Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. (Page 62)

Originally posted by marcag



Don't teach this one to your youngest, but my favorite is what Udo Bölts screamed to teammate Jan Ulrich during the Tour de France

"Quäl Dich, Du Sau!"

You will get various translations but my German work colleagues say "Suffer you bastard" is probably the closest to what was meant.

Originally posted by trisuppo
Somehow I tacked on an extra 30" interval at the end.

Originally posted by reecealan

Thinking about tryiing out a road race on Sunday. Attached is map. I think it's 4-5 laps. Maybe 35 miles or so. NIce little climb at end of each lap. I can sign up for 40+ masters or Cat 5. Which one? I'm thinking 40+ might have more experienced riders which is what I would prefer. I'm thinking CAT 5 might have rookies and higher potential for crash.

I've never done a road race but have ridden in group rides in a pace line.

My last test results were 4.4 w/kg for 5' test and 4.1 w/kg for 20' test so in Coggan's chart that's bottom of Cat2, top of Cat3.

Strategy ideas? I really just want the experience and won't take chanches with cornering etc. but if I'm in it at the end I WILL go for a podium.

I might do a group ride Saturday for 40-50 miles so I may show up "untapered" so to speak.

I was thinking of heading to the start line with my aerohelmet on as sort of a prank, LOL

Originally posted by JAYCT

I agree with Marc on the points he has made. I'm by no means an expert, but have spent quite a bit of time reviewing numbers and power profiles etc and done a couple of races. I will post a couple of thoughts that I think might be helpful. I would definitely say to go for it.

A note on power. I would say that based on my experience the past few years, if you are basically at the front on the bike in every local triathlon you do (like top 5 out of 300 people or so), then you are around cat 3 power profile. For bigger races, think Ironman brand events with tons of good competition, you can change that to maybe top 5-10% for your bike split or so. This is just ballpark.

Another major aspect are the different power zones, recovery time, handling skills and tactics as you know (tactics and skill do a lot for results). Having big 30" - 5' power is really important.

A lot of triathletes are in time trial mode and that will get you nowhere in a hurry usually. It helps to make it easy to sit in if you have a good threshold, but the ability to respond to attacks and recovery quickly is really important. Never give anyone a free ride. If you find yourself at the front of the race towing the field, just sit up and let someone takeover, unless you are in a break or chasing to bridge a gap. A decent FTP helps save your energy for the serious efforts because it will make it pretty easy for you to sit in the pack at an effort that isn't really taxing you that badly. With a low FTP you are screwed because you use up all your energy and even if you are a good sprinter, you aren't fresh enough to use it. I think Shane's program here will have set you up pretty well since he includes work above threshold as well and changed it depending on your power profile.

For the race you mentioned, I'm surprised they are letting Cat 5s into the Masters. It is usually 1-4 only and Cat 5s are on their own. Quick summary to help you decide here:

Masters - will have some absolute beasts that are probably doing the Cat 1,2,3 race later in the day and are doing this race too. Everyone is looking to add to their base this time of year and propel their fitness towards their A races. If you do this race, you may start to feel uncomfortable. Picture a sphere around your bike (like your personal space). It will be much smaller in Masters than in Cat 5. The guys are all experienced (some with 15+ years experience just racing bikes) and will be rounding turns at high speed basically shoulder to shoulder. It used to make me uncomfortable until I rode with some experienced guys in a tight pack repeatedly (I'm still not comfortable to be honest).

Cat 5 - will have a big mix of people. Some like you who have fitness but just haven't done enough races to get out of Cat 5 and some who are slow and will be in the back half or slipping off the back pretty quickly once you guys hit the first hill at the end of the lap. There will be other beasts that are 24 years old, just started racing and will be Cat 2/3 by end of summer once they race every weekend and smash there way through. A lot of guys will be squirely and you just need to stay alert. My instinct is to always go to the front few rows and never be in the back half of the pack where it is yo-yo back in forth like an accordian as the pack responds to the surges of the front (makes your power output more choppy). Every race will have its own little dynamic.

We've done drills where we purposely ride side by side and bump into each other shoulder to shoulder. You can't be afraid of contact (don't seek it out, but don't over react either....rubbins racin). In that crit I just did, I was in a situation where I was sandwiched between a couple of riders and we were bumping shoulders and elbows while surging up the climb. You need to get comfortable with that and protecting your handlebars/front wheel. What happens is it becomes a battle for position and if you ease up and let what looks like a small gap form, someone will take advantage and slide right into it, next thing you know your halfway back in the pack. If you youtube a lot of videos, you will find some gems that have strategic commentary that I find very helpful (could also go to bikeforum and read up there).

I looked at the profile of that race. It is 6 laps and I can almost guarantee any moves that happen will be on that hill to finish the lap. If a break goes it will probably be formed there or around the sharp turn. You can usually tell when people are gearing up. In the Masters field you are going to see teams organizing and making moves. In the Cat 5 race mostly everyone is just scrambling. There will be some 'teams' but mostly unorganized.

