Nov 15-Dec 15 "Swim Speed Secrets" Book Club (Page 5)

Uh, yeah. I'm just ... wow. Headache coming on.

Anyway, back to Sheila!

that is bizzare. that doesn't match anything I have heard before... anywhere.

So I emailed her this morning, and said that it was totally possible that I heard wrong, and I just wanted to clarify these three points (I took out the "wtfs" but left the wording exactly the same as above) because they're really so, so different than anything else I've heard/read, and here was the response:

Number 2 need some clarification, yes and no. Number 1 yes, and let's talk about it. Number 3 yes sort of. The ride is sort of continuously spread but it's more like the hand kind of stops in the catch and so the other hand IS recovering but in its simplest form no, you don't hang your hand out there. But it looks kind of like you do. But its a side effect.

So it sounds like part of it could just be me not hearing it right--I always try to own that possibility, especially when things seem weird.  But still...

*sigh*

OK, a little video of me swimming.  Not sure if this will be super helpful as it's all above water, but I'll hopefully be able to get some underwater stuff sometime soon.
The links are for everyone in the swim clinic, but I've given the time that shows my swimming in parentheses.

Beginning of Clinic: (1st swimmer 0-1:10, down and back)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fhz9KN0qx8 (Preview)

Play

(Show link)

 

Swim Clinic - Fall 2013 - Part 1

Iowa HEAT

Swimming at the beginning of the clinic.

End of Clinic: (40-1:24, again down and back)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WTlePE_0w0 (Preview)

Play

(Show link)

 

Swim Clinic - Fall 2013 - Part 2

Iowa HEAT

End of clinic

One-on-one Analysis: (14:00-16:00, with some specific feedback from the coach)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiP5fWsbW4M (Preview)

Play

(Show link)

 

Swim Clinic - Fall 2013 - Final Analysis

Iowa HEAT

 

If anybody has some suggestions or feedback, I'm kinda wide open at this point :) 

One of the things I like about Chapter 3 is the discussion of swimming as a 3 dimensional sport. She writes:

We have a depth component in addition to the lateral and forward/backward components.  It is this depth component that makes swimming different from other sports.  Two beautiful dynamics are going on at the same time.  One dynamic is taking place on the surface of the water, and the other is taking place deeper in the water where the arm is pulling...The hand and arm are anchored on the water below, pulling the body over the top.  Ideally, a swimmer wants to move the body forward, not the hand backward. (22)

I swam for a long time without making the connection to the bolded part. I'm a little embarassed to admit this, but for a LONG time when peole spoke about the pull, I was thinking about pulling the arm through the water, not holding the water and using the arm to anchor and pull the body over the water.  Super important distinction, but I didn't get it.  When I get tired, I can feel the difference, and sense that I am trying to push water back or move my arm instead of anchoring my arm and moving my body. I think Sheila does a really good job of explaining this.

Kinda hard to see much in the first couple of videos.  When I watched the first length of you swimming in the third one I thought "she's pausing and placing her hand on the entry" - then during her explanation it seemed like that's what she wanted??  I honestly don't understand what she's trying to achieve with that.

She also said that she likes what you are doing in the catch phase generating lots of power.  I however, suspect that some underwater video would show you are missing the first part of the catch.  There really isn't anything that is all that bad in your stroke - if you can get that catch right with a higher elbow, you'll have a solid stroke to work with!

I am absolutely missing some power and connection with the early part of my stroke.  It's definitley going to be a focus.

The pause/ride thing is tough.  As we'll all read later in SSS, Sheila talks about rate of turnover.  I had never timed mine before but on the first length in that 3rd video I was getting about 1.87 seconds.  On the way back--after adding the ride--I was getting about 2.22.  Sheila  specifically talks about getting this down < 1.5 seconds per stroke (pg 123).  Lol. Ugh.  Not quite sure how I'll ever get down there, but adding "ride" to my stroke doesn't seem like it will get me there.  It can all be a little confusing.  I'm not sure what ends up being just different "technique" and more clearly "right" and "wrong".

Thanks again for your feedback :)

Agreed. Sheila addresses coaches wanting to see more glide and that it is counter to increasing speed. I think using your coaches advice and Sheilas advise is going to be pulling you in two different directions in a lot of major ways.

Nice that we have some folks who can look at swimming and help analyze strokes. I am hopelessly lost at that.

Robin, I think you're absolutely right.  I am going to focus on Sheila and think of a creative way to talk to my coach/friend. 

How's your foot?

You don't want to know about the foot. It is going to take longer than I had hoped. Every day is one forward though, even if at the pace of a snail.

