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2014-03-10 9:56 AM
in reply to: Scott71


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Subject: RE: Week 10

Week 9 was a wash. I managed to keep my running streak, though for the first week of 24 of my IMMT training plan, I managed 26 miles of running, and one hour on the bike. I couldn't swim because I was coughing too much.

Yesterday was back to business though. I decided to pick up with the group at week 10 and not try to bother to catch up.

I did threshold 1 for week 10 last night, and I am not sure if it is because I am still coming off my illness, or that I never got a chance to get used to my new FTP, but those 20 minute intervals were rough (this is a huge understatement). My heartrate was pretty much in the 160-170 range for the entire second interval, and for me that is pretty high. 150s is manageable for a good length of time. In the 160s, I am just trying not to watch the seconds click by on the clock. 170s is my danger zone where I can blow up on any given minute. 180s is my max range.

I hit my target on the nose for the first 20 minute interval at 288, 96%, but the second one I came up a bit short at 282 at 94%. I was a bit disappointed, but I can't say that it wasn't a quality workout.

After a week of no real training, I started the week at 175 pounds, only a pound over what I left at, so I am pretty happy with that. I am going to start actively working on my diet and try to get down a few pounds before my first races. I have a HM on 4/13, and a HIM on 05/3. I'm not sure what that will do for my power, but hopefully not much, since I'd like to gain some watts/kg.

Jason, like everyone, I am jealous of your venue, and opportunity for races, and nice results by the way. And Tom, way to go on first AG, nice job!



(TH1wk10.png)



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TH1wk10.png (73KB - 5 downloads)
activity_458500283.tcx (585KB - 2 downloads)


2014-03-10 3:11 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Originally posted by Jason N

Just finished my first road race of the season.  Short one, with a 4.7 mile climb at 4% thrown in the middle.  I think some of you may find it interesting in that it was short, similar to a 20' test, but there are variations in power while responding to attacks, surges, or sitting in the draft...but not that much because it was uphill.  A flatter road race would have much bigger spikes and a lot more coasting or soft pedaling.

The lower dotted yellow line represents my AP of 279w, and the upper dotted yellow line represents my NP of 304w.  You can see how much time I spent above and below the line and where it occurred.  The race was neutral the first mile, and as soon as we hit the base of the climb, it was game on.  You can see the big effort the first 5-10 minutes to establish position as breaks formed.  I was in the second group of 3.  Then the last 4 spikes was me trying to make an effort to latch back on as a gap formed, making an attack myself, then trying to latch back on when my attack failed.  You can also see the low power at the end shows I got dropped at the end...LOL.  Still managed 3rd in my division and 6th OA. 

 




Nice job Jason. One minute I'm glad I joined this group, the next minute I'm not. So cool to see power during outdoor rides and REAL race pace efforts documented. I'm seriously thinking of doing some road races. I'll definitely be a contendar at Cat 4/5 based on my progress in this group. Are you racing the 70.3 there (Kona) in May? I have a friend who's going out there for that.
2014-03-10 3:38 PM
in reply to: reecealan

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Subject: RE: Week 10

Originally posted by reecealan
Originally posted by Jason N

Just finished my first road race of the season.  Short one, with a 4.7 mile climb at 4% thrown in the middle.  I think some of you may find it interesting in that it was short, similar to a 20' test, but there are variations in power while responding to attacks, surges, or sitting in the draft...but not that much because it was uphill.  A flatter road race would have much bigger spikes and a lot more coasting or soft pedaling.

The lower dotted yellow line represents my AP of 279w, and the upper dotted yellow line represents my NP of 304w.  You can see how much time I spent above and below the line and where it occurred.  The race was neutral the first mile, and as soon as we hit the base of the climb, it was game on.  You can see the big effort the first 5-10 minutes to establish position as breaks formed.  I was in the second group of 3.  Then the last 4 spikes was me trying to make an effort to latch back on as a gap formed, making an attack myself, then trying to latch back on when my attack failed.  You can also see the low power at the end shows I got dropped at the end...LOL.  Still managed 3rd in my division and 6th OA. 

 

Nice job Jason. One minute I'm glad I joined this group, the next minute I'm not. So cool to see power during outdoor rides and REAL race pace efforts documented. I'm seriously thinking of doing some road races. I'll definitely be a contendar at Cat 4/5 based on my progress in this group. Are you racing the 70.3 there (Kona) in May? I have a friend who's going out there for that.

I've done Honu 70.3 the past 3 years.  It's a fun race...challenging with the wind and heat.  But I'm taking a year off from tris and focusing on bike racing this year.  Honestly, I'm not sure at this point I'm going back to a dedicated tri schedule anytime soon...having too much fun riding and bike racing.

