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SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! (Page 65)
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 2014-04-22 9:22 AM in reply to: Asalzwed |
Elite  3779      Ontario |  Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!Originally posted by Asalzwed I was sick yesterday  The entire race was a struggle but I finished! Was a good exercise in modifying goals on the fly! Sorry to see that you were sick. I'm sure it wasn't the time you were hoping for, but a 3:18 is a smashing time all things considered. Congrats on getting through the day with a still impressive time. |
| 2014-04-22 9:25 AM in reply to: Rudedog55 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by Fred D my personal opinion is that you should not have any difference in power related to road or TT bike. The bikes should have virtually the same fit if done properly and the only thing that changes is that you are rotated forward of the bottom bracket but your angles should be all the same on your TT bike versus road. While that may lend to some slightly different small muscle usage, the large power producing muscles are still your main source of power. I have discussed this with many people, that the Tri fit is not a magic fit, but a good fit on a TT bike allows you to produce less power at the same relative speed or more speed at similar power, due to increases in aerodynamic efficiency not because of a position change. make sense?? thoughts?? So dusted off the Shiv yesterday and rode it yesterday and today. I was very pleased that I could hold very decent watts both in aero and on the horns. I guess all that trainer work might have actually meant something. *I* think it also proves that riding the road bike on the trainer and in spring is not a bad move, and that much translates to aero position fitness. Coaching might be helping as well.......... Rudy - isn't the aerodynamic efficiency a result of the position change? |
| 2014-04-22 9:44 AM in reply to: Asalzwed |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by Asalzwed I was sick yesterday The entire race was a struggle but I finished! Was a good exercise in modifying goals on the fly! WOOT! Awesome race, oh fleet footed one - especially considering the circumstances. Sorry you had to deal with adversity on race day, but from the times alone, I would not have known it didn't go to plan! That says something, for sure... Way to tough it out and modify where needed. Looking forward to the RR! (oh, and my daughter was channeling you in Montreal the other day - insisted we get poutine. Matt |
)| 2014-04-22 9:49 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
Pro 4528 Norwalk, Connecticut | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by Fred D my personal opinion is that you should not have any difference in power related to road or TT bike. The bikes should have virtually the same fit if done properly and the only thing that changes is that you are rotated forward of the bottom bracket but your angles should be all the same on your TT bike versus road. While that may lend to some slightly different small muscle usage, the large power producing muscles are still your main source of power. I have discussed this with many people, that the Tri fit is not a magic fit, but a good fit on a TT bike allows you to produce less power at the same relative speed or more speed at similar power, due to increases in aerodynamic efficiency not because of a position change. make sense?? thoughts?? So dusted off the Shiv yesterday and rode it yesterday and today. I was very pleased that I could hold very decent watts both in aero and on the horns. I guess all that trainer work might have actually meant something. *I* think it also proves that riding the road bike on the trainer and in spring is not a bad move, and that much translates to aero position fitness. Coaching might be helping as well.......... Rudy - isn't the aerodynamic efficiency a result of the position change? Neil, i guess that would depend on how you define position. While you are in a different position while in aero, all critical angles of your body remain the same along an axis centered on your hips, or should, from road to TT. So your body is in the same position, on a axis on the bike based on your hips. it is hard to explain, but imagine sitting at your desk, arms bent at 90* at the elbows, then rotate the entire desk, chair etc forward on a steel rod through your hips, you have maintained the same position, but it becomes more aero because of a reduction in frontal area. At least that is my take on it. For the record, all critical measurements on my TT bike and road bike are identical also, done on purpose, including crank length. make sense?? |
