Fred D's triathlon training group CLOSED (Page 8)

Trainerroad 20 min test# 2

Well, test is done, i felt like crapola, took me a bit to get going

compared to the first test i did in early Feb, this test had almost the same result, but with a different way of getting it there. I started off better the first time and faded, this time i started off and felt horrible, i almost just quit, but i did not want to do it again tomorrow, so i stuck with it, and i actually finished really strong.

old FTP  325

new FTP  326

3.35 w/kg

Hey guys.  Hope it's okay to poke in again.  I am out of gown helping my mom and dad after my mom's surgery (which went really well ).  I haven't caught up but it looks like some serious discussion.  I am hoping all is okay and I should be able check in more fully tomorrow.

Have a great evening all.

Jason - I'm the opposite.  I've never done a road test, only ever tested on the trainer.  For the most part I feel it lets me control the variables as much as possible, and so my test results should be comparable.

Rudy - without this coming across the wrong way.  I'm surprised by your watts/kg numbers considering you are such a strong cyclist.  I would venture a guess that trainerroad is underestimating your true numbers.

Unlike most of you I tend to bike and ride by distance, especially when it comes to running.  I run to a specific distance almost exclusively.

Neil, I think making tests comparable is the key.  The climb I do has zero stop signs or stop lights, and almost zero cars on it.  I don't have to stop for anything, and there are no areas for coasting or rest.  So it's as comparable as I can imagine on the open road.  The climb is also well shaded in most areas, so the variablity in heat is farily low.

I'll be doing the climb tomorrow.  Not as a 20 minute all out test, but as a test of 3 consecutive climbs.  It takes me about 14 minutes to descend to the restarting point.

2 weeks ago I did the climbs at 267, 274, and 262 watts

Last week was 279, 279, 266

Tomorrow I'm hoping for 280, 280, 280

At the peak of my fitness last year, I did it in 274, 275, 292

Same with me Neil re: FTP tests on the trainer - never done one on the road, and would be pleased as punch if I never had to do one on the trainer again either. My last tested FTP was 260, and based on the numbers I am hitting I believe I am holding that pretty solid.

Rudy - I don't know you at all obviously, but just based on your bio I too am surprised by your w/kg numbers, but I am far from an expert at figuring that sort of thing, so maybe it is right. Even though It seems your power should be higher than what TrainerRoad is reporting, I would still kill for your watts  - they make me weep... I would definitely be a dream-crusher with that kind of power. I have often wondered what I would have to do to get to the magic 4w/kg. It would currently entail either A) gaining 35 watts of power, or B) losing 13 pounds. Of course I guess I could be conservative and shoot the gap by gaining 18 more watts and only losing 7 pounds, but even that seems pretty far out of reach at the moment.

I agree Fred, but i also only race Crits and TT's, I do not do any hilly road races where power to weight is more important than power and HTFU, lol. So where as my watt/kg is on the low side, it really means nothing when doing a flatish race, then it is more about w/cda, w&htfu, & position. The key to my races is that i am not a pure sprinter, and long solo breaks are useless to me, i am good on the 4-6 min efforts, and work well in a break paceline. I also start my sprint out 100-200 meters further than the sprinters, and can hold it, i do not have the explosive power of a pure sprinter. So if i can get in a break, push the pace while on the front, i will leave before most all of my other break mates, and when they quit after 200m at the final sprint, i can keep going.  Ideally i am the perfect leadout man for a sprinter, big, wide and can give a sprinter a ton of shelter for the sprint.

I agree it is an estimation, but it does give me purpose on the trainer, instead of just guessing how hard i am working, the number is really irrelevant, other than a benchmark for current and future reference.

2000 in the pool this AM, best swim i had in a long time,  very happy with it.

not to beat the dead horse, but i have another thought on Power tests.  The 20 min test is 95% of 1 hour power, so if you ride at 345W for 20 min, your ftp is 326 or so. If you are a crappy tester, get distracted while testing, or can hold your 20min power for an hour, the 20 min adjusted FTP is irrelevant, in my opinion.  There are soo many variables regarding FTP and how it is calculated. And when it all comes down to it, the first guy across the line or with the lowest time wins, there is no FTP check at the finish line.

