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2018-08-23 8:51 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by Hot Runner I am getting a new bikey tomorrow! Kind of my birthday present to myself. Taking "Rover" to the bike shop so that the components I want to transfer (seat, pedals, cranks with power meter, water bottle cages) can be moved to the new bike. Rover has served me and his previous owner faithfully for many years, but in the past year or so has developed a worrisome number of mechanical issues despite repeated maintenance, and I think he is just wearing out. Would need to replace gearing and most bolts as a minimum. There is also a persistent, annoying fit issue with him that can't be solved without replacing the entire front cockpit--probably simpler to get a new bike. Will post a picture of "Andreas" when he is camera-ready.

New bike, how exciting!!  Yay!!!



2018-08-23 8:53 AM
in reply to: StaceyK

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Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by StaceyK Hi Manatees POL post from me. Sorry I haven't been around much lately. It was because I have been really slack and not running much and checking BT made me feel guilty. I'm doing a bit better now. One of the girls at work encouraged me to make some major diet changes and I am feeling much better. Today is day 14 with no sugar or flour. Thankfully it has been a bit easier than I thought it would be and I have started sleeping really well which is something that I have always struggled with. I also feel like I have a lot more energy which is great. As an added bonus I have also lot about 8lb in the last 2 weeks. On top of all of that the sun is now coming up before 7am and the weather is warming up a bit (although this morning is was almost freezing at home) and there is a hint of spring in the air. Sorry that this means that you are moving out of summer and into fall but it always makes me happy Oh and they finally found out what the problem is with Ma Turtle's heal and the physio that she has been referred to is a running and it is rapidly improving. Ma is even thinking that she will be able to run the 10k when E and I do the marathon in 8 weeks time.

Glad to see you popping in here and glad to hear you are getting your self and your health sorted out.  8 lbs weight loss is wow! Spring will surely help  you feel better, too.  Such good news that Ma Turtle's heel is improving now that the problem is identified.  Good stuff!

2018-08-23 9:07 AM
in reply to: melbo55

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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by melbo55

Originally posted by StaceyK Hi Manatees POL post from me. Sorry I haven't been around much lately. It was because I have been really slack and not running much and checking BT made me feel guilty. I'm doing a bit better now. One of the girls at work encouraged me to make some major diet changes and I am feeling much better. Today is day 14 with no sugar or flour. Thankfully it has been a bit easier than I thought it would be and I have started sleeping really well which is something that I have always struggled with. I also feel like I have a lot more energy which is great. As an added bonus I have also lot about 8lb in the last 2 weeks. On top of all of that the sun is now coming up before 7am and the weather is warming up a bit (although this morning is was almost freezing at home) and there is a hint of spring in the air. Sorry that this means that you are moving out of summer and into fall but it always makes me happy Oh and they finally found out what the problem is with Ma Turtle's heal and the physio that she has been referred to is a running and it is rapidly improving. Ma is even thinking that she will be able to run the 10k when E and I do the marathon in 8 weeks time.

Glad to see you popping in here and glad to hear you are getting your self and your health sorted out.  8 lbs weight loss is wow! Spring will surely help  you feel better, too.  Such good news that Ma Turtle's heel is improving now that the problem is identified.  Good stuff!

agreed!

2018-08-24 7:20 AM
in reply to: amd723

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Raleigh, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED
New bikes, butterflies, improved health... lots of good news on from the Manatees this week!
2018-08-24 12:29 PM
in reply to: awm007

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Master
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Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Racing Manatees!!!

August 25-26
Stacey -  Judgement Tree Night Trail - 12k on Saturday
Robin K - Boulder Sunset Tri on Saturday
Janyne - Tour d’Orange ride on Saturday
TJ - Fort2Base on Sunday

Is anyone else racing?

2018-08-24 12:31 PM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Master
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Orlando
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by jmkizer

Racing Manatees!!!

August 25-26
Stacey -  Judgement Tree Night Trail - 12k on Saturday
Robin K - Boulder Sunset Tri on Saturday
Janyne - Tour d’Orange ride on Saturday
TJ - Fort2Base on Sunday

Is anyone else racing?