| 2014-04-22 12:36 PM in reply to: Rudedog55 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by GoFaster Neil, i guess that would depend on how you define position. While you are in a different position while in aero, all critical angles of your body remain the same along an axis centered on your hips, or should, from road to TT. So your body is in the same position, on a axis on the bike based on your hips. it is hard to explain, but imagine sitting at your desk, arms bent at 90* at the elbows, then rotate the entire desk, chair etc forward on a steel rod through your hips, you have maintained the same position, but it becomes more aero because of a reduction in frontal area. At least that is my take on it. For the record, all critical measurements on my TT bike and road bike are identical also, done on purpose, including crank length. make sense?? Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by Fred D my personal opinion is that you should not have any difference in power related to road or TT bike. The bikes should have virtually the same fit if done properly and the only thing that changes is that you are rotated forward of the bottom bracket but your angles should be all the same on your TT bike versus road. While that may lend to some slightly different small muscle usage, the large power producing muscles are still your main source of power. I have discussed this with many people, that the Tri fit is not a magic fit, but a good fit on a TT bike allows you to produce less power at the same relative speed or more speed at similar power, due to increases in aerodynamic efficiency not because of a position change. make sense?? thoughts?? So dusted off the Shiv yesterday and rode it yesterday and today. I was very pleased that I could hold very decent watts both in aero and on the horns. I guess all that trainer work might have actually meant something. *I* think it also proves that riding the road bike on the trainer and in spring is not a bad move, and that much translates to aero position fitness. Coaching might be helping as well.......... Rudy - isn't the aerodynamic efficiency a result of the position change? Don't some of the angles have to change though as you rotate forward? I get what you're saying, but doesn't the hip angle naturally close a bit in an aero position? |
| 2014-04-22 12:53 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by GoFaster Neil, i guess that would depend on how you define position. While you are in a different position while in aero, all critical angles of your body remain the same along an axis centered on your hips, or should, from road to TT. So your body is in the same position, on a axis on the bike based on your hips. it is hard to explain, but imagine sitting at your desk, arms bent at 90* at the elbows, then rotate the entire desk, chair etc forward on a steel rod through your hips, you have maintained the same position, but it becomes more aero because of a reduction in frontal area. At least that is my take on it. For the record, all critical measurements on my TT bike and road bike are identical also, done on purpose, including crank length. make sense?? Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by Fred D my personal opinion is that you should not have any difference in power related to road or TT bike. The bikes should have virtually the same fit if done properly and the only thing that changes is that you are rotated forward of the bottom bracket but your angles should be all the same on your TT bike versus road. While that may lend to some slightly different small muscle usage, the large power producing muscles are still your main source of power. I have discussed this with many people, that the Tri fit is not a magic fit, but a good fit on a TT bike allows you to produce less power at the same relative speed or more speed at similar power, due to increases in aerodynamic efficiency not because of a position change. make sense?? thoughts?? So dusted off the Shiv yesterday and rode it yesterday and today. I was very pleased that I could hold very decent watts both in aero and on the horns. I guess all that trainer work might have actually meant something. *I* think it also proves that riding the road bike on the trainer and in spring is not a bad move, and that much translates to aero position fitness. Coaching might be helping as well.......... Rudy - isn't the aerodynamic efficiency a result of the position change? Don't some of the angles have to change though as you rotate forward? I get what you're saying, but doesn't the hip angle naturally close a bit in an aero position? Neil - compared to what other position? Compared to a proper road position, no - take a read of Rapp's article if you haven't - he really does spell it out fairly clearly. |
| 2014-04-22 2:14 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
Pro 4528 Norwalk, Connecticut | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Don't some of the angles have to change though as you rotate forward? I get what you're saying, but doesn't the hip angle naturally close a bit in an aero position? No, because you are moving over top or around the bottom bracket, not just forward of it if done properly. Otherwise, yes, your hips have to close to get the reach to the bars. Hence why road bikes use the forward seat post etc. I think i see what you are asking though, everyone believes that the position is based on bottom bracket location, in reality it is based on where your hips are in relation to the bottom bracket. as you go lower in the front, you should be going forward of the bracket maintaining hip angle. Now your deflection on the crank naturally changes, you are kinda pushing more towards the rear of the bike, but in reality you are still using the same muscles that you would on your road bike, just on a different plane. Rappstar nails it on his blog there that Rusty linked. Its why riding on the horns of an aerobar suck so bad. No keep in mind, That does not apply to all aerobar setups. I remember shimano and a few others making the pro missle, and the way they combatted that issue was by lowering the bulls significantly below the plane of the aero extensions, so it would be a more natural feeling and less change in hip angle going from horns to aero. i bet i totally confused the schit outa you now, lol |
