Fred D Mentor Group Part III (Page 7)

bzgl40 - 2012-10-03 12:22 PM

I do way better in the morning.  But I am a morning person.  One thing for me is I get up and have a coffee and a piece of toast every morning and take my time waking up.  I don't workout until about an hour later.  It is the rare day that I get up and workout right away. 

tasr - 2012-10-02 8:51 AM

See what separates you and me is I would just do another 50m to make a nice even number.  Oh and of course you would smoke the holy blank out of me...........

rymac - 2012-10-02 9:12 AM

Agree with James.  I actually did a similar plan last year except all of my Barry P runs were easy and I just concentrated on increasing mileage very slowly.  As you progress through Barry P you can start inserting one (1) run at Tempo to replace a mid-range run but do not do that for awhile.  Just get accustomed to running everyday and increasing mileage safely at first and see how your body responds. 

GoFaster - 2012-10-03 11:15 AM

Jason (or anyone for that matter) do you find you suffer a bit on the harder workouts in the early am?  In the past I've had to movesome of the hard ones off till the evening, because I just can't seem to push myself first thing in the morning.  I also tend to have a higher HR (~10 bpm) in the am vs pm.

Thoughts on how I can get past this and push harder workouts in the mornings (I'll add that I've never been much of a morning person).

itsallrelative_Maine - 2012-10-03 12:15 PM [

Excellent feedback - I'll start this once I'm back from Columbus Day festivities. I've been thinking a lot about the "Monotony" calculation (someone posted a link to a blog post about it that was very helpful to me) - this approach seems to address it. I'll try this for the rest of October/beg of Nov and then ask ya'll how to adjust. Thanks!

tasr - 2012-10-03 10:24 PM

Yanti,
 
Do you have a plan?  My guess is not because of this post. I would start today with an ez run of what ever is comfortable.  Then progressively build over the next 3 weeks with a recovery week then repeat.  So in my mind it would look something like this with the last Build 2 Week 3 extending to Nov 26th then taper.
 
Example
 
Build 1
Week 1 - S/2hr B/2-3hr R/2-3hr = T/6-9hr
Week 2 - S/2hr B/4-5hr R/3-5hr = T/10-12hr
Week 3 - S/3hr B/5-7hr R/5-6hr = T/13-16hr
Recover Week - S/2hr B/3-4hr R/3-4hr = T/8-10hr ez
 
Build 2
Week 1 - S/3hr B/4-5hr R/3-5hr = T/10-13hr
Week 2 - S/3-4hr B/5-7hr R/5-6hr = T/13-17hr
Week 3 - S/3-4hr B/8-10hr R/6-8hr = T/17-22hr
Recover Week - S/2-3hr B/4-5hr R/4-5hr = T/10-13hr ez
 
I think it is important to emphasize on longer training i.e.. 1x 3-4 hour single bikes verses shorter sessions on the bike 3x1hr.  Do you follow?  Remember Build 2 Week 3 is a an extending training week. 
 
I hope my math jives. 

itsallrelative_Maine - 2012-10-04 12:23 AM

Morning Workouts - I agree that I don't think my output is as high as it "could" be in the wee hours - but it's when I've got the time, so I push through with the thought that some training is better than no training. I do find with a good warm up (20 minutes of spinning on the trainer, 10 minutes walking before starting the run) helps the quality for me drastically.

Yanti - I've never done an IM distance, so take this with a grain of salt...but I agree that your time would be best spent on the bike in longer sessions. You can easily do the swim, and you can't cram in the run training now...so focus on what you can...longer bike + shorter taper. We'll all be cheering for you regardless!

tasr - 2012-10-03 11:23 AM

"Monotony" calculation?  What is that?

 Shane had posted it.  I've seen Skiba talk about it too I think.  I'll butcher it so look into it but it has to do with the variations in your training load from week to week and how developing a plan with the least variations week to week can result in the best adaptations...I sort of look at it as being consistent and doing consistent work rather than mega weeks and whatever else...but that was my simple interpretation

 

 

acumenjay - 2012-10-02 12:40 PM

tasr - 2012-10-03 1:23 PM

"Monotony" calculation?  What is that?

TriAya - 2012-10-03 12:38 PM

Big smothering {MELON PRESS} hey, I'll throw ya a snorkel in there.

Thank you. The math jives but most importantly the concept does. I do know how to put a good training block together and the individual workouts ... really needed your input on an overall emergency plan.

Ditto on the longer bikes. That's what I did for Melbourne. People thought I was crazy for doing a bunch of 5-7 hour training rides (and other long sessions during the week) but I am damn sure that's how I got as far as I did on the bike.

As for the other commenters and input (THANK YOU THANK YOU! Line up for your melon presses, right here), I also agree on the taper (and James too). I'm going to see how things feel the closer I get, but (this is also the fifth time I've gone through ironman training, sort of) I'm pretty sure I'll be bringing things up big fairly close to the race. How close, I'll see. I definitely don't have last-minute-I-gotta-do-this-crazy-session goblins, so I'm not worried about that.

