BT Development Mentor Program Archives » SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Rss Feed  
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2013-12-31 9:08 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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2013-12-31 9:17 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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2013-12-31 9:26 AM
in reply to: kcarroll

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2013-12-31 10:14 AM
in reply to: axteraa

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Agree with what Fred is suggesting.  The way I see it, the 20' test is not a race.  You don't get a medal on it, and even if you wanted to brag about your FTP on ST, you can still add about 50-100% to your number anyway... 

The purpose of the test is to get a number you can train around.  If you start a tad bit too easy, and add power the second half...your test number is still usable.  Maybe you can figure you could have possibly tested 2-3 watts higher if you want...but in general your subsequent training rides will be able to fine tune your FTP anyway.  Main takeaway is that you now have a new number to base your training on.

On the flipside, if you go out too hard and blow up...the test number becomes completely worthless.  You really have no clue how many watts you need to adjust and basically you end up feeling like you need to retest ASAP.

Lastly...the key I have found out to a good 20' test, or even a good 20k TT is the warm up.  Warm up well and don't be afraid to push it hard to open up the legs.  I know early on, in the back of my mind I was conscious about saving my legs during the warm up...but I found that the harder I went during the warm up, the better I felt during the test or the TT. 

 

2013-12-31 1:32 PM
in reply to: Fred D

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

I've done both ways, started out strong at a high number and held on for dear life as the average slowly dropped.  And started off a bit lower and held on for dear life as it slowly crept up

They both suck

 

2013-12-31 4:11 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by ChrisM

I've done both ways, started out strong at a high number and held on for dear life as the average slowly dropped.  And started off a bit lower and held on for dear life as it slowly crept up

They both suck

And I suspect that, like with negative or positive splits in a running race, it depends on each person what yields a consistently higher number (or lower time in the race).



2013-12-31 4:11 PM
in reply to: 0

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

DP - Doh!



Edited by mcmanusclan5 2013-12-31 4:11 PM
2013-12-31 4:39 PM
in reply to: Fred D

Pro
6191
50001000100252525
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Fred D

Arend, I would aim 5% lower than expected for the first few minutes and see what happens.

Then slowly creep up the wattage as you feel better. Once you cross the 14' mark, usually you end up having enough in you to finish.... it's that first 5 minutes that is mentally the hardest.

*I* bet you actually get better numbers starting a bit lower than too high....

I'll try this on my next one, for sure!

Did a ride this morning with a super awesome cycling buddy - lots and LOTS of killer hills. Hit my highest Strava suffer score ever. I didn't go to work. I drank a mimosa and took a nap instead. 

Happy new year, all!

2013-12-31 10:56 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

Master
2912
2000500100100100100
...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Happy new year all - sorry to be out of pocket of late, but dealing with a sick wife and a sick pet - both are on the mend, thankfully. Just finished a dinner for 36, so been cooking for DAYS. I did manage to do Blender this afternoon, just to squeak in overt 4000 miles for the year in honor of this group. Thanks everyone!!
2014-01-01 6:12 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Happy New Year SBR Utopiaites!

I hope each of you has a safe and happy new year.





2014-01-01 9:01 AM
in reply to: Jason N

Expert
1260
10001001002525
Norton Shores, MI
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by Jason N

Agree with what Fred is suggesting.  The way I see it, the 20' test is not a race.  You don't get a medal on it, and even if you wanted to brag about your FTP on ST, you can still add about 50-100% to your number anyway... 

The purpose of the test is to get a number you can train around.  If you start a tad bit too easy, and add power the second half...your test number is still usable.  Maybe you can figure you could have possibly tested 2-3 watts higher if you want...but in general your subsequent training rides will be able to fine tune your FTP anyway.  Main takeaway is that you now have a new number to base your training on.

On the flipside, if you go out too hard and blow up...the test number becomes completely worthless.  You really have no clue how many watts you need to adjust and basically you end up feeling like you need to retest ASAP.