| 2014-04-22 2:22 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by Rudedog55 Don't some of the angles have to change though as you rotate forward? I get what you're saying, but doesn't the hip angle naturally close a bit in an aero position? This is the bar I use and is exactly why I can get away with using just the tri bike for everything. With bent elbows when up and a little moving on the seat when down there isn't much difference in the angles from pursuit to aero. And it's the Missile Drop version specifically. They also have a flat version which is ... well ... flat. The more commonly seen Missle EVO is somewhere between (Crowie uses this one). Edited by brigby1 2014-04-22 2:22 PM |
| 2014-04-22 3:43 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by Rudedog55 Don't some of the angles have to change though as you rotate forward? I get what you're saying, but doesn't the hip angle naturally close a bit in an aero position? This is the bar I use and is exactly why I can get away with using just the tri bike for everything. With bent elbows when up and a little moving on the seat when down there isn't much difference in the angles from pursuit to aero. And it's the Missile Drop version specifically. They also have a flat version which is ... well ... flat. The more commonly seen Missle EVO is somewhere between (Crowie uses this one). And that is also one of the (several) reasons Slowman argues for the new pedestal systems than actually completely separate the elbow contact points/extensions from the pursuit base bar. Not only does it allow you to get rid of the stem spacers (whoo-hoo, Slowtwitch approved!) but it also allows you to more comfortably maintain a similar hip angle when in the pursuits without having to bend your elbows all crazy-like. I have felt's version on my new bike, and it is crazy-good, and so obvious. Not sure why it took so long to figure out. The Felt base bar features a downward arc to the bullhorns, but is designed so that you can flip it over so that they arc up, effectively raising the horns a little higher, again negating the need for stem spacers should you for some reason have to pedestal the heck out of it to get the pads at the right height. |
| 2014-04-22 6:30 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by Rudedog55 Don't some of the angles have to change though as you rotate forward? I get what you're saying, but doesn't the hip angle naturally close a bit in an aero position? This is the bar I use and is exactly why I can get away with using just the tri bike for everything. With bent elbows when up and a little moving on the seat when down there isn't much difference in the angles from pursuit to aero. And it's the Missile Drop version specifically. They also have a flat version which is ... well ... flat. The more commonly seen Missle EVO is somewhere between (Crowie uses this one). And that is also one of the (several) reasons Slowman argues for the new pedestal systems than actually completely separate the elbow contact points/extensions from the pursuit base bar. Not only does it allow you to get rid of the stem spacers (whoo-hoo, Slowtwitch approved!) but it also allows you to more comfortably maintain a similar hip angle when in the pursuits without having to bend your elbows all crazy-like. I have felt's version on my new bike, and it is crazy-good, and so obvious. Not sure why it took so long to figure out. The Felt base bar features a downward arc to the bullhorns, but is designed so that you can flip it over so that they arc up, effectively raising the horns a little higher, again negating the need for stem spacers should you for some reason have to pedestal the heck out of it to get the pads at the right height. Yeah, I would really like that too, but had to go the drop route as so many bikes now have such high stacks there really isn't anywhere to go down more with the base bar attachment. |
