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2016-10-04 9:40 AM
in reply to: JBacarella

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by JBacarella A rough day to keep the rough year going. Our Golden Retriever died today.

So sorry to see this. I truly hope that this is the last of it for y'all.



2016-10-04 11:21 AM
in reply to: amd723

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by Atlantia
Originally posted by melbo55

Did anyone happen to see any of the pics of the conditions on the run at IMMD on Saturday?  BRUTAL.  They cancelled the swim because of rough conditions and storms, shortened the bike, and most of the run was held on flooded streets.  Pictures/videos I saw on FB of friends doing the race showed runners slogging through water anywhere from ankle to calf-deep, so walking, not running.  A few intrepid folks were trying to 'run' in some of the videos I saw but it couldn't have been easy nor fun.  Most stories coming out of the race are that it was the hardest thing people had done.  Personally I think the race is cursed! (only half joking)

This may just be me inventing things in my head, but I don't remember so many weather issues when this race was ChesapeakeMan. Although....perhaps it was in late September, and was moved to October when it became IMMD? Those few weeks can be a big deal with regard to hurricane season. Or....you know.....cursed.

Yes, it was mid-to late September.  I think they may have changed the swim course as well.  I believe that the area used for the practice swim this weekend was the actual swim course for Chesapeakman. 

Have seem some suggest that this is perhaps why it was a few weeks earlier in September. I'm definitely for avoiding the heat, but some weather conditions are just crazy trying to do a race in.

The other part of this is what is the backup plan?  If you are going to start 2000 athletes on their bikes, when do you have them line up, etc.?  If you have a practice swim area, is there room for any kind of shortened swim?  If your run course is 3' above sea level and there has been heavy ran/weather is pushing the tide high, do you have a place to reroute it?

Also, I have heard people say things about hurricane season that are technically true but don't reflect reality. While hurricane season technically starts June 1, the heart of hurricane season, at least for this area, isn't until September.  Late September has been especially active for us.  (Apparently early October could be quite active for me this year -- I'm looking at you Matthew!)

yep, September and (early-mid) October are usually pretty active months.  I've often even had races effected in November.  Matthew needs to stop moving west!!  Hopefully, it will keep well off shore and just suck some of this humidity out of the air!

Ya'll are making me rethink IMNC next year...

2016-10-04 11:22 AM
in reply to: cdban66

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by cdban66

Originally posted by JBacarella A rough day to keep the rough year going. Our Golden Retriever died today.

So sorry to see this. I truly hope that this is the last of it for y'all.

Just wow. Prayers and hugs for you and the family.

2016-10-04 11:55 AM
in reply to: rrrunner

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by rrrunner

Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by Atlantia
Originally posted by melbo55

Did anyone happen to see any of the pics of the conditions on the run at IMMD on Saturday?  BRUTAL.  They cancelled the swim because of rough conditions and storms, shortened the bike, and most of the run was held on flooded streets.  Pictures/videos I saw on FB of friends doing the race showed runners slogging through water anywhere from ankle to calf-deep, so walking, not running.  A few intrepid folks were trying to 'run' in some of the videos I saw but it couldn't have been easy nor fun.  Most stories coming out of the race are that it was the hardest thing people had done.  Personally I think the race is cursed! (only half joking)

This may just be me inventing things in my head, but I don't remember so many weather issues when this race was ChesapeakeMan. Although....perhaps it was in late September, and was moved to October when it became IMMD? Those few weeks can be a big deal with regard to hurricane season. Or....you know.....cursed.

Yes, it was mid-to late September.  I think they may have changed the swim course as well.  I believe that the area used for the practice swim this weekend was the actual swim course for Chesapeakman. 

Have seem some suggest that this is perhaps why it was a few weeks earlier in September. I'm definitely for avoiding the heat, but some weather conditions are just crazy trying to do a race in.

The other part of this is what is the backup plan?  If you are going to start 2000 athletes on their bikes, when do you have them line up, etc.?  If you have a practice swim area, is there room for any kind of shortened swim?  If your run course is 3' above sea level and there has been heavy ran/weather is pushing the tide high, do you have a place to reroute it?