I also agree it IS about the bike. I've done around a dozen marathons (would have to count) and several of them under really awful circumstances or with zero, and I mean zero for months before running. I do understand that running a marathon off a 112-mile bike is different. However, I have absolutely no doubt that if I can get to the run, I will be fine. And yeah, the finer it will be depends on the bike.

All other opinions, comments, dire warnings and cautionary tales will continue to be taken in stride and stroke. I really appreciate it, folks.

ChrisM - 2012-10-03 1:08 PM

A first for me.  last night at masters, near the end of themain set, I am swimming along in the fast lane and BAM, I hit something.  I see stars, not sure if I pass out a little, wonder what I hit, the guy ahead of me?  An elbow from the next lane?   Nope, guy in the next lane coming off an open turn into backstroke pushes off his wall, UNDER the lane line and into my lane, where the back of his head hits my forehead, both going full speed.  Some blood, a nice bumo, some good bruising.  Being on thinners doesn't help either, as a head injury and brain bleed fall into the "definitely not good" category. 

Spent an uncomfortable night waking up often so my wife could check on me for both concussion and bleed symptoms.  Have a small but persistent headache, but everything else seems to be fine.  Neck a little jacked as my head got pushed down.  Forehead hurts to the touch.

WTF, how does someone push off into ANOTHER lane entirely???????  The guy was very apologetic, and he felt bad, but still. 

I was bummed as I had forced myself back into the fast lane and was swimming at an uncomfortable (but good) pace.  Wont be running today, just to be conservative about it

gsmacleod - 2012-10-03 1:25 PM Essentially monotony is a measure of the consistency of training stress from day to day. For an easy example, one could plan a cycling week around 700TSS and achieve that number in many different ways. What the evidence points to is that while these two weeks would have similar training stress, they would not impact the athlete the same way. High monotony week - 100TSS/day Low monotony week M - 125TSS T - 50TSS W - 150TSS Th - 25TSS F - 100TSS S - 75TSS Su - 175TSS If this approach is used over time, the athlete following the low monotony approach should make greater gains and be much less likely to suffer from overtraining or overreaching. Shane Shane

gsmacleod - 2012-10-03 1:25 PM
 
Essentially monotony is a measure of the consistency of training stress from day to day. For an easy example, one could plan a cycling week around 700TSS and achieve that number in many different ways. What the evidence points to is that while these two weeks would have similar training stress, they would not impact the athlete the same way.

High monotony week - 100TSS/day

Low monotony week

M - 125TSS
T - 50TSS
W - 150TSS
Th - 25TSS
F - 100TSS
S - 75TSS
Su - 175TSS

If this approach is used over time, the athlete following the low monotony approach should make greater gains and be much less likely to suffer from overtraining or overreaching.

Shane

tasr - 2012-10-04 1:30 AM

Ok well an emergency plan?  I think that would be just a race execution.
 
Swim -1:20-1:30 you can do that
T1 as needed and eat some calories
Bike – Take the bike cut off time from1:30race start -1hr, divide the split and that is your pace per half.  Stay up on hydration and calories.
T2 as needed and eat some calories change get comfy
Run – run/walk, HTFU and finish
 
So 17hr race?
 
1:30 swim plus T1
8hr bike cutoff after swim time -1hr=16mph pace for 112mile to make it 1hr before cutoff. btw that is to be safe per any mechanical.
7.5hr to run/walk the marathon
 
Its not pretty but should work. 
 
Once again if my math jives.  Make sure the cut time is the same.

Is that what you are looking for?  Then training should be more or even more on the bike.

 

ChrisM - 2012-10-04 1:08 AM

A first for me.  last night at masters, near the end of themain set, I am swimming along in the fast lane and BAM, I hit something.  I see stars, not sure if I pass out a little, wonder what I hit, the guy ahead of me?  An elbow from the next lane?   Nope, guy in the next lane coming off an open turn into backstroke pushes off his wall, UNDER the lane line and into my lane, where the back of his head hits my forehead, both going full speed.  Some blood, a nice bumo, some good bruising.  Being on thinners doesn't help either, as a head injury and brain bleed fall into the "definitely not good" category. 

Spent an uncomfortable night waking up often so my wife could check on me for both concussion and bleed symptoms.  Have a small but persistent headache, but everything else seems to be fine.  Neck a little jacked as my head got pushed down.  Forehead hurts to the touch.

WTF, how does someone push off into ANOTHER lane entirely???????  The guy was very apologetic, and he felt bad, but still. 

I was bummed as I had forced myself back into the fast lane and was swimming at an uncomfortable (but good) pace.  Wont be running today, just to be conservative about it

axteraa - 2012-10-03 1:50 AM

100 swim
6x25 - 1. First 10m fast, 2. Last 5m fast 
4x50 negative split 
300 swim with chute 
4x75 fins - 25m Uw, 25m Kick on back, 25m Swim with fast turnover 
2x400 - 1. Pull with buoy and band, 2. 100 kick with fins, 100 swim with fins 

3 x (100 stroke on 1:50, 50 free, 50 stroke both on :50, 100 free on 1:50) 
2 x (200 IM on 3:40, 100 free, 100 IM both on 1:50, 200 free on 3:40)

I'll post a video if I can get another one sometime.  Our pool has a no camera rule though so kinda tricky.

edited to clarify the 4x75