Another week of interesting named races!  Go get 'em manatees!



2018-08-24 12:47 PM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Master
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Rio Rancho, NM
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by jmkizer

Racing Manatees!!!

August 25-26
Stacey -  Judgement Tree Night Trail - 12k on Saturday
Robin K - Boulder Sunset Tri on Saturday
Janyne - Tour d’Orange ride on Saturday
TJ - Fort2Base on Sunday

Is anyone else racing?

Looks like a bunch of fun will be had!  Good luck to all.

Mine will be fun/emotional.  The "base" in Fort2Base is the Naval training academy where DS2 went to basic training. It'll be awesome being there but I have no doubt at some point emotions will overtake.

2018-08-24 1:35 PM
in reply to: amd723

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Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by amd723

Originally posted by jmkizer

Racing Manatees!!!

August 25-26
Stacey -  Judgement Tree Night Trail - 12k on Saturday
Robin K - Boulder Sunset Tri on Saturday
Janyne - Tour d’Orange ride on Saturday
TJ - Fort2Base on Sunday

Is anyone else racing?

Another week of interesting named races!  Go get 'em manatees!

What she said!

2018-08-24 3:21 PM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Master
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Englewood, Florida
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by jmkizer

Racing Manatees!!!

August 25-26
Stacey -  Judgement Tree Night Trail - 12k on Saturday
Robin K - Boulder Sunset Tri on Saturday
Janyne - Tour d’Orange ride on Saturday
TJ - Fort2Base on Sunday

Is anyone else racing?

Have fun everyone!

2018-08-24 6:08 PM
in reply to: #5232372

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North Augusta, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED
Good luck to everyone racing this weekend!!

I had a chat with my coach about next season...

And he said he wants me to consider Mountains to Main Street as my spring HIM distance in preparation for IM-LOU in the fall. My heart hurts a little at the thought...
2018-08-24 6:39 PM
in reply to: 0

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Master
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Eugene, Oregon
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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED
You could come join me at St. George....Unless you are fast and in my AG! But I doubt that is any less painful. My coach said it would be "a PERFECT course for you". And we know that means hilly, and extremely hot, right? And probably at some kind of altitude where I'll be breathing so hard it'll be a struggle just to swallow gu.

Edited by Hot Runner 2018-08-24 6:40 PM


2018-08-24 6:57 PM
in reply to: glfprncs

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Orlando
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by glfprncs Good luck to everyone racing this weekend!! I had a chat with my coach about next season... And he said he wants me to consider Mountains to Main Street as my spring HIM distance in preparation for IM-LOU in the fall. My heart hurts a little at the thought...

i had to look up mountains to Main Street- that is a rather hilly bike!

2018-08-25 10:59 AM
in reply to: JBacarella

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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by JBacarella One of the cool things about where I live is it is a natural trap for migratory animals. On today's run I was literally swarmed with tens of thousands (not an exaggeration) of monarch butterflies as they gather up to go South. Here are a couple of pictures. There are more on my Facebook page.
I would have thought I died and went to heaven!!!! That is stunning!

2018-08-25 11:00 AM
in reply to: glfprncs

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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by glfprncs Good luck to everyone racing this weekend!! I had a chat with my coach about next season... And he said he wants me to consider Mountains to Main Street as my spring HIM distance in preparation for IM-LOU in the fall. My heart hurts a little at the thought...
I will be your Sherpa! It is only an hour from me!