Also, I have heard people say things about hurricane season that are technically true but don't reflect reality. While hurricane season technically starts June 1, the heart of hurricane season, at least for this area, isn't until September.  Late September has been especially active for us.  (Apparently early October could be quite active for me this year -- I'm looking at you Matthew!)

yep, September and (early-mid) October are usually pretty active months.  I've often even had races effected in November.  Matthew needs to stop moving west!!  Hopefully, it will keep well off shore and just suck some of this humidity out of the air!

Ya'll are making me rethink IMNC next year...

don't do that!

2016-10-04 11:56 AM
in reply to: amd723

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by rrrunner

Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by Atlantia
Originally posted by melbo55

Did anyone happen to see any of the pics of the conditions on the run at IMMD on Saturday?  BRUTAL.  They cancelled the swim because of rough conditions and storms, shortened the bike, and most of the run was held on flooded streets.  Pictures/videos I saw on FB of friends doing the race showed runners slogging through water anywhere from ankle to calf-deep, so walking, not running.  A few intrepid folks were trying to 'run' in some of the videos I saw but it couldn't have been easy nor fun.  Most stories coming out of the race are that it was the hardest thing people had done.  Personally I think the race is cursed! (only half joking)

This may just be me inventing things in my head, but I don't remember so many weather issues when this race was ChesapeakeMan. Although....perhaps it was in late September, and was moved to October when it became IMMD? Those few weeks can be a big deal with regard to hurricane season. Or....you know.....cursed.

Yes, it was mid-to late September.  I think they may have changed the swim course as well.  I believe that the area used for the practice swim this weekend was the actual swim course for Chesapeakman. 

Have seem some suggest that this is perhaps why it was a few weeks earlier in September. I'm definitely for avoiding the heat, but some weather conditions are just crazy trying to do a race in.

The other part of this is what is the backup plan?  If you are going to start 2000 athletes on their bikes, when do you have them line up, etc.?  If you have a practice swim area, is there room for any kind of shortened swim?  If your run course is 3' above sea level and there has been heavy ran/weather is pushing the tide high, do you have a place to reroute it?

Also, I have heard people say things about hurricane season that are technically true but don't reflect reality. While hurricane season technically starts June 1, the heart of hurricane season, at least for this area, isn't until September.  Late September has been especially active for us.  (Apparently early October could be quite active for me this year -- I'm looking at you Matthew!)

yep, September and (early-mid) October are usually pretty active months.  I've often even had races effected in November.  Matthew needs to stop moving west!!  Hopefully, it will keep well off shore and just suck some of this humidity out of the air!

Ya'll are making me rethink IMNC next year...

don't do that!

Yeah, really!  It's on my list :-D

2016-10-04 5:19 PM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois
Well, if anyone wants guaranteed weather, I can promise it will be HOT at Vietnam 70.3. (Not planning to do it at this point, but plans could change!) The only variable is whether or not/when it might rain. But that is almost always after noon--finish fast and it won't be an issue! It "could" happen anytime, but is much more likely after 3 PM, and the finish would be closed by then.

With an ocean swim, you do always have the variable of what water conditions will be like. Some of the races here have been pretty rough, even if weather is otherwise good. Could be caused by storms offshore. That MIGHT have something to do with the timing of IM Vietnam. But I really haven't noticed any seasonal variation when I've been up there--some days are just rougher than others. Typhoons anywhere in the region tend to make things more unsettled (in fall).

At Worlds, I had visions of being unable to race when the surf break was so high the two days before the race that I couldn't even get out to swim. There is a technique to getting in/out of it that I no longer have. Had visions of the Aussies and surfer girls/dudes confidently stroking out to the deep-water start, and me stuck, paralyzed with fear, on the shore. That would have been a lot worse than what actually happened.

I am just dumb--I was reading this thread last night and wondering who this dude Matthew was that kept moving around and bothering people!


2016-10-04 10:27 PM
in reply to: JBacarella

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois
Originally posted by JBacarella

A rough day to keep the rough year going. Our Golden Retriever died today.


I'm so sorry. Hugs are coming your way.
2016-10-05 4:28 AM
in reply to: fortissimo

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by fortissimo
Originally posted by JBacarella A rough day to keep the rough year going. Our Golden Retriever died today.
I'm so sorry. Hugs are coming your way.

