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2012-10-23 7:52 AM
in reply to: #4464858

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
acumenjay - 2012-10-23 5:40 AM

Re: Marathon plans.  Agree on the Pfitzinger plan.  If you can handle the load, those plans are very straight forward to follow and they are good.  I know some very fast people who follow those plans and it doesn't over complicate things too much.  The biggest thing is if you can ramp up a bit and handle the 50mpw steady volume for a while.  You could even toss out the speedwork if you need to and just keep it to all good steady volume w/ some tempo finishes on some of them if you are worried about getting hurt.  

I am not sure I can handle that kind of volume.  At my pace that's a lot of hours of running.  Looks like Hal's might be the way to go for me.  I am going to have to plan it out to see if I can get intermediate II into my schedule safely as I would prefer 3 20 milers to 2.  wow, I just wrote that I would rather do 3 20 mile runs.  It's a sickness I tell you.



2012-10-23 7:52 AM
in reply to: #4464843

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
riorio - 2012-10-23 9:27 AM

tasr - 2012-10-23 4:43 AM Fred translating the bike fit from the Slice to the Shiv is specific to what the frame geometry is. If the frame geometry is the same then you will be close. I would get a complete new fit on the Shiv.

x2. I wouldn't mess around with fit, esp if you have any discomfort at all. 

x3, I'd go all new fit if it was easy (from a convenience POV) to do.

2012-10-23 8:14 AM
in reply to: #4433790

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Kim, I think it really matters how many miles per week you're at now. But as you say slower pace requires more time to complete the runs. Then you'll just have to run faster. I think I'm on week 3 of 50mpw. I had a consistent basis of 20 to 30 miles per week for most of the year. It was just a matter of ramping up to 50 miles per week and throwing in the longer runs. I know I could every day at 8-10 miles, but it is the longer runs 18-24 miles that I need. That is my down fall as well. It takes more for me to recover after longer runs. It has gotten better, but yesterdays run hurt. Most likely due to the weekends kettlebell training. Imagine doing squats and cleans for 2 days then running 20 miles. Yes ouch! Tomorrow's run or in fact the rest of the weeks running will be the tell tale sign if I am absorbing these runs.
2012-10-23 8:20 AM
in reply to: #4464872

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Master
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

That's probably wise.  Also, conceptually you get the idea so I don't think that you need to be overly rigid following some of the Higdon stuff as long as your logging consistent miles and basically hitting the volume that you can absorb without injury. 

While we are on the topic, here is  nice free resource I have bookmarked as well.  It's just a short pdf but I like Lydiard.

http://www.fitnesssports.com/lyd_clinic_guide/Arthur%20Lydiard.pdf

2012-10-23 8:22 AM
in reply to: #4433790

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Been offline for the past few days - interesting reading the comments on PED use.

One note to you specifically Fred.  You've been beating guys long before you fully realized how prevalent doping may be in the AG ranks.  I wouldn't let the realization now deter you from still aiming for a KQ spot in the future.  You had a bad day in your last attempt, but if you had been on your game you may very well have earned your spot.  You're never going to be able to control what others do, but if you let it get in your head it's not going to do you any good.

FWIW, every person that beats me, I assume any combination of three things.  1) They had a better day than me, 2)  They were better trained than me, 3)  They are a naturally better athlete than me.  I try my best to control how I can impact 1 & 2.

2012-10-23 8:32 AM
in reply to: #4464920

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

I would be curious to know how the public healthcare system in Canada makes it harder or easier to get prescriptions for 'banned' substances.

It sounds like there can be a financial motivation for docs to prescribe them in the US. Am I wrong ?

I wonder if that motivation exists in Canada because the docs are paid by the gov. A doc cannot charge $xxx for a TRT therapy here.

I wonder if it makes a difference.

I suspect that to get some of these substances in Canada you would have to go through the black market which to me would be really scary.

A tri coach at a local club said he believed it was rampant in the amateur adult cycling world. I wonder where they get this $&^%. Cheating is one thing. Filling your body with unregulated medicine is just crazy.

I suspect a lot of info is going to start sneaking out as testing becomes more prevalent.



2012-10-23 8:56 AM
in reply to: #4464872

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
bzgl40 - 2012-10-23 8:52 AM
acumenjay - 2012-10-23 5:40 AM

Re: Marathon plans.  Agree on the Pfitzinger plan.  If you can handle the load, those plans are very straight forward to follow and they are good.  I know some very fast people who follow those plans and it doesn't over complicate things too much.  The biggest thing is if you can ramp up a bit and handle the 50mpw steady volume for a while.  You could even toss out the speedwork if you need to and just keep it to all good steady volume w/ some tempo finishes on some of them if you are worried about getting hurt.  