| 2014-04-23 8:01 AM in reply to: TankBoy |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by TankBoy Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by GoFaster Neil, i guess that would depend on how you define position. While you are in a different position while in aero, all critical angles of your body remain the same along an axis centered on your hips, or should, from road to TT. So your body is in the same position, on a axis on the bike based on your hips. it is hard to explain, but imagine sitting at your desk, arms bent at 90* at the elbows, then rotate the entire desk, chair etc forward on a steel rod through your hips, you have maintained the same position, but it becomes more aero because of a reduction in frontal area. At least that is my take on it. For the record, all critical measurements on my TT bike and road bike are identical also, done on purpose, including crank length. make sense?? Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by Fred D my personal opinion is that you should not have any difference in power related to road or TT bike. The bikes should have virtually the same fit if done properly and the only thing that changes is that you are rotated forward of the bottom bracket but your angles should be all the same on your TT bike versus road. While that may lend to some slightly different small muscle usage, the large power producing muscles are still your main source of power. I have discussed this with many people, that the Tri fit is not a magic fit, but a good fit on a TT bike allows you to produce less power at the same relative speed or more speed at similar power, due to increases in aerodynamic efficiency not because of a position change. make sense?? thoughts?? So dusted off the Shiv yesterday and rode it yesterday and today. I was very pleased that I could hold very decent watts both in aero and on the horns. I guess all that trainer work might have actually meant something. *I* think it also proves that riding the road bike on the trainer and in spring is not a bad move, and that much translates to aero position fitness. Coaching might be helping as well.......... Rudy - isn't the aerodynamic efficiency a result of the position change? Don't some of the angles have to change though as you rotate forward? I get what you're saying, but doesn't the hip angle naturally close a bit in an aero position? Neil - compared to what other position? Compared to a proper road position, no - take a read of Rapp's article if you haven't - he really does spell it out fairly clearly. I remember Rapp talking about riding your road bike more than the tri bike - if the positions were setup the same - is that the article you're talking about? |
| 2014-04-23 8:14 AM in reply to: TankBoy |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Neil, this one from a few posts back up. Originally posted by TankBoy Rudy and Fred - that mirrors my own personal experience as well. If I am on the trainer, I am on my road bike, and a lot of my road riding is on my road bike. I really only do race-specific rides and intervals on the TT bike. I am fortunate (I guess?) in that I am able to move between the two with no problem and am extremely comfortable on both - On the road bike I am almost always in the drops and on the TT bike I am always in the aerobars. Like you said, my fit is virtually the same (intentionally) between these two positions, just rotated around the BB. We probably all agree that Jordan Rapp is fairly smart about such things and he wrote a really great post about it a while back. Here is the link for those that haven't seen it: http://blog.rappstar.com/2014/04/why-triathletes-need-road-bike.html |
| 2014-04-23 10:02 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Pro 4528 Norwalk, Connecticut | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! What i cannot figure out is why with all the new aero road bars coming out, like 3T and Enve etc, why they have not added a section to mount shorty extensions instead of having to clamp them to the bar along side the stem. It would seem like a no brainier to engineer it that way to take full advantage of the bars. Part of the reason i purchased a full aero road bike was to eliminate the TT bike from my quiver. I found that i ended up not sacrificing too much in terms of speed when i added drop bars and clip-ons to my Kestrel 4000. The Top tube was still a little short and i had to add spacers so i was not totally closed in the hips. But it did the job when asked. I was also able to ride the bike more, and since i do a majority of riding with aggressive groups, the TT bike in TT config was basically collecting dust. So i got the Cervelo S5. Since this is my last attempt at a Sub5 half, i changed the TT bike back to full TT config, but going forward, i will use the Cervelo for the short races i do with clip-ons, i already bought a spare seat post so i have a road set up and a TT set up for that bike. Hence the want/need for an aero road bar that has a space to integrate shorties, i hate clamping the vision shorties to a carbon bar. I have already done basic sketch design for it, it is really quite simple. It does add a few grams of weight to the drop bar, but really, we all know i am 200lbs, i can drink some water and go pee and lose those grams. for relevance, on the Kestrel with drop bars, i did a 1:05 Oly bike in sorry shape 15lbs overweight last September. I fully expect to break the hour mark on this course this year, on the Cervelo set up for TT |
| 2014-04-23 2:17 PM in reply to: Rudedog55 |
| Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! I have wondered the same thing and I just think it's a matter of time before we see more creative bar setups. I don't even need extensions...I would love it if I could simply attach forearm pads to the top of my bars. |