Adding my sympathy and prayers for your family. What an awful time it's been for you this year.

2016-10-05 4:39 AM
in reply to: IndoIronYanti

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Adding my thoughts to Maffetone training, running pace, etc.

Phil Maffetone was a major consultant for SPIN Fitness both before and when I worked there, so much of his method underlies the cycling training programs there (to be clear SPIN Fitness has a range of training programs from couch newbie to casual class cyclist to competitive cyclist). As I think that guy brigby-whatsisname ( ) said, it has the same foundation as solid endurance run programs: mostly easy, sometimes hard.

To put it into a personal perspective, Oscar (the elite Indonesian triathlete who wins stuff and Karen thinks is hot ) does some of his runs as slowly as 15:00/mi (sometimes including walk breaks. Also the terrain around his home/work is all hills. Relatively short, most of them, but steep.

We suspect it's because he's pushing his fruit cart, but regardless also on some easier runs his kids are cycling or tricycling alongside. But those runs are very much a part of his training program and he's graduated from being an elite cyclist to being an elite multisport runner as well.

As long as it doesn't affect your run form (essentially making it walking or race-zombie-ing), it's hard to run too slowly.

2016-10-05 7:11 AM
in reply to: IndoIronYanti

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois
Okay, I will admit....not to stalking Oscar, but to running slow. I basically don't track pace/distance on easy runs (or many runs at all; I do most of my harder training with heart rate, and only check pace if the explicit goal of the workout is to work on pacing, or it's a race or time trial), but on the few easy runs when I do check, it usually varies from about 9 minutes to 11 minutes per mile. (No fruit cart and no kids, so maybe faster than Oscar.) I'm not the speedster I was in my youth, but guessing I can still get close to 20 minutes for 5K and 41 minutes for 10K all out, which is a lot faster than 9-11 minute miles! I'm always surprised to see colleagues who are very casual runners going not much slower than I do, especially when I am just setting out on an early morning run during a high-volume week. Running slowly comes pretty naturally then!

Oddly, I always run a lot faster in training if I have biked first. Even it was four hours plus of very hard biking. I guess this is not a bad trait in a triathlete!
2016-10-05 1:54 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

OK, so while I realize that none of you are doctors, you are athletes with a wide range of experience and experiences.  I wanted to bounce a scenario off the group to see if anyone has had anything similar happen to them or has knowledge about it.

In my half marathon over the weekend, miles 1 through sometime during mile 9 my HR was at a pretty normal, expected rate. I felt good, very good.  Around 9 it shot up and stayed up until very close to the end of the race.  I felt very crappy and miserable and couldn't wait to be done.  The only thing I can say for sure that was going on is I was fighting a lot of knee and Achilles pain at this point.  Otherwise nothing was going on with regard to terrain, as you can see if you study the chart. FYI, my race strategy was to break the race into 4 5Ks, gradually picking up some speed on each one, then going a bit harder in the last mile.  Obviously this was going fine until whatever happened at 9 happened.

Thoughts?  



2016-10-05 2:20 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois
We are GO LIVE For Steve's donation page.

Please sign the guestbook and we can use that to dedicate our races.

http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR?pxfid=2095060&pg=fund&fr_id=9910

I can load pictures so if you have any, please send them to me.

Also don't forget your bracelets. I have TONS.

Edited by mtnbikerchk 2016-10-05 2:35 PM
2016-10-05 2:41 PM
in reply to: Atlantia

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by Atlantia
Originally posted by JBacarella A rough day to keep the rough year going. Our Golden Retriever died today.
Oh no, I'm so sorry! Big hugs to you.

Oh I am so very, very sorry. Too  much grief in your life. I hope you have happy from now on.

2016-10-05 3:05 PM
in reply to: mtnbikerchk

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by mtnbikerchk We are GO LIVE For Steve's donation page. Please sign the guestbook and we can use that to dedicate our races. http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR?pxfid=2095060&pg=fund&fr_... I can load pictures so if you have any, please send them to me. Also don't forget your bracelets. I have TONS.

Randee. this is great! Thank you for all you are have done.