2018-08-25 11:05 AM
in reply to: melbo55

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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by melbo55

Originally posted by StaceyK Hi Manatees POL post from me. Sorry I haven't been around much lately. It was because I have been really slack and not running much and checking BT made me feel guilty. I'm doing a bit better now. One of the girls at work encouraged me to make some major diet changes and I am feeling much better. Today is day 14 with no sugar or flour. Thankfully it has been a bit easier than I thought it would be and I have started sleeping really well which is something that I have always struggled with. I also feel like I have a lot more energy which is great. As an added bonus I have also lot about 8lb in the last 2 weeks. On top of all of that the sun is now coming up before 7am and the weather is warming up a bit (although this morning is was almost freezing at home) and there is a hint of spring in the air. Sorry that this means that you are moving out of summer and into fall but it always makes me happy Oh and they finally found out what the problem is with Ma Turtle's heal and the physio that she has been referred to is a running and it is rapidly improving. Ma is even thinking that she will be able to run the 10k when E and I do the marathon in 8 weeks time.

Glad to see you popping in here and glad to hear you are getting your self and your health sorted out.  8 lbs weight loss is wow! Spring will surely help  you feel better, too.  Such good news that Ma Turtle's heel is improving now that the problem is identified.  Good stuff!

This is all good stuff! Happy for you and Ma Turtle!

2018-08-25 2:01 PM
in reply to: ceilidh

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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

I hope everyone is having good races this weekend!  I have been on vaca the past couple of weeks.  Super smokey from almost 600 forest fires in our province right now.  The smoke even made it to Calgary when we were there.  Tough to get much outdoor activities in so not much happening in my training log!

Glad to hear ma turtle is on the mend and the weather is looking up for you Stacey.

Butterflies and new bikes are awesome!

I start training for New Orleans on Monday.  Ran 11km today and felt like dying.  Sometimes I am not sure how I have done a full IM!  Hopefully fitness will return quickly

Happy weekend everyone.



2018-08-25 2:03 PM
in reply to: ceilidh

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North Augusta, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED
Originally posted by ceilidh

Originally posted by glfprncs Good luck to everyone racing this weekend!! I had a chat with my coach about next season... And he said he wants me to consider Mountains to Main Street as my spring HIM distance in preparation for IM-LOU in the fall. My heart hurts a little at the thought...
I will be your Sherpa! It is only an hour from me!




SWEET!! I've never had a sherpa. Always had to go solo.

Greenville is only 2.5 hours up the road which is why it's on coach's radar. He already told me the bike course will be harder than the 112 miles of IM-LOU. At least I have been forewarned.
2018-08-25 5:33 PM
in reply to: IronOx

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Eugene, Oregon
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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED
Yikes! Glad the fires were out of breathing range when I did Calgary 70.3 last month! We did hit really hideous smoke on the way up and back--some stretches in northern Idaho where it was even hard to see to drive--had the lights on for a long time to get through the smoke, and them forgot to turn them off; led to a dead battery the next morning. On the way back we wanted to stop to do a day hike in Kootenai, but most of the trails were closed due to fires and/or high fire danger. Our drive to/from Northern California via Crater Lake two weeks ago was also full of smoke; only clear air was at on Rim Drive at Crater, and at the coast in Arcata. Then the past two weeks since we got back to Boise have been what I call "the BBQ"--hot, dusty, and hazy. Today was the first day since mid-July that skies were semi-clear, at least in the morning (getting a bit hazy now). Ready for this to end!

I am not sure how ANYONE does a full IM. And I am training for one. Yikes!
2018-08-26 7:32 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Raleigh, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED
Hi Manatees.

I did my first long bike of the season (4 hours - long for me!) and I could use some nutritional advice. During the ride, I felt my energy was pretty good and I even had some PRs for some Strava segments. However, by the end, I felt nauseous and felt like I was sick of drinking/eating sugar. I did a quick run after that was pretty miserable given my upset stomach.

During the 4 hours, I took in a bottle of EFS (gel-like stuff) and 3 bottles of Gatorade plus water. I would estimate around 60 oz of liquid total and I did the math and I had around 800 calories, 200g carbs, 146g of sugar, 1100mg sodium, and 500mg potassium. Hourly, that would be about 200 calories, 50g carbs, 275mg sodium.

I was wondering if there are obvious changes I could make or, failing that if you all could share your HIM nutrition plan?