It's possible that some may be using "glide" interchangeably with "extend". There should be some extension in there, but it's moving continuously and around into the downswing & catch. Glide would be more holding still a bit while out front.

Another possibility is that the coach may be trying to teach a much bigger extension & catch, and slowing things down like that may be how they try to simplify things a bit to help learn that, and later speed it up a bit so the stroke is more continuous. Just trying to float a few ideas to help things come together better. Don't like having someone dealing with such divergent thoughts if it isn't necessary.

It is a very important distinction.  I agree - she does a great job explaining it.  I enjoyed the first 3 chapters - like other said, there was nothing earth shattering but lots of good stuff.

I can still feel like I'm slipping some water.  I'm hoping that the drills and tubing will help me keep my purchase better. 

I went and swam a bit today at lunch really trying to focus on that high elbow.  One of the things discussed this weekend was trying to keep your armpit open to the pool while initiating the catch.  That seemed to be an effective thing to think about today...would be curious to see if that helps anyone elese.  It kind of goes with the videoi posted a couple of days ago.

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There isn't a lot of discussion here yet.  How are people doing with the book?  It's such a quick read, I'm wondering if you're wanting to move on to discussing elements beyond Chapter 3?  If everyone is making good progress and we want to move on, I'm totally open to that.  Should we move on?

 I had some moments of feeling "balance" that I haven't felt before, so that seems like a win.  And my lats/shoulders/armpits are very tired.  So that must mean something good, right? ;)

I can't say I've ever heard the armpit open to the pool analogy before but I like it!  It's a key step in getting a good catch.  I think this is discussed in Chapter 5?  I don't have my book with me to confirm that.  She doesn't describe it like that but it's essentially what she is saying.

I'd not heard of the arm open to the pool analogy either.   I can't find it in chapter 5 but maybe I'm missing it.    I'm heading to the pool this morn and see on the workout card for Week 2-1 where in describing one of the drills she says "concentrate on high elbow catch, especially that the upper arm arcs slightly out as you gradually direct your forearm down".    That seems to be saying the same thing.   I'll try it out!    

BTW - someone earlier asked about the value of the getting the companion workouts.    I HIGHLY recommend investing in them as they're waterproof and have a ton of helpful side notes like the one above.   I'm a visual learner so there's good pictures throughout.   Don't think you'd be disappointed in the least for having spent $20ish on it. 

Sorry, the open armpit analogy was from Elesa's coach (I think?).  Sheila describes it differently in the book - I think it was something about rotating the shoulder out.  I wish I had the book with me...

Awesome!  Yes, please let us know how the workouts are going!  What did you think of the first ones?

OK, so it seems like we are kinda ready to move on?  Could everyone just kinda check in with a comment or a i haven't had a chance to read or I'm on the 4th workout or whatever?  More posting please!

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Arend, there is a really good picture in the book on pg 49 (black and white line drawings) where she shows the vectors working with a high elbow and open armpit v straight arm pull.  It's very clear in these that you get earlier backward press (rather than downward) with the arm pit open and a nice EVF.  Pg 53 also has a great pic of Mike Troy keeping that armpit open. She also talks about getting medial rotation of the deltoid, which, in turn, pushes the lat out and scapula up and forward, ready to load and anchor.

One thing I absolutely didn't know--and I know I struggle with this--is just how high that elbow is supposed to be.  1-4 inches below the water is VERY high.  working on it...

I also LOVE the pic on pg 58.  This might be my favorite pic in the book.  "You want to feel pressure here (forearm), and here (crease of wrist--but with a straight wrist), and here (palm)...every spot on the palm, fingers, and forearm"  So awesome!

Those pics!

(catch line drawings.jpg)

(sheila catch.jpg)

I've stared and stared at those pics before, but it never feels like my catch goes like that.  

So today I did 25 repeat 100s with

Things that seem to be helping:

Thinking about keeping an open armpit for as long as possible and thinking about what the arrows would look like coming off my arm in the catch (dorky!)

Saying, Rainman style, "over the barrel", every single catch                                                                                                                                                                                 

Finding the balance that creates the right amount of tone--not tension.  Still really working on this.  I can only have it right (or what I think is right) for about 25yds at a time.

Does anybody  have any good tips for thinking about the right amount of tone? Right now, when I get "over the barrel" I feel myself kind of tense up to connect the core/hip drive, but then relax a bit.  However, I read somewhere that "good" swimmers are constantly moving from one hip rotation to the next, and if that is true, I shouldn't be relaxing as much as I am between catches.  Thoughts?