| 2014-04-23 7:35 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by brigby1 Neil, this one from a few posts back up. Originally posted by TankBoy Rudy and Fred - that mirrors my own personal experience as well. If I am on the trainer, I am on my road bike, and a lot of my road riding is on my road bike. I really only do race-specific rides and intervals on the TT bike. I am fortunate (I guess?) in that I am able to move between the two with no problem and am extremely comfortable on both - On the road bike I am almost always in the drops and on the TT bike I am always in the aerobars. Like you said, my fit is virtually the same (intentionally) between these two positions, just rotated around the BB. We probably all agree that Jordan Rapp is fairly smart about such things and he wrote a really great post about it a while back. Here is the link for those that haven't seen it: http://blog.rappstar.com/2014/04/why-triathletes-need-road-bike.html Good to see that I'm paying full attention... |
| 2014-04-23 8:38 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! I think there are a couple people in here who have the Biospeed Aerus / Swift Ochrana bike bag, right? I think I must be dense, but I'm trying to figure out where you attach the quick release skewers for the fork and rear drop-outs. I suspect you do not just attach them to the bike and then have them sit directly on the foam...because if that were the case, why bother with the skewers? Feel like I'm missing something....help?? |
| 2014-04-23 10:52 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by axteraa How has the weekend been for everyone? Matt is in Paris so presumably he's enjoying himself! My last week was pretty weak on the bike (1 workout) and swim (zippo) side of things due to some travel for work but I ran every day and hit 70 km for the week. I'm pretty sure I've never done that before. I reckon you're going to have a great HM in a few weeks Arend. I got in just over 18km today and I figure that + a previous long run will be all I can put together before racing in a couple of weeks. I'm very unsure of how to approach the race itself since I don't know what pace to try and run. PB from 2011 was 1:33:xx and that seems way out of reach given the spotty training. I'm kind of leaning towards rolling the dice at the start of the race and setting off at a quick pace, and if I crumble, then so be it. Not the wisest approach, but my money is paid, so do I really have anything to lose? Any suggestions?? Agreed! And Neil--what's your total run volume been like (I should look at your logs, durrr ... ) spotty but still good blocks? Spotty but shorter more intense stuff? Seems to me the choice is between doing the best you can do ON THAT DAY, according to WHAT YOU'VE DONE. Personally, I think you may surprise yourself, and you can always pick it up in the latter half. But if you don't mind making it a possible "throwaway" race, nothing wrong with going for broke at the outset, unless you've had any niggles or difficulties with strains/injuries. My weekend: I got hitched and the honeymoon was a destination tri. BEST WEDDING AND TRIP EVER but I am seriously tired! |
| 2014-04-23 10:59 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
Melon Presser 52116 | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Asalzwed I was sick yesterday The entire race was a struggle but I finished! Was a good exercise in modifying goals on the fly! Sorry to see that you were sick. I'm sure it wasn't the time you were hoping for, but a 3:18 is a smashing time all things considered. Congrats on getting through the day with a still impressive time. Super yes and again SUPER CONGRATS SALTY!!! Your super solid training isn't going to disappear, either. That base is firm. When you're ready/want to, peak again and the results will be stunning. |
| 2014-04-24 8:06 AM in reply to: IndoIronYanti |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by IndoIronYanti Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by axteraa How has the weekend been for everyone? Matt is in Paris so presumably he's enjoying himself! My last week was pretty weak on the bike (1 workout) and swim (zippo) side of things due to some travel for work but I ran every day and hit 70 km for the week. I'm pretty sure I've never done that before. I reckon you're going to have a great HM in a few weeks Arend. I got in just over 18km today and I figure that + a previous long run will be all I can put together before racing in a couple of weeks. I'm very unsure of how to approach the race itself since I don't know what pace to try and run. PB from 2011 was 1:33:xx and that seems way out of reach given the spotty training. I'm kind of leaning towards rolling the dice at the start of the race and setting off at a quick pace, and if I crumble, then so be it. Not the wisest approach, but my money is paid, so do I really have anything to lose? Any suggestions?? Agreed! And Neil--what's your total run volume been like (I should look at your logs, durrr ... ) spotty but still good blocks? Spotty but shorter more intense stuff? Seems to me the choice is between doing the best you