SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 7)

Yes to the body position, possibly.  People who have sinking hips / feet will benefit the most from a wetsuit.

But then again, freezing your butt off is going to affect your focus and form.  I'd repeat the experiment sometime when you have warmer conditions.  And time yourself on an out-and-back... like Arend said, don't 100% trust the 910 gps.

Part of me would like to pop out a sub-5 again, because all of mine were from back when I didn't know any better - back then I thought it was easy, but not so much anymore. But then the bigger part of me is not really interested in those kinds of courses. These days I like hard races, and the harder the better. And like Fred said, it is just a number - I find it difficult to compare one course to another. They almost all have their challenges and at best you can only compare a course to itself.

ETA: I just got in from Chicago and about to roll out and test my claim that I can still handle the heat. It is 95 degrees right now. Ugh.

Yeah...5 hours is just a number.  Impossible to compare course to course and even year to year on the same course. 

I'd rather get a brick in the Westernport wall than go sub 5.

Originally posted by GoFasterAbout time - I couldn't stand that user name either...(where's the red font???) I'm doing a timed mile at the track with the running group tonight. I'm going to try and run a 5:40, but may completely blow up (basically ran 6 flat a year ago my first time doing it). I'm thinking of trying to evenly pace it as 1:25 a lap. Any thoughts?

Neil, if I were really serious about it I would walk and do dynamic stretching for about 15 minutes followed by 15 or maybe even 20 minutes of easy running working up to the top of my base zone depending on how I felt. I would throw in a handful of strides at the end. Then finish my warmup with 2x400, 1st at 1:30ish (and err on letting it be a bit slower just to get a good feel for the pace) then try to nail the second one right at 1:25 after a couple of minutes of recovery. Four more minutes of walking/easy jogging recovery, and then run out at 1:23 and target a slight fade. If you are racing the group you would probably have to run it differently, but (for me anyway) I have found that running a slight fade to garner me the better TT time on the mile.

I am also in the 3 year club "whether it needs it or not." Don't know why, it has been the conventional wisdom for as long as I can remember.

Originally posted by TankBoy

Originally posted by GoFasterAbout time - I couldn't stand that user name either...(where's the red font???) I'm doing a timed mile at the track with the running group tonight. I'm going to try and run a 5:40, but may completely blow up (basically ran 6 flat a year ago my first time doing it). I'm thinking of trying to evenly pace it as 1:25 a lap. Any thoughts?

Neil, if I were really serious about it I would walk and do dynamic stretching for about 15 minutes followed by 15 or maybe even 20 minutes of easy running working up to the top of my base zone depending on how I felt. I would throw in a handful of strides at the end. Then finish my warmup with 2x400, 1st at 1:30ish (and err on letting it be a bit slower just to get a good feel for the pace) then try to nail the second one right at 1:25 after a couple of minutes of recovery. Four more minutes of walking/easy jogging recovery, and then run out at 1:23 and target a slight fade. If you are racing the group you would probably have to run it differently, but (for me anyway) I have found that running a slight fade to garner me the better TT time on the mile.

x2 on the slight fade.  If your kick at the end shows a big uptick in pace, you *probably* are leaving at least a little out there.  If your all out, turn yourself inside out kick holds your pace or is a slight increase over the last 100m, then you probably have very little left to give.  At least that's been my experience, as well.

YMMV, as some folks swear by the negative split for all running events.  I like negatives for distances I haven't run, for races that I want to finish well and not be crushed after and for certain workouts - but for a best time, the slightest of fades has produced my best times over the years... and the most pain.  

Hope you suffer well!  

Matt

So it should be fine for me target sub-5 for my first HIM, then, right?

Not sure WHAT my time will be this August, but even having a "5" handle would be pretty all-right with me.  

Good luck with it, look forward to hearing how it goes.  I am absolutely in love with my fit so far.  Have a 5 hour ride this weekend with a big climb at the beginning, a big climb at the end, and a bunch of flat in between.  Interested to see if the fit helps with my lower back issues.

My striaght faced, and sincerely honest advice for anyone's first HIM is to go easy and enjoy it.  I promise you that even with that approach, it will still be plenty hard.  Out of the three HIMs I did, I still say that I executed the first one the best (given my fitness at the time) because I took that approach.  My first race was also my fastest HIM run split...

I've been told that there's no such thing as a good bike split and a bad run.  

I hear ya', honest!

While sub-5 is not at ALL what I'm thinking, I can't help trying to figure out what the best race I could run will be - and then trying to execute that.  Not incompatible with "go easy and enjoy it," as that might be the best race I can run, if you see what I mean...  I do plan to suffer, even if I go easy - it's still many more hours than a marathon, after all!

I'm sure I'll be asking more about pacing as I get closer - and more freaked out.  

