but again... who is anyone to judge someones effort? You have NO IDEA what they are feeling, if they are injured, cramping, nauseous, what they have overcome to be there, etc. It is their right to go at whatever pace they choose. Again... what's it to you? Except that you've said it bothers you when you're put in the same "class" as these people. That's exactly the attitude that created these threads in the first place.

 


He didn't judge.  He said he's "confused and [doesn't] understand."  Perhaps the fact that he lets it bother him shows some insecurities or something.  But you appear to have imposed his feelings as a judgement.  And that's exactly the attitude that created these threads in the first place.


Sorry, but when someone starts using language like "these people," and diving "these people" into different classes, and expressing a strong desire to not be in the same "class" as "those people"... it's hard to not interpret that as anything but a judgement.




Who are these people???









2009-08-25 1:05 PM
in reply to: #2368971

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Elite
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Subject: RE: So why is it????

Interesting discussion

2009-08-25 1:07 PM
in reply to: #2369620

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Champion
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Subject: RE: So why is it????

I think it's too funny that we are so easily putting people into these buckets based on their position in "the pack."  When I race, I pretty much do the same thing. I swim about 2:20/100 yd, bike about 18.5 mph, and run about 9-10 m/m (depending on distance).   In this year alone I have earned two medals, finished 2nd to last in my AG twice, and had a handful of results smattered in-between.  So, not only am I subject to people misunderstanding my intent on any given race day, I am also like a totally different person depending on which race you meet me at - if you're trying to categorize me. 

There's a competitive race series in the area where I predictably do very poorly on a few races in June and July.   Then I entered the YWCA women's tri in August and finish in the top 15%.   Since there's no way you can say I am FOP, MOP, or BOP, how can any of these assumptions possibly be true?    There could be two people on the BT board right now in Minnesota who see me as two totally different people!   What can you really know?

I try hard to avoid assumptions.  You know what they do, right?

2009-08-25 1:10 PM
in reply to: #2369610

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Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
lisac957 - 2009-08-25 1:47 PM

it's hard to not interpret that as anything but a judgement.



It may be hard, but I believe you should understand this is somebody trying to expess their feelings--often a tricky thing to do.  Your post reads far more like a judgement than his, IMO.
2009-08-25 1:16 PM
in reply to: #2369689

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Alpharetta, Georgia
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Subject: RE: So why is it????
JohnnyKay - 2009-08-25 1:10 PM
lisac957 - 2009-08-25 1:47 PM

it's hard to not interpret that as anything but a judgement.



It may be hard, but I believe you should understand this is somebody trying to expess their feelings--often a tricky thing to do.  Your post reads far more like a judgement than his, IMO.


How, exactly?
All I've said in these threads is that everyone has different goals and aspirations - and that you can't read a book by its cover (ie: why someone is not trying as hard as YOU think they should). I'd think that is something we can all agree on, but apparently not. I'm not the one putting people in buckets or classes.


 
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