can do ON THAT DAY, according to WHAT YOU'VE DONE. Personally, I think you may surprise yourself, and you can always pick it up in the latter half. But if you don't mind making it a possible "throwaway" race, nothing wrong with going for broke at the outset, unless you've had any niggles or difficulties with strains/injuries. My weekend: I got hitched and the honeymoon was a destination tri. BEST WEDDING AND TRIP EVER but I am seriously tired! Yanti - a big congrats on the wedding!! Thanks for the thoughts. I went back and looked at my logs, and the interesting part is that comparing my running from 3 years ago (Jan-May) to now, I've actually increased the frequency of runs going from 3 runs to 4 runs a week, and overall volume was actually higher until I really hit the wall and things fell apart for a couple of weeks. What's missing is the intensity. I simply haven't been running anywhere near race pace, with most runs being easier and just some longer intervals thrown into the long runs, but again, not as fast as race pace. I have a couple of key workouts this week, and the one day has me running more at race pace for the intervals, so I'll see how it goes. I am leaning towards just going for broke on the day. I wanted to be able to pace off a race bunny but they only offer them for a 1:30 or the next time is 1:45. If I feel decent after today's workout then I'll line up with the 1:30 bunny and see where it takes me. |
| 2014-04-24 9:41 AM in reply to: IndoIronYanti |
Pro 4528 Norwalk, Connecticut | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by IndoIronYanti My weekend: I got hitched and the honeymoon was a destination tri. BEST WEDDING AND TRIP EVER but I am seriously tired! if i didnt see the post on facebook i would have never believed it!!!! CONGRATS and HUGE {{{{{{{MELONPRESSES}}}}}}} |
| 2014-04-24 10:39 AM in reply to: IndoIronYanti |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by IndoIronYanti Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by axteraa How has the weekend been for everyone? Matt is in Paris so presumably he's enjoying himself! My last week was pretty weak on the bike (1 workout) and swim (zippo) side of things due to some travel for work but I ran every day and hit 70 km for the week. I'm pretty sure I've never done that before. I reckon you're going to have a great HM in a few weeks Arend. I got in just over 18km today and I figure that + a previous long run will be all I can put together before racing in a couple of weeks. I'm very unsure of how to approach the race itself since I don't know what pace to try and run. PB from 2011 was 1:33:xx and that seems way out of reach given the spotty training. I'm kind of leaning towards rolling the dice at the start of the race and setting off at a quick pace, and if I crumble, then so be it. Not the wisest approach, but my money is paid, so do I really have anything to lose? Any suggestions?? My weekend: I got hitched and the honeymoon was a destination tri. BEST WEDDING AND TRIP EVER but I am seriously tired! Sincere congratulations on the nuptials, Yanti - best wishes for a (continued!) lifetime of joy and happiness. And destination triathlon honeymoon - what could be better than that? |
| 2014-04-24 10:51 AM in reply to: GoFaster |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by axteraa How has the weekend been for everyone? Matt is in Paris so presumably he's enjoying himself! My last week was pretty weak on the bike (1 workout) and swim (zippo) side of things due to some travel for work but I ran every day and hit 70 km for the week. I'm pretty sure I've never done that before. I reckon you're going to have a great HM in a few weeks Arend. I got in just over 18km today and I figure that + a previous long run will be all I can put together before racing in a couple of weeks. I'm very unsure of how to approach the race itself since I don't know what pace to try and run. PB from 2011 was 1:33:xx and that seems way out of reach given the spotty training. I'm kind of leaning towards rolling the dice at the start of the race and setting off at a quick pace, and if I crumble, then so be it. Not the wisest approach, but my money is paid, so do I really have anything to lose? Any suggestions?? Sorry Neil - I missed this in the excitement of tracking Adrienne. Yeah, it is honestly the worst advice ever, but I would probably go for broke as well if I were in that situation. I have found the punishment that sort of strategy induces to serve as a strange sort of post race"get-your-sh*t-together-Rusty" motivator. The better advice (that again I probably wouldn't listen to myself) is to race the race you are actually trained to race and don't worry about your previous PR. Take a long view - use this as a building block race toward a PR, not one in which you shell yourself for the next couple of weeks by shooting for a PR when you are undertrained for it. You haven't said anything about the course profile, but generally analytics will show that an even or slightly negative effort race will yield the best results if you just time trial it and don't get caught in a tactical race with others. |