2016-10-05 3:10 PM
in reply to: ceilidh

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Rant alert: Hurricane Mathew has killed my race. It was a fun, women's triathlon I was going to do with my friend. We were going to stay at the beach, force my husband into cabana-boy, sherpa duties and have FUN. I cannot get down to Fla from here. Well, I could have today, but hubbie bringing my tri gear and bike on Friday could not (long story on why two dates and two cars). No amount of finagling could make it happen. With the entire coast of SC evacuating this direction, the interstates are all lanes North and gas is already in short supply. The sad thing is, the tri is still going to happen in St. Pete. It should be marvelous weather for them. Oh.. and I have a nice 2 room cottage on the shore that can't be refunded. A boat-load of money spent for absolutely nothing.  rant over.

2016-10-05 3:13 PM
in reply to: juniperjen

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois
Originally posted by juniperjen

And this weekend is IMWC - who else will be live streaming??

(I know i will be) I LOVE watching it! Although i will never KQ - my DH and I went for our honeymoon to Hawaii in 2010 and spectated and it was awesome! :D 

Anyone have any favourites to win the men's/women's races? 




Since getting into the sport I look forward to the Kona race every year. I'm 3 months away from ageing up to the next AG and while I can't say never to qualifying, based on the times I've seen online it's certainly unlikely. Does anyone else have plans to watch? It's hard not to go with the favorites Frodo / Ryf.


2016-10-05 3:31 PM
in reply to: TXTriRook

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by TXTriRook
Originally posted by juniperjen

And this weekend is IMWC - who else will be live streaming??

(I know i will be) I LOVE watching it! Although i will never KQ - my DH and I went for our honeymoon to Hawaii in 2010 and spectated and it was awesome! :D 

Anyone have any favourites to win the men's/women's races? 

Since getting into the sport I look forward to the Kona race every year. I'm 3 months away from ageing up to the next AG and while I can't say never to qualifying, based on the times I've seen online it's certainly unlikely. Does anyone else have plans to watch? It's hard not to go with the favorites Frodo / Ryf.

I'll be paying attention somehow or other. I have no idea who really has a shot against Frodo this year. Don't know if Ryf is really the favorite. Carfrae dropped out due to the accident last year and has a much better lead up going in this year since Daniela did the IM double over the summer.

Maybe could have KQ'd, but didn't like actually racing IM and have no interest in racing Kona, but watching all the best go at it out there sure is fun!

2016-10-05 3:32 PM
in reply to: ceilidh

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by ceilidh

Rant alert: Hurricane Mathew has killed my race. It was a fun, women's triathlon I was going to do with my friend. We were going to stay at the beach, force my husband into cabana-boy, sherpa duties and have FUN. I cannot get down to Fla from here. Well, I could have today, but hubbie bringing my tri gear and bike on Friday could not (long story on why two dates and two cars). No amount of finagling could make it happen. With the entire coast of SC evacuating this direction, the interstates are all lanes North and gas is already in short supply. The sad thing is, the tri is still going to happen in St. Pete. It should be marvelous weather for them. Oh.. and I have a nice 2 room cottage on the shore that can't be refunded. A boat-load of money spent for absolutely nothing.  rant over.

That stinks!!! I am so sorry ... 

2016-10-05 3:51 PM
in reply to: juniperjen

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois
Sorry to hear about your race. Hurricane's are such a nuisance!

Carfrae is tough to beat on the run. Will be interesting to see who has the stamina to pull through this year. Anyone projecting any American's on the podium again this year? Jesse Thomas seems like a long shot but I could see him in the mix.
2016-10-05 4:12 PM
in reply to: ceilidh

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by ceilidh

Rant alert: Hurricane Mathew has killed my race. It was a fun, women's triathlon I was going to do with my friend. We were going to stay at the beach, force my husband into cabana-boy, sherpa duties and have FUN. I cannot get down to Fla from here. Well, I could have today, but hubbie bringing my tri gear and bike on Friday could not (long story on why two dates and two cars). No amount of finagling could make it happen. With the entire coast of SC evacuating this direction, the interstates are all lanes North and gas is already in short supply. The sad thing is, the tri is still going to happen in St. Pete. It should be marvelous weather for them. Oh.. and I have a nice 2 room cottage on the shore that can't be refunded. A boat-load of money spent for absolutely nothing.  rant over.