I am not sure I can handle that kind of volume.  At my pace that's a lot of hours of running.  Looks like Hal's might be the way to go for me.  I am going to have to plan it out to see if I can get intermediate II into my schedule safely as I would prefer 3 20 milers to 2.  wow, I just wrote that I would rather do 3 20 mile runs.  It's a sickness I tell you.

FWIW, I'm following Pftiz's plan right now, but dialed back a little as I'm training for a half marathon.  Mostly I'm dialing back the longest runs (I don't think that a 20 mile run is necessarily very helpful, for me, to prepare for a half), but I'm also shaving a few miles off of many of the other runs.  (Example -- if he calls for a mid-week 12 mile run, maybe I'll do 10 instead.)  I really like the structure of his plans, so I'm doing things this way rather than just using a different (lower volume) plan.

That said, I will hit 60+mpw at some point (not there yet), so still not 'low volume' by triathlete standards.

Anyway, my long-winded point is that you could adopt the structure of Pfitz's plan but toy around with overall volume.  I would think that the mid-week long run would be the first thing to get rid of -- it's great, but not strictly necessary for marathon prep if you are careful about getting in the other key workouts.  That plus dialing back a bit on a few of the other runs might put it into a range that is comfortable for you.  I wouldn't go too far, though, as you do want your weekly running to be enough to 'support' those 20-mile runs.

2012-10-23 8:59 AM
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2012-10-23 9:06 AM
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2012-10-23 10:13 AM
in reply to: #4465005

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Fred D - 2012-10-23 8:59 AM ... Docs in Canada can pursue revenue outside of the government system and I suspect some do. ..

It seems hard for docs to work outside the public system here. in Quebec, they can but I believe they have to get out of the public system entirely. You are either private or public but not both. So you have to make sure you have enough clientele to maintain a steady revenue stream.

In Ontario there are few areas they can cover both. Cosmetic surgery is one.

But for example, I wanted to find a private endo in Ontario for help with my diabetes and was told I could not.One of these days I will consult a US based Endo because I believe there is stuff I could do.

On a different topic, have you ever see the show "The Doctors" ? I was a guest on the French Canadian Version of the show. I'm a TV star :-)

2012-10-23 11:16 AM
in reply to: #4464730

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
tri808 - 2012-10-23 12:49 AM

Good swim tonight.  Finished the 600y sets as

1x600
2x300
3x200
6x100
12x50

Increased the pace each set and was pretty wasted at the end.

I like this kind of workout because it teaches you pace control.  In an OWS, all you have to go on is RPE, so it's important to have a good feel for how fast you're going.



2012-10-23 11:32 AM
in reply to: #4465338

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
spudone - 2012-10-23 12:16 PM
tri808 - 2012-10-23 12:49 AM

Good swim tonight.  Finished the 600y sets as

1x600
2x300
3x200
6x100
12x50

Increased the pace each set and was pretty wasted at the end.

I like this kind of workout because it teaches you pace control.  In an OWS, all you have to go on is RPE, so it's important to have a good feel for how fast you're going.

I have written this one down and plan to give it a go. Will be much different than my "total aversion" - based solitary, continuous swims.

2012-10-23 11:33 AM
in reply to: #4465005

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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Fred D - 2012-10-23 10:59 AM

I don't think that there is less access in Canada as an elite amateur cyclist was busted for this stuff I believe recently.


Clearly you are mistaken; as was pointed out on ST it is only Americans and Europeans who would stoop to cheating in sports.

While there are 'anti aging' clinics in the USA, I don't know anyone here in state college, pa that is doing this stuff. It's fringe stuff for the docs who aren't in the mainstream fold of medicine IME.


Interestingly I've heard several radio ads recently for anti-aging clinics (maybe only clinic - I don't pay careful attention) in Halifax over the last couple of years and since we're a smaller city, I'm sure the bigger centres have had them for a long time.

Did you happen to read the posts by the anti-aging docs on the ST thread? To me it looked like typical, "big pharma is a big scam to take your money and keep you sick and they surpress the research" tin foil hat stuff but I'm not well read enough in these matters to know for sure.

Shane
2012-10-23 11:51 AM
in reply to: #4465338

Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
spudone - 2012-10-23 6:16 AM
tri808 - 2012-10-23 12:49 AM

Good swim tonight.  Finished the 600y sets as

1x600
2x300
3x200
6x100
12x50

Increased the pace each set and was pretty wasted at the end.

I like this kind of workout because it teaches you pace control.  In an OWS, all you have to go on is RPE, so it's important to have a good feel for how fast you're going.

