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2009-11-06 7:53 AM
in reply to: #2492759

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Here is a link to the power conversions that Jorge was talking about if anyone is interested.

http://www.kurtkinetic.com/documents/Power_Curves419.pdf


2009-11-06 8:19 AM
in reply to: #2500517

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
StMaas - 2009-11-06 8:09 AM W1Q2 done last night...I seem to be challenged to get past that 100%+ HR mark


I think this is what (in my mind) makes the training by HR for the short sessions either not really possible, or you will push yourself much harder than someone going by RPE or power (riding for 1 minute at 100% FTP should not be that tough, but 100% HR is really intense).  As Jorge has said before, the HR is going to take a while to catch up to the effort, and for 30 seconds or 1 minute efforts I don't think you're going to get there.

Once you start doing the longer intervals at 3 minutes or 5 minutes, then HR should be a better predictor of your effort.  Plus more intervals in a session you'll see your HR continue to creep up. 

That said, I always find that my HR goes much higher in the am than the pm - and I can easily track this from the power output on my trainer.  When it comes time to do the tests and long, intense intervals, I'll likely do them in the evenings otherwise my HR will climb too quickly and I'll struggle to meet the power numbers (I could dial back the effort, but what fun would that be).

Edited by GoFaster 2009-11-06 8:21 AM
2009-11-06 9:15 AM
in reply to: #2500559

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
JorgeM - 2009-11-06 8:32 AM
louiskie - 2009-11-05 6:58 PM Hi Jorge. Q2 done for me. Had fun and worked very hard. Quick question about how you determine if your cycling fitness is improving if you are only going by HR/RPE. For power I can see that after X weeks you might see a power increase of X watts in the test. For HR, are we looking to increase our average HR over that test? Does that equal increased fitness? I'm just curious- whatever the test is, these sessions are awesome.


This is a bit trickier indeed however you can get a guestimate baseline once we do the testing. You can use your trainer and speedometer as a way to set a benchmark for improvements though this will require for you to test under almost identical circumstances to reduce any variable that may throw off the result. By that I mean to set up your trainer indentical or as close to it every time you ride.

IOW, everytime you ride set the resistance on your trainer the very same based on what's recommended by the manufacturer, pump your tires to the same PSI recommended by the tire manufacturer, test around the same time everytime, fuel as similar as possible, do it in a ventilated area for cooling effects or use a big fan, etc. By doing all this it will be a nice attemtp at replicating similar testing circumstances all the time and that will help you as on the 1st test you can record what avg speed you can hold at your LTHR or LTRPE (going all out for 30 min). That way on next tests and when doing intervals your'll have an idea of what avg speed (gearing combo) you should have to achieved x or y intensity.
That way next time you test if for instance the 1st test your LTHR was around 175bpm and you avg 20mph and on the next round of testing you still have the same LTHR @ 175bpm but this time you avg 20.5mph while keeping all variables the same then you'll know you are going faster at the same effort which means greater fitness/power.

Another alternative is to guesstimate power by checking if your trainer manufacturer offers power conversions based on resistance and gearing combo. Some brands like Kurt trainer does, don't know if others do but check on their website, maybe yours do as well.

I hope that answers your questions and gives you an idea as to how to make sure your testing variables are as controlled as possible so you can replicate those for future testing and track fitness improvements


Makes sense. My only problem is I don't have a speedometer on my rear tire though so I will just do the tests and try to do an outside time-trial every month or so (not ideal because conditions change so much). Or I suppose I could get a cyclometer for the rear tire. Looking forward to #3 tonight!
2009-11-06 9:35 AM
in reply to: #2500763

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
louiskie - 2009-11-06 9:15 AM

Makes sense. My only problem is I don't have a speedometer on my rear tire though so I will just do the tests and try to do an outside time-trial every month or so (not ideal because conditions change so much). Or I suppose I could get a cyclometer for the rear tire. Looking forward to #3 tonight!


You can get a cheap Cateye (wired) for the rear wheel for less than $35. My Astrale 8 does speed, cadence, distance, and time, as well as max and avgs of each. May even find a cheaper computer that does less, but as long as it measures speed, you're good to go.
2009-11-06 10:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
jorge didn't think you will start already. 

i probably won't get a chance to start for another 3 weeks.  HIM and want to take 2-3 weeks off.  probably start december.

would you recommend i start in week 1 or start at the week you will be on?
2009-11-06 11:14 AM
in reply to: #2492759


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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Jorge,

You mention that Q3 can be done with a low cadence (60-70 RPE). What cadence range should one shoot for during the Q1 and Q2 sessions?

Thanks


2009-11-06 3:01 PM
in reply to: #2500559

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Jorge,

Any chance of Week 2 (at least the first workout) being posted (or PM'ed) before Sunday evening? Based on work schedule, I'm needing to start Week 2 on Sunday rather than Monday. If not, no sweat, but it would sure make my schedule easier.

Much thanks. I've really "enjoyed" the first week.
2009-11-06 8:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
louiskie - 2009-11-06 10:15 AM



Makes sense. My only problem is I don't have a speedometer on my rear tire though so I will just do the tests and try to do an outside time-trial every month or so (not ideal because conditions change so much). Or I suppose I could get a cyclometer for the rear tire. Looking forward to #3 tonight!


I was able to pick up a rear wheel receiver unit for my model speedo for like 10 bucks on Performance Bike. That might be a solution...
2009-11-06 9:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread

Q3 done....Way too much fun.  Now if I can still run my 16 miler in the morning... I also did 40 pull ups, 80 push ups and 80 squats in 5:42 after Q2.  I think my legs will protest tomorrow....oh well.