| 2014-04-24 11:17 AM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 945 South Windsor, CT | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by TankBoy Sorry Neil - I missed this in the excitement of tracking Adrienne. Yeah, it is honestly the worst advice ever, but I would probably go for broke as well if I were in that situation. I have found the punishment that sort of strategy induces to serve as a strange sort of post race"get-your-sh*t-together-Rusty" motivator. The better advice (that again I probably wouldn't listen to myself) is to race the race you are actually trained to race and don't worry about your previous PR. Take a long view - use this as a building block race toward a PR, not one in which you shell yourself for the next couple of weeks by shooting for a PR when you are undertrained for it. You haven't said anything about the course profile, but generally analytics will show that an even or slightly negative effort race will yield the best results if you just time trial it and don't get caught in a tactical race with others. Neil- I'm in total agreement that you should attempt to race the *best* race you can on race day, based on the current fitness and most recent training block. The uncontrolled variables are always: weather, illness etc, but that doesn't mean you should throw away all goals on race day nor does it mean that you can unrealistically shoot for the moon and expect to PR when the training has been inadequate or a weather/illness curveball make it less than likely. I like taking the long view that using each race as a building block in the big scheme of things to help improve an athlete closer to higher goals. Best pacing is always an individual thing and the best pacing approach for each individual to have a successful race is always an interesting discussion. Going out faster than goal and holding on has never been anything less than torture for me...from one mile to the marathon, in my personal experiences, FWIW. I would favor going out with the 1:45 pace group and turning the screws into a faster, negative split race, if you are up to it on race day. Attempting to progress to a higher fitness level in a 5K and proving you are *faster* than you think is the one time that I've ever gone out faster than when I wanted and tried to hold on. HTFU is not always the best thing to do universally....just sayin' (although 'get your sh*t together Rusty' is a fun thing for anyone to say....JK  )Edited by dtoce 2014-04-24 11:52 AM |
| 2014-04-24 11:34 AM in reply to: Fred D |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Quick tire question for the group: I think I have fairly well wrung every bit of time savings that I can out of my race-day bike & kit setup, save one little bit. When I purchased my new wheel set (Enve 6.7s) the owner of my LBS convinced me to try out 25mm tires on both the front and rear. This advice was based on a conversation that he supposedly had with engineers at Enve. According to this conversation he said that it was their findings that while yes, the wheels are slightly more aero with a narrower width tire, the lower rolling resistance and comfort offered by the 25mm tire would actually make it a faster setup in real-world racing. Thus far it has proven to be both fast and comfortable, but of course in the back of my mind I still wonder.... So, would you A) just roll with what I have and quit worrying about it, B) stick with common internet wisdom and switch to 23s (I have a couple of new sets already that I bought a while back on sale, so easy enough) or C) Take the time to actually RChung it? Easy enough with helmets, etc, but this would required changing tires, tubes (latex) etc between tests. Would the delta between the two setups be worth the effort to know? |
| 2014-04-24 12:09 PM in reply to: TankBoy |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Originally posted by TankBoy Quick tire question for the group: I think I have fairly well wrung every bit of time savings that I can out of my race-day bike & kit setup, save one little bit. When I purchased my new wheel set (Enve 6.7s) the owner of my LBS convinced me to try out 25mm tires on both the front and rear. This advice was based on a conversation that he supposedly had with engineers at Enve. According to this conversation he said that it was their findings that while yes, the wheels are slightly more aero with a narrower width tire, the lower rolling resistance and comfort offered by the 25mm tire would actually make it a faster setup in real-world racing. Thus far it has proven to be both fast and comfortable, but of course in the back of my mind I still wonder.... So, would you A) just roll with what I have and quit worrying about it, B) stick with common internet wisdom and switch to 23s (I have a couple of new sets already that I bought a while back on sale, so easy enough) or C) Take the time to actually RChung it? Easy enough with helmets, etc, but this would required changing tires, tubes (latex) etc between tests. Would the delta between the two setups be worth the effort to know? I assume the 25mm tire is one that has tested well? I looked quickly at the usual charts and don't see any there... |
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