Very true.  I was actually swimming the same speed or faster last night compared to when I did this workout last week and gave up half way through the 50's.  The difference about last night was that I made sure to keep RPE in check, but in doing so, I focused on good form to compensate for holding back on effort. 

2012-10-23 12:01 PM
in reply to: #4433790

Master
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

I was time limited yesterday so I shortened it to this:

400wu
2x200
4x100
8x50
400cd, which I skipped because I had to catch my bus

I did the main set at a harder pace than the "600" version.  I held about :35 on the 50s (45s sendoff) so I was really happy with that.  Also needed a nap when I got to work.

I still have a long way to go building up for distance swimming.

2012-10-23 1:42 PM
in reply to: #4433790

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Anybody tracking their weight, nutrition and recovery status on a daily basis?  I am thinking about tracking all this stuff in a personal spreadsheet as the BT logs do not have a nice way to analyze it unless I am missing something.

I am up about 10 pounds since August mainly because I have not been training as much.  That will likely change here next week.  I am not a big fan of calorie counting but just keeping general observations of good/bad eating.  I think most importantly how I can track rest and how it relates to the quality of my workouts.

I am also planning to keep testing records for S/B/R to track improvements.  Anybody already doing this type of thing?  I think it will take me about 5 minutes each day to fill out anything but think it could be very beneficial.  Thoughts?



2012-10-23 2:00 PM
in reply to: #4465694

Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
rymac - 2012-10-23 8:42 AM

Anybody tracking their weight, nutrition and recovery status on a daily basis?  I am thinking about tracking all this stuff in a personal spreadsheet as the BT logs do not have a nice way to analyze it unless I am missing something.

I am up about 10 pounds since August mainly because I have not been training as much.  That will likely change here next week.  I am not a big fan of calorie counting but just keeping general observations of good/bad eating.  I think most importantly how I can track rest and how it relates to the quality of my workouts.

I am also planning to keep testing records for S/B/R to track improvements.  Anybody already doing this type of thing?  I think it will take me about 5 minutes each day to fill out anything but think it could be very beneficial.  Thoughts?

I'm currently tracking my weight every day just to keep myself accountable.  I'm also tracking my hours of sleep as that's something I'm trying to get more of.

Like you, I'm not into calorie counting.  But what I have done before is use the sick/injured rating to track my eating progress.  1 means I ate poorly, 5 means I ate really healthy.  The reason I use the sick/injured rating is because the logs tracks it on a weekly/monthly average like your weight.  So at the end of the week/month, I can see what my average eating habit was like without having to calculate it myself.  The logs don't average out the other ratings like fatigue or workout workout quality.

2012-10-23 2:24 PM
in reply to: #4465694

Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
rymac - 2012-10-23 11:42 AM

Anybody tracking their weight, nutrition and recovery status on a daily basis?  I am thinking about tracking all this stuff in a personal spreadsheet as the BT logs do not have a nice way to analyze it unless I am missing something.

I am up about 10 pounds since August mainly because I have not been training as much.  That will likely change here next week.  I am not a big fan of calorie counting but just keeping general observations of good/bad eating.  I think most importantly how I can track rest and how it relates to the quality of my workouts.

I am also planning to keep testing records for S/B/R to track improvements.  Anybody already doing this type of thing?  I think it will take me about 5 minutes each day to fill out anything but think it could be very beneficial.  Thoughts?

I've been working on weight and for the first time ever it hasn't been by tracking anything I eat.  I learned two important habits that have helped me get to my lowest weight in a long time.  Eat slowly and eat to 80% full.  I also do not eat again until I am on a scale of 6-7 on the hunger scale.  So I am eating a lot less cause I am no longer eating out of habit.  It was also a huge paradigm shift for me not to clean my plate.  If I have a few bites left and I am at 80% then those few bites either go to the garbage or to the fridge for a snack later.  I pretty much stick to quality food always now so I do not worry about food impacting my workouts.  I make sure I keep foods that are heavier in carbs like the grains and whatnot or starchy veggies to post workout meals and pretty much avoid them otherwise for the most part. 

I use to track my sleep hours but my sleep is soooo messed up lately that there is no point.  Basically I sleep from 8PM to some random hour in the morning, often 3 but sometimes it is 11PM or 2AM, or some other stupid hour and takes me hours to fall asleep.  I don't need to track that to know it is horrible. 

2012-10-23 2:29 PM
in reply to: #4465694

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
rymac - 2012-10-23 1:42 PM

Anybody tracking their weight, nutrition and recovery status on a daily basis?  I am thinking about tracking all this stuff in a personal spreadsheet as the BT logs do not have a nice way to analyze it unless I am missing something.