TIA
2018-08-26 8:07 PM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED
I actually did a race report. I know, I'm shocked as well!

https://beginnertriathlete.com/RaceLog/races-edit.asp?raceid=288792
2018-08-26 8:15 PM
in reply to: awm007

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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED
Originally posted by awm007

Hi Manatees.

I did my first long bike of the season (4 hours - long for me!) and I could use some nutritional advice. During the ride, I felt my energy was pretty good and I even had some PRs for some Strava segments. However, by the end, I felt nauseous and felt like I was sick of drinking/eating sugar. I did a quick run after that was pretty miserable given my upset stomach.

During the 4 hours, I took in a bottle of EFS (gel-like stuff) and 3 bottles of Gatorade plus water. I would estimate around 60 oz of liquid total and I did the math and I had around 800 calories, 200g carbs, 146g of sugar, 1100mg sodium, and 500mg potassium. Hourly, that would be about 200 calories, 50g carbs, 275mg sodium.

I was wondering if there are obvious changes I could make or, failing that if you all could share your HIM nutrition plan?

TIA


Your stomach may be revolting against all the liquids and not enough solids. I have to eat solid, real food on the bike. I can't do gels or the liquid nutrition. When I tried liquid nutrition and gels I would vomit.

The past few seasons I did Bonk Breakers and LauraBites made by LauraBars. The bites worked best for me, but unfortunately they discontinued them. This season I started eating regular peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I also increased my caloric intake from 200/hour to 250 in solid food, plus whatever I'm getting from the Gatorade. I should also add that I water-down the Gatorade a bit because the sugary taste drives me bonkers.

Do you have time before your race to try solid food, like PB&J?




2018-08-26 8:29 PM
in reply to: fortissimo

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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by fortissimo
Originally posted by awm007 Hi Manatees. I did my first long bike of the season (4 hours - long for me!) and I could use some nutritional advice. During the ride, I felt my energy was pretty good and I even had some PRs for some Strava segments. However, by the end, I felt nauseous and felt like I was sick of drinking/eating sugar. I did a quick run after that was pretty miserable given my upset stomach. During the 4 hours, I took in a bottle of EFS (gel-like stuff) and 3 bottles of Gatorade plus water. I would estimate around 60 oz of liquid total and I did the math and I had around 800 calories, 200g carbs, 146g of sugar, 1100mg sodium, and 500mg potassium. Hourly, that would be about 200 calories, 50g carbs, 275mg sodium. I was wondering if there are obvious changes I could make or, failing that if you all could share your HIM nutrition plan? TIA
Your stomach may be revolting against all the liquids and not enough solids. I have to eat solid, real food on the bike. I can't do gels or the liquid nutrition. When I tried liquid nutrition and gels I would vomit. The past few seasons I did Bonk Breakers and LauraBites made by LauraBars. The bites worked best for me, but unfortunately they discontinued them. This season I started eating regular peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I also increased my caloric intake from 200/hour to 250 in solid food, plus whatever I'm getting from the Gatorade. I should also add that I water-down the Gatorade a bit because the sugary taste drives me bonkers. Do you have time before your race to try solid food, like PB&J?

I agree with the above.  I had to incorporate solid as well.  I also would have taken in more fluids--I usually need about 500ml per hour (16oz), more if hot.  I sweat a lot though.

2018-08-26 8:32 PM
in reply to: awm007

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Eugene, Oregon
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Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED
I have the same kind of issues with relying on gu and other sweet stuff for too long. What helps me is getting in a greater mixture of textures and flavors on the bike, getting more of my bike calories in the form of solids, and just using fluids for hydration (not calories).
For longer rides, I generally go with a couple different kinds of energy or granola bars. Instead of just sweet flavors I will try to make one of them more of a salty flavor like Cliff Mojo Peanut Butter Pretzel, or one of the Nature Valley Sweet and Salty bars. Sometimes I even put a few salted nuts in there for crunch and variety. In a race (I think most Manatees have heard this) I tend to use dark chocolate until the final half-hour or so, when I take in one gu (at most--some races, including the 5:06 at Calgary last month, I had only chocolate on the bike). YMMV--I know that wouldn't work for a lot of people due to the fat, but I've never had any gut issues with it on bike or run. For the full IM I'm hoping to go with mainly solids (energy bars, bananas) on the bike and probably gu, pretzel sticks, and whatever looks good on the run.