2009-11-07 3:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Q3 done, Week1 in the bucket.  I can already see how this is going to pay dividends...
2009-11-07 5:11 PM
in reply to: #2502633

Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Week 1 Q1 done, late start.

My first ride in clipless.  Once I was done I unclipped and stood there, stradling the bike.  My legs did not want to pick up and step over the tube.  I had to ease it over the top.  I could feel the workout in a different section of my legs than before.

Also my first ride with my new meter.  This one has cadeance, along with power. It was interesting to see what I felt was a normal ride pace.  I always thought I was low in the 70's, but I was keeping around a mid 80's.  My average was 78, but that figures in slow downs also.

This should be fun

Joe

2183 miles to go for Key West


2009-11-07 8:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread

Has anybody else had problems trying to print out the workouts for the week?  I tried to print it out, but I can not seem to get it to fit on one page. 

2009-11-07 9:13 PM
in reply to: #2502996

Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
brownnugen - 2009-11-07 8:54 PM

Has anybody else had problems trying to print out the workouts for the week?  I tried to print it out, but I can not seem to get it to fit on one page. 


 I usally copy them to excel and blow them up.  I staple them to the floor joist in my basement in front of my bike.  It makes it easy to read.
2009-11-08 12:06 PM
in reply to: #2502996

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
brownnugen - 2009-11-07 7:54 PM

Has anybody else had problems trying to print out the workouts for the week?  I tried to print it out, but I can not seem to get it to fit on one page. 


I've been clicking on them to read from a larger view in Firefox, then copying that image and pasting it into an MS Word document. The image seems to auto-size itself to the page when I paste it, and reprints from that Word document are page sized too.

Later in the program, I'll scan the list of weeks in the Word document to find similar workouts to the current one and use a copy of the erg file from the earlier session as a starting point for the current erg file. That minimizes the editing necessary to build the erg files for the computrainer.

I did Q3 last night and with the new higher rest levels, the workout seems plenty hard enough now. Maybe even a bit too hard for a workout effort now, but I'll see what the testing says when we get there.
2009-11-08 4:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Q3 done this afternoon.
first 10 minutes of main set at 135 hr, 2nd 10 minutes at 142 hr, 3rd 10 minutes at 148 (all the average for the 10 minutes)  For the last 10 minutes I had to talk to myself alot to get through without backing off.

Crazy week this week--> but the bike workouts will be top priority (sorry run and swim workouts)
2009-11-08 5:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Week # 2 is up available here: http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/

Tests for those training with power:http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/2008/11/20-min-time-trial-power-test.html
http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/2008/11/5-min-time-trial-power-test.html

Test for those training with HRM/HRM:http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/2008/11/30-min-time-trial-test-for-hr-users.html

I'll catch up with questions tomorrow; I've been battlling a chest cold since yesterday and I haven't been around my PC much.

Enjoy


2009-11-08 5:46 PM
in reply to: #2503833

Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
I looked up last year's spreadsheet from this plan.  My first average watts were 154, this year it's 167.
2009-11-08 6:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Missed out on Q3 this week, but got in a 2 hour outdoor ride today, so that kind of makes up for it.  I'll need to wait till tomorrow or Tuesday evening for the first test. It'll be interesting to see how this year compares to last year.
2009-11-08 10:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Man, left a puddle on the floor after Q3 tonight. I made the mistake of trying to watch a movie during this one though since the intervals where longer but it clear distracted me and I had to keep kicking my butt to hurry up. Next time I'll stick to just watching podcasts during the WU/CD and stick to the music for the rest of it.
2009-11-09 6:26 AM
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Edited by trotpntbll 2009-11-09 6:38 AM
2009-11-09 7:38 AM
in reply to: #2504264

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread

Awesome week last one even though I didn't complete the bonus (due to running wouts) - I expect more from my legs this week.  I guess I need to go back on the thread and define TEST 30 min cuz that's today's wout.  The link is right there at the top of this page.

To everyone else, keep it up if u wanna kick some butt next season.



Edited by TrkHilo2k 2009-11-09 7:42 AM


2009-11-09 7:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
GoFaster - 2009-11-08 6:47 PM Missed out on Q3 this week, but got in a 2 hour outdoor ride today, so that kind of makes up for it.  I'll need to wait till tomorrow or Tuesday evening for the first test. It'll be interesting to see how this year compares to last year.


Missed Q3 here too, but got outside for 3 hours today, so I figure that makes up for Q3 + the optional "long" ride.

I need to rearrange my schedule to accommodate 3 trainer rides each week + all the PT and other stuff I'm trying to do!

Onto week TWO!
2009-11-09 8:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Jorge, thanks for getting Week 2 up so quickly. Managed to get Week 2, Q1 in last night. Very pleased with my 20-minute test, although it's disheartening to watch the gradual power fade from the start to the finish of the actual test itself. I'm looking forward to the 5-minute test in Q3 so that I can get a new estimate of FTP. It's looking like I may have estimated a bit low in Week 1.

Q2 looks like a suffer-fest. Can't wait!
2009-11-09 9:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread

65 degrees and sunny in Chicago in November meant that I had to substitute a trainer workout for the great outdoors (but periodically turning into a gusty headwind amde me feel like I was suffering through intervals).  On to week 2 . . .

2009-11-09 12:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Really enjoyed the first week. Went mtn biking instead of doing Q3 on Saturday.

However, now I am sick and I just found out I leave this coming Saturday for a 10 day overseas trip.

Next couple weeks are not looking so good , I may be starting this whole thing over in a few weeks.
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