Matt Mc (hey, that's a pretty good username, as compared to mcmanusclan5!)

Thanks both for the replies.  I do think the 910 is less than accurate, at least for a single swim.  The numbers with the wetsuit are across a decent number of swims, but the non-wetsuit was just once (and cold, as you point out).  

That said, I think it's a combination of all three.  My form is only just coming together into something other than a hot mess, and the suit definitely helps keep the hips up (been thinking on this one a lot).  I'm going to continue to do non-suit swims (in the pool until it's a bit warmer!) to work on that, and then do a couple a week in the wetsuit in OW to work on race form.  I've already decided that this winter, at least in the pool, will be ALL about form (yes, including lessons - tough for a guy who grew up doing OWS in the ocean to admit that he has NO IDEA when it comes to swimming well).  

Thanks again - the perspective is very helpful!

Matt 

Thank you very much. I love your logic!

I'm nowhere near a sub-5 and not even looking for 5:XX....but I am hoping to be under 7.

And I fully intend to give it basically everything I've got on the bike.... and then walk most of the run.  Sadly, though I do think my knee is starting to get better, I have zero run training and a race that's just over four weeks away.  I'll have plenty of vineyards to enjoy on my walk!

On the positive side, if I decide to do another HIM distance race, I'm basically guaranteed a PR

I'm just gonna focus on this very positive statement!   Yay!  

So, I've lost a good 40-50# over the last two years or so, but still using the same size X Terra wetsuit.  I can feel the water sloshing around in there while swimming, there's even a pic of me at wildflower exiting the swim, holding open the wrist seal and water pouring out, LOL.  I am sure it's not ideal.   Some friend asked me if he could get in there with me on Sunday at the race, it was so loose.

So finally faced the music and got on the x terra sizing chart.  They have sort of a graduated chart based on weight/height.  Turns out I am just over into the first "Large" category.  ANd I am using an XL.  So I have to buy a new one.

Tempted to just go back to X terra but I've had a lot of problems with fingernail tears, even though I think I am careful, and seams coming undone.  But they sure meet the pocketbook requirements (especially in an IM year.....).   It's not the entry level one, the next one up (vortex?)

Anyone use anything else worth looking at that won't break the bank?  Looked a bit at the Huubs but not sure their bottom of the line model is worth it?  I hear the top of th line is sweet, but it's a lot of dough

The reason I gave this advice is because most people vastly underestimate how easy you need to ride in order to properly pace a HIM to attain "the best race I can run."  And you'll learn FAR more from your first HIM if you paced it 2-5 minutes too easy than if you paced it a little too hard and struggle on the run.

I *thought* that with much better bike fitness the last past 2 years I could start to push the bike a little bit harder and still run well.  I sort of got away with it in 2012 by running about 5 minutes slower than expected, but I didn't get away with it at all this year. 

When I do my next HIM, I'm going to ride more conservatively.  I'm just not strong enough of a runner yet to take full advantage of my strenghs in biking.

I had the Vector Pro and liked it a lot but like you got a ton of fingernail tears.  I just repaired them but ultimately what did it in was the seams starting to let go.  It lasted me 3 or 4 seasons though.

I ended up getting one of the Huubs (the middle one).  I've only had it out for one swim but I do like it a lot.  Hard to say if it's any better or worse than the Xterra though.

If you do end up going with Xterra I think I have a 60% off coupon code vs the 57% BT code if that's what you are looking at.

So, on the sub 5 hour HIM subject.  I will admit to thinking that if things go well in MT, I will be right around it but I have no intention of chasing it just for the sake of a number if it's looking unrealistic come race day.

Swim: 27 mins (half of my IM time and the fastest in my AG last year were high 26, low 27) - lots of variables here that could swing this up or down.

T1: 4:30 - about average for ppl last year with the long run from the water to the transition area

Bike: 2:40 - this one is a bit of an unknown for me.  I am loosely basing it on this chart which is a bunch of data points from the full IM last year, plotting their time against their average power w/KG - someone on ST through it together.  While I haven't gotten a specific power target from Shane yet, based on what I am seeing in the workouts he is giving me I'm thinking it will be in the 2.8-2.9 w/KG range which had people riding around 5:20 for the full.  I'm the dot at the 5:50 / 2.25 w/KG point on that chart.

T2: 2:00 - again seems average from last year

That leaves me 1:46:29 for the run.  This I know is a bit slower than the pace Shane will have me targeting based on what we have discussed.

Have I over-analysed it enough?    

I honestly didn't make up numbers to try to get sub 5, it just came out that way.  This all goes out the window if it's hot, or windy or anything outside of good weather for that matter.  I also realize that I have zero experience at this distance and I'm likely to just mess up a good plan.