I'm also going to experiment soon with U-Can. It's a liquid nutrition product that uses mainly complex carbs--originally developed for diabetics, but apparently some long-course athletes swear by it. I've gotten very different feedback on it from my coach and the coach of the tri club here in Boise. It's supposed to have a less sweet taste than most liquid nutrition and less likely to lead to the energy spikes/dips and nausea that some people get with gu and other simple carbs. Mainly considering it as sometimes on group rides (really) I am working so hard it's hard to swallow solids. (The only group I've found to ride with really is a stretch for me at times. It's a cycling group as opposed to triathletes so they like to do crazy random surges!) Plus in IM Malaysia there are a couple of stretches (I think 24 miles total, 12 miles on each loop) where there are a lot of monkeys and they don't want you to get out solid nutrition for safety reasons! That is kind of long in full IM to go without any fuel.

I usually save gu for the final 30 minutes or so long rides and/or the brick run after. I don't drink sweetened fluids at all, pretty much ever, except for the occasional swig of Coke late in a HIM run. For hydration I use Nuun (sugar-free electrolyte tabs) and sometimes plain water (to wash down nutrition). This seems to work much better for me than sweetened drinks, especially if I am using gu. Gatorade is pretty sweet already. Washing EFS down with that is probably just too much sweet stuff, and too concentrated, for your stomach to handle.

In a race I will usually take in about 500-600 calories on the bike and then maybe another 200 on the run. Due to the chocolate (and nuts, chips, etc. in the products I train with), probably I am taking in a greater % of fat than most people, but it works for me. I use only gu though for Olympic distance. Usually nothing for a sprint, just Nuun and water. This is at the low end of things for HIM, but I am about 115-117 pounds. Certainly many people take in a lot more, especially guys and people who outweigh me! This stuff is really very individual--you just need to experiment in training until you find something that works for you and is practical for a race situation. I know people who do half and even full IM just on liquid nutrition, or tons of gu. One guy I rode with Sunday only ate salted baby potatoes for an 80 mile ride. Whatever works!

Hope at least some of this is useful!

2018-08-27 2:59 AM
in reply to: 0

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Western Australia
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED
Sorry Adam I cant really add anything and agree that the amount of liquid may have been a major contributing factor.

But while we are talking nutrition I would also like some help. I have recently stopped eating sugar and flour and so now I'm trying to work out nutrition for my up coming HM and Marathon. If you have any ideas I would love to hear them.

When I use Gu I normally need to start at about the 10k mark and have one every 45 minutes or so.

Oh and no run for me on Saturday night as my dad was in town and we went out for dinner.

Edited by StaceyK 2018-08-27 3:03 AM
2018-08-27 8:03 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Master
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Orlando
Subject: RE: Manatees - 2018 Edition Now CLOSED