That really sucks.  Dang Matthew!  Is it possible to still have fun locally with your friend?  Still have a girl's day out, just not (sadly) at the triathlon?

2016-10-05 4:33 PM
in reply to: #5193167

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois
Sadly, not possible. She lives in the strike zone in Fla. She is getting ready to batten down hatches and try to avoid flooding.


2016-10-05 6:52 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois
Not an expert but do train a lot with HR. Wondering about heat/humidity, which can really jack up heart rate. If you said you felt crappy, could that have been the cause? Not sure what you mean by crappy as there are so many variations of it! Dead legs? Whole-body fatigue? Feeling like puking? If serious symptoms like dizziness or feeling like you were going to pass out, I'd see a doctor. (Actually, I'd probably drop out at that point.) Could be coming down with a virus or something, or dehydration/heat exhaustion. If the latter, Im really surprised you were able to keep going!

Other possibilities: Malfunction with your HR monitor. What makes me think this is how HR suddenly increases and then stays high, then is back down close to normal for the last few minutes. Normally with heat and fatigue, it is a gradual upward drift, not a sudden jump.

Finally, there is a big drop in max pace on the mile where HR jumps up. It's a net downhill but nothing extreme. Did you speed up for some reason and just push the effort level into something not sustainable? That seems unlikely because it's not the whole mile, though. Average pacing is very consistent so doubt it is that.

190-200+ seems very, very high to me for a HM effort. I would not be able to sustain 190 for more than maybe 5 minutes without throwing up. I don't think I have ever seen 200+ with my own HR. Everyone's body is different, but the other HR data is very comparable to what I'd see in a race or hard training run of that distance. I might get into high 160's or low 170's at the end, especially if it was hot or I was trying to kick, but HR that high makes me think either monitor malfunction, or continuing to run hard while ill or dangerously overheated/dehydrated.

Edited by Hot Runner 2016-10-05 6:53 PM
2016-10-06 7:17 AM
in reply to: melbo55

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by melbo55

OK, so while I realize that none of you are doctors, you are athletes with a wide range of experience and experiences.  I wanted to bounce a scenario off the group to see if anyone has had anything similar happen to them or has knowledge about it.

In my half marathon over the weekend, miles 1 through sometime during mile 9 my HR was at a pretty normal, expected rate. I felt good, very good.  Around 9 it shot up and stayed up until very close to the end of the race.  I felt very crappy and miserable and couldn't wait to be done.  The only thing I can say for sure that was going on is I was fighting a lot of knee and Achilles pain at this point.  Otherwise nothing was going on with regard to terrain, as you can see if you study the chart. FYI, my race strategy was to break the race into 4 5Ks, gradually picking up some speed on each one, then going a bit harder in the last mile.  Obviously this was going fine until whatever happened at 9 happened.

Thoughts?

I'm wondering about the equipment first, something interfering or having a problem. That is a very substantial jump. Are you actually able to achieve 190-204? At first here, I'm having trouble believing those numbers are correct without more dramatic problems. I've had things go off over 220-240 before, so more obviously something wrong with the measurements.

2016-10-06 7:21 AM
in reply to: TXTriRook

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois

Originally posted by TXTriRook Sorry to hear about your race. Hurricane's are such a nuisance! Carfrae is tough to beat on the run. Will be interesting to see who has the stamina to pull through this year. Anyone projecting any American's on the podium again this year? Jesse Thomas seems like a long shot but I could see him in the mix.

Well, for the men, Thomas, Potts, Hoffman, and TO all have at least a slight chance at podium, although Thomas may be lowest on that to me due to him not having as much IM experience as the others. Particularly at Kona. I'm not sure on the women.

2016-10-06 9:11 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Manatee Mentors 2016 - Manatee à trois
Is Kona Saturday or Sunday? Need to work out when it is our time!

Daniela Ryf did not look like herself at 70.3 Worlds. Either holding back for Kona, or ill, or over-raced or something. I don't think she had a particularly standout performance on any of the legs. Hard to say with women.....Rinny often just comes out of nowhere with few race results for the rest of the year, but she has not been super-consistent. I think on a bad day. Ryf would be beatable by any number of women. She's also a bigger athlete (by pro tri standards) so if it's unusually hot/humid that might not work in her favor.
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