Lastly...the key I have found out to a good 20' test, or even a good 20k TT is the warm up.  Warm up well and don't be afraid to push it hard to open up the legs.  I know early on, in the back of my mind I was conscious about saving my legs during the warm up...but I found that the harder I went during the warm up, the better I felt during the test or the TT. 

 

Agree. If you have been working the top of your ranges and feel like an improvement in FTP is fairly certain then I would typically start at my previous 20MP or a few watts below for the first 5' and slowly build. This last test for me went really well. Here were my quarter (5'AP) splits: 273; 278; 282; 294 and resulted in an 11 watt bump from last test.


2014-01-01 9:08 AM
in reply to: rymac

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Happy New Year everyone!

Thanks for all the advice on the 20' test.  I'm definitely going to take the slightly conservative approach starting out and (hopefully) build it up.

Looking at Facebook pictures of people doing a Polar Bear dip here.  They had to cut a hole in the ice about 20 x 20 feet for them to use and the air temperature is -20C, windchill -27C.  I'm all for a little craziness from time to time but no way I'm doing that!

2014-01-01 10:07 AM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

On that note, saw this was coming up. Other super cold days have warmed up a few degrees when they came, but this is really getting down there. -10F as the high?





(2014-01-01_1000.png)



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2014-01-01 11:19 AM
in reply to: brigby1

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Yeah, that's downright cold!

First run of the year is done.  Similar temps to yesterday but at least the sun was out - that helped a bit.

2014-01-01 12:07 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Veteran
1677
1000500100252525
Houston, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

I left warm, sunny Southern California and came back to the "cold" temps of Houston yesterday.  I raced a 5k this morning and while it wasn't a PR, it was a great way to start the year!  Think I'll get on the trainer this afternoon for an easy spin to get some of the fatigue out of my legs (I somehow got talked into taking a strength / cardio / boxing class with my mom on Monday night and my entire body is wrecked....I can't remember the last time I was this sore!  So I'm hoping an easy spin will help with that too).  

Hope you're all off to a good 2014

2014-01-01 4:18 PM
in reply to: Fred D

Master
5557
50005002525
, California
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Fred D

I am very pleased with crossing 100 miles running for 3 consecutive months!

First time in several years.

I aim to keep this up for 2014, with a strong swim fouc in January and I am going to get back to 2 trainer rides a week, both aimed at maxing out at 1 hour.

*I* think the key for me being able to run despite illness and work committments has been related to keeping it:

1. Easy pace.

2. Treadmill mainly.

3. Doing some basic leg strength training.

 

I don't log strength training usually, but I have been doing leg weights 2-3 times per week and am liking it!

Nice on the running!  I topped 100 for December after fighting pneumonia late Oct / early Nov.  So I was pretty proud of that.  I've had a bad relationship with my bike since Tahoe, though.  I need to get back to it.



2014-01-02 6:36 AM
in reply to: 0

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

It was cold enough this morning that I didn't even bother packing my run stuff as I know it won't even get close to a reasonable temperature with the wind.  I've actually contemplated getting on the treadmill a couple of times in the last week.  

Must.Not.Give.In.

ETA: 5 x 5' @ >300w on the trainer this morning.  Brutal.



Edited by axteraa 2014-01-02 6:37 AM




(cold-25.jpg)



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2014-01-02 6:44 AM
in reply to: axteraa

Melon Presser
52116
50005000500050005000500050005000500050002000100
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by axteraa

It was cold enough this morning that I didn't even bother packing my run stuff as I know it won't even get close to a reasonable temperature with the wind.  I've actually contemplated getting on the treadmill a couple of times in the last week.  

Must.Not.Give.In.

ETA: 5 x 5' @ >300w on the trainer this morning.  Brutal.

Well, with it being so bloody cold--you're getting great indoor swim training in, right? Are you still doing the Swim Speed Workouts? How's that going? Anybody else following 'em?