Originally posted by Hot Runner I have the same kind of issues with relying on gu and other sweet stuff for too long. What helps me is getting in a greater mixture of textures and flavors on the bike, getting more of my bike calories in the form of solids, and just using fluids for hydration (not calories). For longer rides, I generally go with a couple different kinds of energy or granola bars. Instead of just sweet flavors I will try to make one of them more of a salty flavor like Cliff Mojo Peanut Butter Pretzel, or one of the Nature Valley Sweet and Salty bars. Sometimes I even put a few salted nuts in there for crunch and variety. In a race (I think most Manatees have heard this) I tend to use dark chocolate until the final half-hour or so, when I take in one gu (at most--some races, including the 5:06 at Calgary last month, I had only chocolate on the bike). YMMV--I know that wouldn't work for a lot of people due to the fat, but I've never had any gut issues with it on bike or run. For the full IM I'm hoping to go with mainly solids (energy bars, bananas) on the bike and probably gu, pretzel sticks, and whatever looks good on the run. I'm also going to experiment soon with U-Can. It's a liquid nutrition product that uses mainly complex carbs--originally developed for diabetics, but apparently some long-course athletes swear by it. I've gotten very different feedback on it from my coach and the coach of the tri club here in Boise. It's supposed to have a less sweet taste than most liquid nutrition and less likely to lead to the energy spikes/dips and nausea that some people get with gu and other simple carbs. Mainly considering it as sometimes on group rides (really) I am working so hard it's hard to swallow solids. (The only group I've found to ride with really is a stretch for me at times. It's a cycling group as opposed to triathletes so they like to do crazy random surges!) Plus in IM Malaysia there are a couple of stretches (I think 24 miles total, 12 miles on each loop) where there are a lot of monkeys and they don't want you to get out solid nutrition for safety reasons! That is kind of long in full IM to go without any fuel. I usually save gu for the final 30 minutes or so long rides and/or the brick run after. I don't drink sweetened fluids at all, pretty much ever, except for the occasional swig of Coke late in a HIM run. For hydration I use Nuun (sugar-free electrolyte tabs) and sometimes plain water (to wash down nutrition). This seems to work much better for me than sweetened drinks, especially if I am using gu. Gatorade is pretty sweet already. Washing EFS down with that is probably just too much sweet stuff, and too concentrated, for your stomach to handle. In a race I will usually take in about 500-600 calories on the bike and then maybe another 200 on the run. Due to the chocolate (and nuts, chips, etc. in the products I train with), probably I am taking in a greater % of fat than most people, but it works for me. I use only gu though for Olympic distance. Usually nothing for a sprint, just Nuun and water. This is at the low end of things for HIM, but I am about 115-117 pounds. Certainly many people take in a lot more, especially guys and people who outweigh me! This stuff is really very individual--you just need to experiment in training until you find something that works for you and is practical for a race situation. I know people who do half and even full IM just on liquid nutrition, or tons of gu. One guy I rode with Sunday only ate salted baby potatoes for an 80 mile ride. Whatever works! Hope at least some of this is useful!

This is what I do! Both are new to me this training session -especially the potatoes; just added them in 2 weeks ago.  As far as UCAN goes, from what I can tell you either love it or hate it.  I'm kind of loving it as I do not like to eat much while working out -more specifically, my tummy doesn't like me to eat much.  UCAN seems to do the trick for me, but I still have to be careful with timing of ucan w/ protein v without protein. Also know that b/c of the way you use it, you consume a lot less calories and you must get used to that. For IM distance it is recommended that you either consume 1 serving w/ protein 30-45 minutes before the swim; or 1 packet with protein2 hours ahead and then another 30-45 minutes before the start; or 2 servings with protein 60-90 minutes before the start.  You need to see which works best for you.  I've been training using 1.5 serving w/ protein 60-90 minutes before and a  cinnamon raisin english muffin w/ PB about 60 minutes before , so i'm a little different 

During the race they want you to consume 1 serving 15 minutes into the bike and then every 60-90 (start out at the 60 minute end as you get accustomed to the dosng) minutes thereafter; trying to time the last serving as close to the end of the bike as possible.  Once you experiment with it that 1 serving may become as many as 2.  I've been doing 1.5 recently and since i haven't swum before the bike in training, I do my first 1 hour into the bike.  UCAN is not like other liquid nutrition, so you need to drink the serving within 5 minutes or so as the super starch is released over the 90 minute period.

On the run take a serving  every 60-90 minutes.  

On the bike, I have found that the first serving can be with protein, but after that no protein is better for my tummy.  Because i started to feel deprived not being able to eat for all those hours, I started adding the potatoes. I am doing 2 small salted  red potatoes. I take them around mile 50 and they are money!

There are a few different flavors, I use the chocolate. I think Randi hates it, but I like it. Even hot it is not bad -though cold and thickly made is better.

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