Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED (Page 66)

You could always pull a Rudy....swim...destroy...run/walk finish, no point in wasting the bread and bike fitness.

see how hard you can push a IM bike, maybe you learn something

I think if you feel good you should do it!! And not just because i am doing it too - hahahaha! TWO MONTHS TODAY! AGGHHHH! As an aside, it should be a really fantastic race - even for more of the experience.  The community is super behind it and apparently the roads are in way better shape then WI - it's a great vacation spot for your family. 

And the clincher: you can have poutine afterward.

I know you're a fantastic triathlete - you can definitely do it - it's just whether or not you'll be satisfied with less than 100% effort.

Fred - even though it will be difficult, to me, it seems like you have accepted the fact that this is not your year for racing.  As long as you are mentally comfortable with that, and accept that racing will not be to your normal expectations, then I say go for it.  By the sounds of things, this is going to be an amazing event.  I just think it's sometimes easier for us to think we know how we feel, than how we really do feel.  i.e.  "Maybe I actually could have a decent performance"....rather than "let the chips fall where they may"

That make sense?

If it were me...I would keep this season fun.  Do what makes me happy and don't give a rip about what anyone else expects of me.  So in that case, I would likely hammer the bike and try and post the absolute fastest bike split possible.  Do a little 1 mile victory lap as the crowds are the biggest near the transition areas, and go get some food after turning in my chip.  Walking 10+ miles sounds like pure torture to me...especially if it's because I'm nursing an injury.  I could then be a spectator as the pros come in.  That would be fun for me.

Hi all, haven't posted in quite a while since I have been out of the tri game for the season after my shoulder surgery and being busy with work and keeping up with my other mentor group, besides not training much so I didn't have much to offer.  But I have been following this through the e-mails and since you posted a question on Musselman, I figured I would chime in.  I live near the race in the next town over and have done Musselman 3 times, and was scheduled to attempt the double mussel this year before the injury.  I have volunteered to be transition captain this year so I am looking forward to that.  Sorry to hear you won't be making it Fred!

It is a well run race put on by an organization that is run by triathletes.  Jeff Henderson, the RD, is a competitive triathlete that has a pretty good idea what the racers are looking for.  The course has some challenges, a few hills on the bike, and a few more on the run.  Finish fast, like Fred, and you can beat the heat if it is a typical July day.  Pretty good group of BT folks usually show up for either the mussleman or the mini mussel on Saturday. 

It is sold out for this year, but if you decide to come over next year Rudy, shoot me a PM and I can give you some ideas on where to stay.  If you want to bring the family and make a vacation out of it there are several of the Finger Lakes within easy commute with weekly rentals on the lake. 

Ok...as I've now seen what has gone on...and pieced things together...I had to send a PM to Ron.

Hello Ron,

First and foremost, let me say that you have done an excellent job with BT as a whole. It is certainly a special website, forum, and place for aspiring, new, and experienced triathletes to share their experiences and grow.

While I do agree that Bryan's comments were in violation of the forum guidelines, and most likely deserved a warning, forum time-out, or whatever you deem fit...I did not agree with you in the sense that his comments were a personal attack.

You said there is no such thing as a stupid question. Well...in an ideal world, yes. But this is the real world, and people do ask stupid questions from time to time. I'm sure you must have read at least one of GatorDeb's threads in the past couple of years. Perfect example of someone asking a silly question. Ok...her initial questions were not silly, but her refusal to take good advice, and offer her own counter theories was absolutely ridiculous. After 5 pages or so, people gave up, and just started making fun of her with sarcasm and personal jokes. Many of those threads were frozen, and for good reason. But did 20-40 users in those threads get bans?

Now, in now way am I saying that questions like what GatorDeb asked, or "when can I get a M-Dot tatoo" should never be asked...but I think that there should be more wiggle room for people to make snarky replies. It's part of the internet, and it's part of why people read the forums. To not only find the hidden gems that have very helpful information, but to find the ones that make you laugh or shake your head as well.

Ok...but back to Bryan's actual comments. His use of profanity was clearly against guidelines, but the reason why I don't think it was a personal attack is because had I seen the thread, my reply could well have been "nobody cares". Would I have been banned as well because I made a personal attack, or been let off the hook because my personal attack did not involve profanity? In the context of the question...again...a silly question at that...a "nobody cares" reply is not a personal attack...it's simply the felling that many people have, including myself, and I know many other people feel that way as well. It's not like the OP was considering doing their first sprint tri and wanted to know if the free plans on BT were sufficient, and the response was "nobody cares", or "nobody gives a ...". The same response to two different questions means two totally different things. One is the actual answer to the question, and the other is a personal attack that puts down the OP. If you want to punish Bryan, punish him for his use of profanity and simply that...but to suggest that he made a personal attack and is tearing down the BT community...I hardly agree. But that's just my opinion.

My feelings are that BT needs to be moderated, but at a certain point, we need to be adults both in the way we make comments, and the thickness of our skin in how we take comments. I looked up Bryan's most recent posts before being banned, and I think you should take a look at the thread he commented on about heel striking. The OP is a recovering alcoholic (if you follow the COJ threads) and was asking a serious question about heel striking. Bryan gave a serious and very informational answer...despite noting that this question comes up every 30 days. The OP was a true newbie (just did his first tri this past weekend), very impressionable (both as a triathlete, and recovering alcoholic) and Bryan answered his question in a very commendable manner that was not required of him given how many times he probably answered the question in the past.