2014-01-02 6:47 AM
in reply to: TriAya

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by TriAya

Originally posted by axteraa

It was cold enough this morning that I didn't even bother packing my run stuff as I know it won't even get close to a reasonable temperature with the wind.  I've actually contemplated getting on the treadmill a couple of times in the last week.  

Must.Not.Give.In.

ETA: 5 x 5' @ >300w on the trainer this morning.  Brutal.

Well, with it being so bloody cold--you're getting great indoor swim training in, right? Are you still doing the Swim Speed Workouts? How's that going? Anybody else following 'em?

You would think it would be a great opportunity for me to do so.  

2014-01-02 6:54 AM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
2912
2000500100100100100
...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by axteraa

Must.Not.Give.In.




Gotta do what ya gotta do.
2014-01-02 6:55 AM
in reply to: TankBoy

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by TankBoy
Originally posted by axteraa

Must.Not.Give.In.

Gotta do what ya gotta do.

Rusty, you were supposed to be my rock to talk me out of it!



2014-01-02 8:00 AM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
2912
2000500100100100100
...at home in The ATL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by TankBoy
Originally posted by axteraa

Must.Not.Give.In.

Gotta do what ya gotta do.

Rusty, you were supposed to be my rock to talk me out of it!




Oh, sorry - I didn't mean for you to get on the treadmill - I actually meant for you to pull on your mittens and get outside and run!
2014-01-02 10:14 AM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
1927
100050010010010010025
Guilford, CT
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Arend, Nice work on the 5x5! I see you crushing it on my Strava feed and keep bumping up those watts every session.

I did A Very Dark Place from Sufferfest yesterday...the 5x4' (3'). Note, not fun when slightly hungover. Looks so innocent on paper. This is my first year doing any real vo2 specific work on the bike and I just started a couple weeks ago. I'm hoping it helps. I had spent the vast majority time at tempo and sweetspot all the time with the occasional attack in a group or strava segment, so hoping the structured efforts help 'pull' up that ftp. Damn they are painful and lonely on the trainer though.

Happy New Year Everyone!
2014-01-02 11:03 AM
in reply to: JAYCT

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by JAYCT Arend, Nice work on the 5x5! I see you crushing it on my Strava feed and keep bumping up those watts every session. I did A Very Dark Place from Sufferfest yesterday...the 5x4' (3'). Note, not fun when slightly hungover. Looks so innocent on paper. This is my first year doing any real vo2 specific work on the bike and I just started a couple weeks ago. I'm hoping it helps. I had spent the vast majority time at tempo and sweetspot all the time with the occasional attack in a group or strava segment, so hoping the structured efforts help 'pull' up that ftp. Damn they are painful and lonely on the trainer though. Happy New Year Everyone!

That's a fun one! Still trying to work on how much to do this. I see Shane's guys doing it more frequently than I do, but my 5 min to FTP relationship seems stronger than profiles here except the Pursuiter. Maybe 1 spot down? The All-Rounder is 2 and the Time Trialist is 6.

2014-01-02 11:33 AM
in reply to: brigby1

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by JAYCT Arend, Nice work on the 5x5! I see you crushing it on my Strava feed and keep bumping up those watts every session. I did A Very Dark Place from Sufferfest yesterday...the 5x4' (3'). Note, not fun when slightly hungover. Looks so innocent on paper. This is my first year doing any real vo2 specific work on the bike and I just started a couple weeks ago. I'm hoping it helps. I had spent the vast majority time at tempo and sweetspot all the time with the occasional attack in a group or strava segment, so hoping the structured efforts help 'pull' up that ftp. Damn they are painful and lonely on the trainer though. Happy New Year Everyone!

That's a fun one! Still trying to work on how much to do this. I see Shane's guys doing it more frequently than I do, but my 5 min to FTP relationship seems stronger than profiles here except the Pursuiter. Maybe 1 spot down? The All-Rounder is 2 and the Time Trialist is 6.

It seems to be more about when it's done vs how much.  I did very little of it from about April to November with the focus being more on sweet spot and threshold during that time.  Now that there are no races any time soon, VO2max stuff is a lot more common.

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