Road races are a lot of fun.  Honestly, I wasn't looking at my power numbers that much during that race...it's more about managing the spikes in effort, making the right moves, and following the right wheels. 

2014-03-10 8:40 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 9
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by tallytom
won first in my age


Congratulations !!!

Have you ever done this race before ? Can you compare time to previous years ?


No first time for that race. Oh well. Got another race in a few weeks and I'll get to check it out.
2014-03-10 8:40 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Week 10

Week 9 complete with VO2-2 tonight - OUCH!!

TSS 84

NP 194

I thought this would be the easier of the VO2 workouts, but I'm not so sure. My legs were tired!





Attachments
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WK9VO2-2.tcx (2202KB - 2 downloads)
2014-03-10 9:38 PM
in reply to: karen26.2

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Subject: RE: Week 10

Jason, what is your training like (other than the obvious: more biking) now that you're focusing on bike racing vs tri's. 

 

And week 10 THR 1 is done. It wasn't too bad. I was tempted to push the 2nd 20 minute interval a bit harder but decided to wait until THR 2 later in the week. I think I'm starting to get back the fitness that was lost in January.

 





Attachments
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Wk 10 THR 1.csv (168KB - 1 downloads)


2014-03-10 10:05 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Week 10

Originally posted by ImSore  I did threshold 1 for week 10 last night, and I am not sure if it is because I am still coming off my illness, or that I never got a chance to get used to my new FTP, but those 20 minute intervals were rough (this is a huge understatement)

x2

I don't know if it was because I'm not quite clear of this cold or if it was because I did WK 9 Threshold 2 last night, but holy smokes WK 10 Threshold 1 was hard.

My legs were like lead for the 2nd 20 minute interval.  I had to stop for about a minute or so halfway through to let the dog out and thought that would refresh the legs, but it was a struggle the entire ride.

Just shy of the targets - 95% and 94%.

At 87 TSS it was only 2 pts higher than Threshold 2 the night before, but I find the 5 minute intervals much more tolerable.

Anyway, glad its in the books.



Edited by Scott71 2014-03-10 10:12 PM




Attachments
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WK10THR1.tcx (2867KB - 2 downloads)
2014-03-10 10:15 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Finally got to Wk8 VO2-1, did an easy ride Friday, first ride outside since October, then took 2 days off, sleep that last few nights was terrible but I wanted to make sure I got a good nights sleep tonight so I went ahead and did the workout. Turned out OK, the last two of the 5x4' intervals were tough and actually that last 5' at 98% FTP wasn't a cake walk either.

NP = 275W
TSS = 90





Attachments
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Wk8 VO2-1.csv (155KB - 4 downloads)
2014-03-11 6:12 AM
in reply to: karen26.2

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Originally posted by karen26.2

Week 9 complete with VO2-2 tonight - OUCH!!

TSS 84

NP 194

I thought this would be the easier of the VO2 workouts, but I'm not so sure. My legs were tired!




I sit there going "wonder which of these workouts would be easier".
None of them :-(
2014-03-11 7:54 AM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Scott71 - Agree, Week 10 Threshold 1 felt tougher than it should have. If not for the group accountability I would have cut the 2nd 20' short. I ended up turning it into 2x20' at ~99% FTP. That's where the cadence and gearing felt comfortable.





(Image 1.PNG)



(Image 2.PNG)



(Image 3.PNG)



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Image 1.PNG (46KB - 4 downloads)
Image 2.PNG (58KB - 5 downloads)
Image 3.PNG (13KB - 3 downloads)
2014-03-11 8:02 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Hey all, good to see everyone still humming along. I did my first Crit race a couple weeks ago and then left for vacation. Just got back. I just looked at the power file and thought some of you might have a little interest.

Good news is, I won I went off the front a couple times with some testers early but nobody followed so I played it smart and sat back in the pack. I feined an attack later while saving a bunch of reserves and one guy got jumpy and went a little early on the second to last lap. Me and a teamate jumped on his wheel and we started getting a little separation and then with about 20-30 seconds to go I went.

Now, I've just taken 8 days off the bike and I have no idea where to start back up again.

From the race:
Power (watts): 227
NP (watts): 345
Cadence (rpm): 87
Heart Rate (bpm): 156
VI: 1.517
IF: 1.131
Work (kJ): 451
TSS: 70

Edit: Thanks for sharing yours Jason and congrats on a great result. I like looking at what different races require during each "selection".

I also just looked at my timing and powercurve. Overall the race felt easier than a regular sufferfest workout to me. The few minutes was hard with the last 2 minutes at 467 watts (about 150% of ftp) and the last 30 seconds of that being 820 watts which was essentially the winning move. When I was sitting in during the flat I am not really exerting myself at all to stay with the group except for the hill unless an attack goes.