I think you guys run a great site, but I just had to say something. You have sacrificed a lot to make BT what it is today, but whether you believe it or not, so has Bryan, without collecting a single penny. And to suggest that he is tearing down BT, instead of being one of the strong members who make BT what it actually is today...I just don't agree with that. Again, just my opinion.

Again, thanks for running a great site.

Jason

Fred, you look the same as you always have. 

I also sent Ron a PM about the transparency thread, which I thought was a direct attack on Bryan with no chance for him to defend himself and without any proof of the facts presented in the thread.  It is ironic that Bryan got banned for what Ron is calling an attack on the OP (he says nothing about the profanity) and it wasn't even an attack and then posts something that is not only an attack but with no way for Bryan to defend himself. 

ah, now you look different.  for a second I thought Bryan got released from prison.  lol

TSimone - 2012-06-20 5:36 AM No tri topics at the moment.  Just posting my new sig, which meetsthe 5 line limit.  A little more subtle than Fred. 

lol  took me a sec.  nice

i have a question.

we are all pretty much in training for long course or iron distance here, but mine is in regard to a sprint or Oly.

we all know my thoughts on the bike, but, for a sprint or oly, seeing we are all over trained for those distances, do you truly believe you can go too hard at that short of a distance on the bike, especially a sprint??

my take is i try to be at or above my 1hr FTP for that short of a race, and i do not believe after a 12 mile ride that it will affect a 5k significantly.

would love to hear your thoughts.

I think it depends on how often you train at that threshold.  I went into my DU pretty well trained, although I had some downtime due to taper and recovery from the HIM a couple of weeks earlier but I couldn't hold what I held the year before.  IMO it wasn't my bike that ruined my run but the fact that I was racing at a different threshold then I really trained at.  My training was perfect for me and my HIM but a bit sucky for threshold racing.  Side note, it was not my bike that ruined my run but my run ruined my run.  I don't think the bike played into it at all

I think it all comes down to how you've been training.  If you're long course racing then a significant amount of time is going to be spent well below FTP.  I'd guess most of your efforts would be closer to 75-85% FTP for the volume of your rides.

It's a timely question since I looked at my logs last night and realized most of my efforts have been more steady state.  I hopped on the trainer to do 5x4min at only 100% (vs 110%) FTP last night and suffered through it a bit - legs were not accustomed to me pushing that effort, even though I feel I'm doing quite well on the bike right now.

So in a long, round about answer - yes, I think you can overcook the Sprint, but in the weeks leading up to it if you put in some 6x4min, 2x20min, 4x10min efforts at or above FTP then I would feel better about really pushing to redline.

Just 'passing through'--hope Fred, et.al. don't mind.

Yes.  You absolutely can overcook the bike in a sprint or oly.  You are not 'overtrained' for the distance.  Each of those races is an endurance race just as much as an HIM or IM.  Of course, you can (and should) race at higher level of intensity in those shorter races.

There was an interesting thread I was pointed to recently on the other site.  While the conclusions aren't really a surprise (go too hard, too often and you fatigue faster), it can help illustrate that it takes relatively little 'too hard, too often' to cause a problem (i.e., 12 miles is plenty of time to do so).

That said, I would still aim to be as close as possible to FTP for a race that short.  And would not be afraid to go a little over at times.  Sometimes you have to push the envelope to figure out what your limits are. 

Rudy - even though my primary focus is long course this year, I have had some pretty good results (for me) at the sprint distance. I do include some very specific workouts at threshold, so this obviously helps. A little bit of my threshold work is running, but it is mostly on the bike and swim. I have found there to be a great deal of carryover to running from those workouts without beating myself to death. The biggest trick in a sprint that seems to work for me is to get warmed up REALLY well on the bike prior to the swim start - I am talking 30~45 minutes with some good threshold stuff at the end. I think that the long course training has just pushed my "warm up" period out really far. Now if I just hop on the bike and try to kill it, my legs are shot really quickly and have no run left in them. In my one good sprint this year I got a great warm-up in and was really able to push on the bike ut never really felt it on the run.

Oh - and nice to hear that you may already be coming out of retirement - I have been traveling a bit and am in the thick of it getting ready for IMLP, but I am about to jump on a plane and your race report is the first thing on my reading list.

Thanks Johnny!!!  Glad to see you post here!!

As everyone here knows, most of my bike training is roadie group ride training, surges, attacks, sprints, hammerfest type stuff. I do not generally get a lot of steady state endurance riding in. even the 3-4 hour rides get really aggressive.  I also usually get a fair amount of crit racing in.

But, i always seem to have a good run after a sprint bike, but can't seem to hit the next gear on the bike during the sprint, i do probably need a longer warm up as Rusty pointed out. 

oh well, i will see what happens on July 15th.

One thing to also keep in mind is the swim.  You can 'drill' yourself on the swim the same way you can on the bike.  And it's probably easier to do so for 'non-swimmmers' (like myself).  I know from experience that when my swim fitness is lower, it is harder for me to hit my bike targets.  The best explanation I have been able to come up with is that I probably swim at the same 'relative intensity' for a given swim distance regardless of my swim fitness.  So, when swim fitness is lower, the swim takes me longer AND I use more energy.  Theoretically, I should probably adjust my relative intensity down slightly when my fitness is lower.

The biking equivalent might be riding at the same % of FT at Eagleman and Savageman and expecting to run as well each time even though you might be off the bike in 2:20 at E-man and 3:00 at S-man.