Trying to think of what else, but that is just off the top of my head. I've read a lot on this recently so ask away if you have questions...I've probably read something or could point you to it.

The other Jason knows a ton about road racing I think and could chime in.

Originally posted by gsmacleod

Something that I saw this week that is interesting although I don't think it will be very useful to endurance athletes in practice is a wearable lactate monitor. I think it is interesting because currently if you want to measure blood lactate currently, you need to draw blood and analyze it at various workloads in order to plot a curve. There are issues with this method and I've seen athletes respond in many different ways during these tests and often the curve doesn't appear as expected.

With a wearable lactate analyzer, combined with GPS and/or pace for running and power for cycling, it should be possible to develop a better curve through constant analysis of lacate and workload. I think this could be very valuable to physiologists collecting data in a lab but for an average endurance athlete, I doubt there will be much benefit.

Assuming the device works and that data is at least precise, then the question becomes what are you going to do with the data to establish zones and how is this going to be better than just doing field tests for HR/pace/power that you can do with equipment you already have. Whille the device may give you a better result for LTHR and ties it to a specific pace/power/HR, when you set your zones you will still have ranges for each zone so knowing that LTHR occurs at 167bpm on the run as opposed to getting 165bpm from a field test, the end result is basically the same for training. This is further complicated by the fact that zones are basically just arbitrary lines we've drawn for convenience when prescribing training. The transition between the zones is not digital but rather analog so having a more precise number may be great in a lab but likely a very small benefit at best to any one athlete.

TTers
Workout 1 – VO2max 1
Workout 2 – Threshold 1
Workout 3 – VO2max 2

All Rounders
Workout 1 – Threshold 1
Workout 2 – VO2max 1
Workout 3 – Threshold 2 or Sweet Spot

Sprinters
Workout 1 – Threshold 1
Workout 2 – Threshold 2
Workout 3 – Sweet Spot

Long Course Race In The Near Future
Workout 1 – Threshold 1
Workout 2 – Sweet Spot
Workout 3 – Long Ride
Workout 4 (optional) – Threshold 2

VO2max 1 – 1:10:00
10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP
5x5s all out, 55s spin 60% FTP
5:00 spin 60% FTP
5x4:00>108% FTP (hard), 2:30 60% FTP
2:30 spin 60% FTP
10:00 at 98% FTP
5:00 spin <60% FTP

VO2max 2 – 1:05:00
10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP
5:00 at FTP
5:00 spin 60% FTP
4x3:00 at 105% (hard) FTP, 3:00 60% FTP
6:00 at <60% FTP
10:00 at 98% FTP
5:00 at <60% FTP

Threshold 1 – 1:15:00
10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP
5x30s >105% FTP, 30s 60% FTP
5:00 60% FTP
2x15:00 at 98% FTP, 5:00 60% FTP
10:00 at 99% FTP
5:00 60% FTP

Threshold 2 – 1:10:00
10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP
5:00 at 102% FTP
5:00 60% FTP
6x5:00 at 98% FTP, 1:40 60% FTP
5:00 60% FTP
5:00 at 102% FTP
5:00 60% FTP

Sweet Spot – 1:45:00
10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP
5x30s >105% (hard) FTP, 30s 60p FTP
5:00 60% FTP
2x30:00 at 89% FTP, 2:30 at 60% FTP
5:00 60% FTP
10:00 at FTP
5:00 <60% FTP

Long Ride – 3:30:00
10:00 spin build to 65% of FTP
5x15s all out, 50s 60% FTP
5:00 65% FTP
3x{
5:00 FTP
25:00 80% FTP
10:00 at 90% FTP
5:00 at 95% FTP
10:00 at 80% FTP
5:00 60%FTP}
10:00 60% FTP

Shane

Originally posted by gsmacleod

Something that I saw this week that is interesting although I don't think it will be very useful to endurance athletes in practice is a wearable lactate monitor. I think it is interesting because currently if you want to measure blood lactate currently, you need to draw blood and analyze it at various workloads in order to plot a curve. There are issues with this method and I've seen athletes respond in many different ways during these tests and often the curve doesn't appear as expected.

With a wearable lactate analyzer, combined with GPS and/or pace for running and power for cycling, it should be possible to develop a better curve through constant analysis of lacate and workload. I think this could be very valuable to physiologists collecting data in a lab but for an average endurance athlete, I doubt there will be much benefit.

Assuming the device works and that data is at least precise, then the question becomes what are you going to do with the data to establish zones and how is this going to be better than just doing field tests for HR/pace/power that you can do with equipment you already have. Whille the device may give you a better result for LTHR and ties it to a specific pace/power/HR, when you set your zones you will still have ranges for each zone so knowing that LTHR occurs at 167bpm on the run as opposed to getting 165bpm from a field test, the end result is basically the same for training. This is further complicated by the fact that zones are basically just arbitrary lines we've drawn for convenience when prescribing training. The transition between the zones is not digital but rather analog so having a more precise number may be great in a lab but likely a very small benefit at best to any one athlete.