Edited by JAYCT 2014-03-11 9:26 AM




(Screen Shot 2014-03-11 at 7.42.22 AM.png)



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Screen Shot 2014-03-11 at 7.42.22 AM.png (764KB - 11 downloads)


2014-03-11 10:15 AM
in reply to: JAYCT

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Subject: RE: Week 10
I did Sweet Spot 9 outside yesterday, on what I thought was a flat course, and learned a lot. First of all, you can hardly tell by my file that I was DOING Sweet Spot. The second 30 minute interval in particular there are some minor downhills, but you can't try and increase your power to keep up because there are also some street crossings you have to be ready to stop at, some curves with debris on the trail, etc. It was a real eye opener as far as how much time outside I spend NOT pedaling. However, I am excited to report that the last 10 minute interval that was supposed to be close to threshold I was easily holding, and averaging just over 20 mph. I have never seen my speed so high for a sustained flat portion, and this was at the end of a workout, and I didn't even feel like I was working terribly hard. I am super excited about how I'll do in my first tri next month!

This weekend is my first race of the year, but it's a "Splash and Dash" so I will not get to show off my new biking skills. I had been somewhat neglecting my biking and swimming in order to focus on the biking this winter, so I wasn't particularly looking forward to this race. However, at my swim on Saturday I had a great workout, hitting close to some of my best times, and I had a very good run workout as well, so maybe some of this bike fitness is crossing over!

Jaime



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activity_458840889.tcx (4886KB - 1 downloads)
2014-03-11 11:20 AM
in reply to: JAYCT

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Originally posted by JAYCT

Hey all, good to see everyone still humming along. I did my first Crit race a couple weeks ago and then left for vacation. Just got back. I just looked at the power file and thought some of you might have a little interest.

I also just looked at my timing and powercurve. Overall the race felt easier than a regular sufferfest workout to me. The few minutes was hard with the last 2 minutes at 467 watts (about 150% of ftp) and the last 30 seconds of that being 820 watts which was essentially the winning move. When I was sitting in during the flat I am not really exerting myself at all to stay with the group except for the hill unless an attack goes.




That is the craziest VI I have ever seen :-)

Congratulations on that win
2014-03-11 11:24 AM
in reply to: trisuppo

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Originally posted by trisuppo

Scott71 - Agree, Week 10 Threshold 1 felt tougher than it should have. If not for the group accountability I would have cut the 2nd 20' short. I ended up turning it into 2x20' at ~99% FTP. That's where the cadence and gearing felt comfortable.




Mitch, how did your HR compare to your HR during the 20' test ?

I did the 2x20 this AM. I was feeling brave (stupid) so I did them at 100%. The first one was ok, the 2nd required some serious mind games.My HR was 10 beats lower than LTHR.
2014-03-11 11:26 AM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Originally posted by Scott71
it was only 2 pts higher than Threshold 2 the night before


Doing these on back to back days is very brave :-)
2014-03-11 11:30 AM
in reply to: kcarroll

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Originally posted by kcarroll
And week 10 THR 1 is done. It wasn't too bad.


That is a very good sign because THR1 is a tough workout.
Once you start doing 2x20 workouts between 95 and 100% of FTP, those aren't trivial workouts.


2014-03-11 11:57 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by trisuppo

Scott71 - Agree, Week 10 Threshold 1 felt tougher than it should have. If not for the group accountability I would have cut the 2nd 20' short. I ended up turning it into 2x20' at ~99% FTP. That's where the cadence and gearing felt comfortable.




Mitch, how did your HR compare to your HR during the 20' test ?

I did the 2x20 this AM. I was feeling brave (stupid) so I did them at 100%. The first one was ok, the 2nd required some serious mind games.My HR was 10 beats lower than LTHR.



Today:

#1 @ 221 Watts and Avg HR 163
#2 @ 221 Watts and Avg HR 165

vs.

20' Power Test @ 243 Watts and Avg HR 173.

I have my LTHR threshold pegged (estimate) @ 175

Very similar results for me as you. That 1st interval @ 99% I was feeling great. The 2nd one I had to force myself to keep going.
2014-03-11 12:28 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 10

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by kcarroll And week 10 THR 1 is done. It wasn't too bad.
That is a very good sign because THR1 is a tough workout. Once you start doing 2x20 workouts between 95 and 100% of FTP, those aren't trivial workouts.

I did Week 10, Threshold 1 this morning too and for the first time ever, the 20 minute intervals weren't soul crushing!  They actually weren't too bad.  I'm not sure if it's because I didn't ride over the weekend (was out of town -- ran a lot though) or if it's because I finally told my brain to shut up and just rode.