I am up about 10 pounds since August mainly because I have not been training as much.  That will likely change here next week.  I am not a big fan of calorie counting but just keeping general observations of good/bad eating.  I think most importantly how I can track rest and how it relates to the quality of my workouts.

I am also planning to keep testing records for S/B/R to track improvements.  Anybody already doing this type of thing?  I think it will take me about 5 minutes each day to fill out anything but think it could be very beneficial.  Thoughts?

 

I track weight and BF almost daily. I track other things such as blood pressure on a regular basis. Training peaks is pretty amazing for this. They have a zillion metrics to track, including urine color

If you have an iphone MyFitnessPal is good at tracking weight and calorie consumption.

 



Edited by marcag 2012-10-23 2:34 PM
2012-10-23 2:31 PM
in reply to: #4433790

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Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Slightly random question to anybody who has had ACL replacement, or knows about it (I had one just prior to becoming fit several years ago -- I had donor tissue for the replacement).

When the weather begins to turn cold (and it doesn't have to be very cold -- 50 degrees or lower is usually enough) I find that after (but thankfully not during) a run (any run), my knee can become incredibly sore.  The colder it is outside, the worse the post-run pain.  This pain lasts for about 10-20 minutes then goes away completely, and when I run the next day, again there is no problem at all until after the run.

Anybody have, or hear of, such a thing?  Just curious.  It's been going on for me for a few years, so I guess I'm not terribly concerned, but it'd be nice to know that I'm not alone.

(Oh and do I need testosterone to fix it?)

2012-10-23 2:45 PM
in reply to: #4464730

Master
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Central Kansas
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
tri808 - 2012-10-23 2:49 AM

Good swim tonight.  Finished the 600y sets as

1x600
2x300
3x200
6x100
12x50

Increased the pace each set and was pretty wasted at the end.

I borrowed this and modified it for my short lunch swim. 300m sets. I was still pretty wiped out on the last 50m.

1x300

2x150

3x100

6x50



Edited by KansasMom 2012-10-23 2:49 PM


2012-10-23 3:12 PM
in reply to: #4460939

Elite
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Ontario
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
tri808 - 2012-10-19 2:41 PM

Did the 600y set that was recommended earlier this week but added a 2x300 to warm up

So it went

2x300 @ 6:00 really easy coming in around 5:00
3x200 @ 4:00 easy coming in around 3:09
6x100 @ 1:50 coming in around 1:29
6x50   @ 0:50 coming in around 43

Was supposed to do 12x50 but I was just gassed.  I didn't take any rest in between sets...I forgot if I was supposed to.  It wasn't bad between the first 3 sets, but in between the 6x100 and starting the 6x50...I think I was supposed to take a 30 second break.

Jason, I wanted to ask how you felt in the early sets with so much time in between them?  You're about 5sec/100 faster than me, so I'm trying to figure out how much time to give myself. 

I did a bit of this today in a time crunched lunch swim and was coming in at around 3:17 for the 200's and 1:35/36 for the 100's (but going on 2:00).

2012-10-23 3:39 PM
in reply to: #4465801

Master
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Experior - 2012-10-23 12:31 PM

Slightly random question to anybody who has had ACL replacement, or knows about it (I had one just prior to becoming fit several years ago -- I had donor tissue for the replacement).

When the weather begins to turn cold (and it doesn't have to be very cold -- 50 degrees or lower is usually enough) I find that after (but thankfully not during) a run (any run), my knee can become incredibly sore.  The colder it is outside, the worse the post-run pain.  This pain lasts for about 10-20 minutes then goes away completely, and when I run the next day, again there is no problem at all until after the run.

Anybody have, or hear of, such a thing?  Just curious.  It's been going on for me for a few years, so I guess I'm not terribly concerned, but it'd be nice to know that I'm not alone.

(Oh and do I need testosterone to fix it?)

I noticed this sometimes after my first repair.  During my second surgery they removed one of the first surgery's screws from my leg.  Haven't had a problem since then.

2012-10-23 3:52 PM
in reply to: #4433790

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Going to get a short trainer ride in today when I get home from the OR. I was still too tired over the weekend. Still pretty tired but I am feeling lazy. Lost 6-7lbs with the pneumonia and only really gained my appetite back a few days ago but I've been famished all the time. Here goes getting back to work....
2012-10-23 4:03 PM
in reply to: #4465978

Master
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Goodyear, AZ
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

mndymond - 2012-10-23 1:52 PM Going to get a short trainer ride in today when I get home from the OR. I was still too tired over the weekend. Still pretty tired but I am feeling lazy. Lost 6-7lbs with the pneumonia and only really gained my appetite back a few days ago but I've been famished all the time. Here goes getting back to work....

 

Glad you are feeling better! Eat up!

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