Finally back in Tucson.  Not sure what I have on tap today but maybe try an easy run and some strength training.  Not sure on the run though as I kind of ripped up my foot a tiny bit during the HIM and I need it to be completely healed by the end of the month as I might run sockless for the DU.  I was a bit surprised to find blood on my socks when I was getting undressed post race, wasn't bothered by a thing during the race.

I train by HR and RPE.  I want power but I don't even know why I want it.   Seems like there is still a lot of work to be done to properly train by power.  With HR there are at least two solid trains of thought but there just seems to be too many unknowns for me regarding power yet. 

I train by time for bike/run but by distance for swim.  The first couple of HIM's I used BT plans and I found their swim plans a bit demoralizing cause they put time and distance on the plan.  Being a very slow swimmer I hated seeing how far off my time/distance was compared to their estimates (even knowing it was estimates and that distance is what they recommended).  This last HIM I used Mark Allen Online and they only put distance in the swim.  I preferred that.  Course I would have had to quit my job to hit their distances, but mentally it sat better with me.

I finally got to weight in and I gained.  A lot.    I do think though that with a solid few days of eating properly I'll get back to where I was pre-trip.   So focus it is.  What?  You can't out eat a growing teenage boy in ribs and lose weight?  To many meals out as well.  There sure is some good restaurants in Austin though.

beating that horse further .  I think if you did the 8 minute test your adjusted FTP would be much higher than your 20 minute you just did.  Like you said, you are an HTFU rider...short and hard intervals are what you are good at!

I am wearily contemplating a 20 minute test at noon today...oh the pain awaits.

So far I have only tested on the trainer and used it as part of off season indoor training plans.  Outside I just ride, living in the Finger Lakes, I am generally not on flat roads and my avg. power numbers for these rides comes in higher than my test results indicate they should.  So my guess is that if I were to test outside, the number would be quite a bit higher.  For me, at least, the testing helps keep me honest in my indoor training, plus re-testing once a month over the course of the plan made the intervals harder which I believe will give me a stronger start to the season than I have had in past years. 

Not sure at this point what to do about using power data once I get outside for the bulk of the rides. 

Off on a run this morning, 4 or 5 miles.

Rudy - I love it! A whole new metric to use: HTFU/Kg! Is that available on the Garmin 910xt??? Man I gotta get me one of those. BTW, I am pretty sure my HTFU/Kg is about 1.02....

That bolded part is spot on - true for power meters, weight scales, timing devices, body fat measuring devices, etc. So long it is accurately calibrated with itself between measures that is all you need for training purposes. But that leaves me to wonder - maybe TrainerRoad is working just fine, and it is your weight scale that is busted - are you sure you do not actually weigh 137 pounds?

did i ever say how much i love this group??

it is nice to have such a large and accomplished group of athletes to bounce things off of, and get honest informative unbiased feedback.

for the record, i do not do flip turns

nor do i grease my crank, but i guess that sorta gets GatorDeb going.......HA!!!!!!

Kim - glad to see you made it home safe...and I do agree, Austin has great places to eat and when Tif and I go there I am sure we gain a few pounds ourselves!

After three days off following the HIM, I was itching to do something so I got up early and put in an easy 2 mile run.  Legs felt great during the run and so was I...however the legs are feeling the run now.  There is a bit of soreness that has returned but I expected that. 

The 20 minute test is in the books: http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/45317

I paced this pretty well.  I was a little skeptical of the 5 minute clearing session with this protocol.  I thought it would negatively effect me.  I think it really helped.  My legs were ready to rock for the 20 minutes.

FTP went up 8 watts since my last adjustment just a couple weeks ago and my weight has gone down 3 pounds since then.  Happy with that.