I was pretty pleased with the effort on this ride and hoping to make it past my fear of long intervals finally

2014-03-11 1:18 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by kcarroll And week 10 THR 1 is done. It wasn't too bad.
That is a very good sign because THR1 is a tough workout. Once you start doing 2x20 workouts between 95 and 100% of FTP, those aren't trivial workouts.

I did Week 10, Threshold 1 this morning too and for the first time ever, the 20 minute intervals weren't soul crushing!  They actually weren't too bad.  I'm not sure if it's because I didn't ride over the weekend (was out of town -- ran a lot though) or if it's because I finally told my brain to shut up and just rode.

I was pretty pleased with the effort on this ride and hoping to make it past my fear of long intervals finally




"Shut up legs! Do what I tell you to do" - Jens Voigt
2014-03-11 2:28 PM
in reply to: trisuppo

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Subject: RE: Week 10
My youngest overheard my husband telling this to me once, so at my race he stood there and yelled "SHUT UP, YEGS!" at the finish line. It's my favorite mantra when the going gets tough.
2014-03-11 3:50 PM
in reply to: kcarroll

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Subject: RE: Week 10

Originally posted by kcarroll

Jason, what is your training like (other than the obvious: more biking) now that you're focusing on bike racing vs tri's. 

Funny because the mantra for bike training for triathlons is "mostly hard, sometimes easy."  Well...when you ride everyday, and lots of volume, you quickly realize that the mantra flips a bit in that you have to incorporate more easy rides to make your hard rides count.  Sure, you can get away with one or two big volume bike weeks where you try to ride hard most of the time, but it won't last long.  I learned the hard way.  

My training involves a lot of commuting M-F, so sometimes I tack on miles on the way home.  But in general, no real workout plan like you guys are doing on the trainer.  I've been riding long enough where I sort of know what route/efforts I pick will give me the type of workout I want, and what type of TSS it will give me at the end.  With bike racing you tend to focus a little more on VO2 max efforts, but actually most of my key races are sustained hill climbs so tri training isn't that much different.  A crit racer would likely have a different focus.

 



2014-03-12 5:17 AM
in reply to: RunningJoke

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Originally posted by RunningJoke

My youngest overheard my husband telling this to me once, so at my race he stood there and yelled "SHUT UP, YEGS!" at the finish line. It's my favorite mantra when the going gets tough.



Don't teach this one to your youngest, but my favorite is what Udo Bölts screamed to teammate Jan Ulrich during the Tour de France

"Quäl Dich, Du Sau!"

You will get various translations but my German work colleagues say "Suffer you bastard" is probably the closest to what was meant.
2014-03-12 5:44 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by RunningJokeMy youngest overheard my husband telling this to me once, so at my race he stood there and yelled "SHUT UP, YEGS!" at the finish line. It's my favorite mantra when the going gets tough.
Don't teach this one to your youngest, but my favorite is what Udo Bölts screamed to teammate Jan Ulrich during the Tour de France"Quäl Dich, Du Sau!"You will get various translations but my German work colleagues say "Suffer you bastard" is probably the closest to what was meant.
Why do I get the feeling this is what you & Shane are saying to us as you put these workouts out there!

I had some not so nice words during the VO2 workout the other night. Yes, the "easier" VO2 of the two. I failed to see the 2nd set of 5X1:00.

Today's run brought to you by **fatigue** =\

2014-03-12 9:31 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Week 10
Week 10 THR-1 finished last night and it went well. As I started and looked at the two 20s coming up I was a bit concerned but the ride felt a lot better than expected.

Great to see those race results, congratulations to you both! Nice job. Thanks for posting the files and race reports as well, nice to get a feel for what the races are like.



Attachments
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cdkayak-2014-03-11-bt-power-week-10-thr-1-820808.tcx (2129KB - 6 downloads)
2014-03-12 4:51 PM
in reply to: cdkayak


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Subject: RE: Week 10
Threshold 2 week 10 done.

Another tough workout, but much better than the 2 x 20. Tough week overall across all 3 sports and I am feeling the carryover to these workouts. One thing I did notice for the 2 x 20, is that I kept my cadence much higher than normal. The power was where I needed it to be, so I just stuck with it, but I think if I had stayed with my normal low 70s for that workout, I would have been better off. Either way, I guess its not bad to switch things up every now and then.

Goal for the 5 x 5min, 1 min RI, was 297. Got 302, 297,297,297, and 300. And 1 minute is not a rest interval, it's a tease!!

File attached.



(TH2wk10.png)



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activity_459936868.tcx (576KB - 3 downloads)
TH2wk10.png (87KB - 5 downloads)
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