SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN (Page 99)
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Nice to see you back. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by rymac Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by rymac Thanks for all the input. I am still investigating the additional costs on both options. I think the wheelcover for the rear and the hassle of changing tires on the wheel for trainer to road and vice versa are it for the PT. FWIW, I don't change the tire everytime it goes on and off the trainer. Generally I use the same tires for training outside that I do on the trainer. At the moment i have a Michelin Pro Race that I ride indoors and out with. Once the cold weather has fully relegated me to indoor riding I will put an old crap tire on that I would never ride outside with. Outside of that the only time I change the tire is for races. Arend - Thats what I would likely do as well. I turn into a swearing sailor when I start changing tires, primarily the dedicated trainer tire really gets me worked up haha. This used to be my problem for the longest time. I learned two things about my trainer tire: 1) One side is hardrer to get on than the other. I try to get that side on first before installing the tube. 2) If I forget the above, then when I have the final part of the tire left to install and I know my thumbs are about to turn into raw meat, I reach for the tire lever, reverse it, and lift the tire onto the rim. It took me years to figure this out, and one day a light bulb finally went on and my thumbs and sanity have thanked me ever since. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Fred D So, my powertap should be in hopefully Thursday. Is there any significant setup that I need to do? It's coming to my lbs. ALSO, I am planning on giving a full 1 hour test with it to see FTP. I won't have a FTP this high, probably ever again, as I haven't been swimming and my running is only slowly getting back together. Any suggestions by anyone who has done the full hour before on pacing it? Thanks for the welcome back. Last winter I did this. It wasn't a pure test but I started riding hard all of the sudden on the trainer and decided after a few minutes I was just going to hammer it for an hour right on the edge. I wasn't rested and actually had ridden hard the day prior. I came in under what I'd project my true FTP to be and it was under what my HR threshold is, but it gave me a really good indicator to use and I indexed it as 95% at the time. I just looked at it and during the 1 hour I happen to have two 1' breaks where I went down to about 65-70% where I gathered myself but other than the lapses that both occured in the middle 20, my first 20 and last 20 minutes were within 2 watts of each other. Mentally it is a hard effort on the trainer and just as much mental as physical in my opinion. It is one thing to perform at that level for an hour in a race, but to force yourself to put out a 60' effort is tough (at least for me) on the trainer. I like your approach and like the true one hour hammerfest. Personally, I think you should not do the test right away because I think you are more likely to blow it since you haven't had power in awhile. I would do at least one or two rides with it first where you build up to tempo and then begin a 10 or 20 minute effort and then take a short break and do it again. Doing a 2x20 even on the conservative side or a 45' tempo effort by feel a few days before will give you a tighter range to target so you aren't blindly chasing a number. Without that, you may be more likely to go out too hard and sabatoge or too easy and undershoot. When I did it, I warmed up for a couple minutes and then built to high tempo for a couple minutes before upping it to threshold. I'm not one for huge warmups though. I watched a sufferfest video for motivation when I did it but instead of doing the workout I just hammered straight through it. Good luck! Sorry I have no real pearls of wisdom. I think this is a case where you need to go off into a dark corner on your own and battle your bike demons! |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Jason N Leaving for Kona in a few hours. Right now, weather seems typical. Probably looking at a high of around 84-86 and a real feel of around 90-95. Safe travels and have an awesome week! |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by acumenjay Originally posted by Fred D So, my powertap should be in hopefully Thursday. Is there any significant setup that I need to do? It's coming to my lbs. ALSO, I am planning on giving a full 1 hour test with it to see FTP. I won't have a FTP this high, probably ever again, as I haven't been swimming and my running is only slowly getting back together. Any suggestions by anyone who has done the full hour before on pacing it? Thanks for the welcome back. Last winter I did this. It wasn't a pure test but I started riding hard all of the sudden on the trainer and decided after a few minutes I was just going to hammer it for an hour right on the edge. I wasn't rested and actually had ridden hard the day prior. I came in under what I'd project my true FTP to be and it was under what my HR threshold is, but it gave me a really good indicator to use and I indexed it as 95% at the time. I just looked at it and during the 1 hour I happen to have two 1' breaks where I went down to about 65-70% where I gathered myself but other than the lapses that both occured in the middle 20, my first 20 and last 20 minutes were within 2 watts of each other. Mentally it is a hard effort on the trainer and just as much mental as physical in my opinion. It is one thing to perform at that level for an hour in a race, but to force yourself to put out a 60' effort is tough (at least for me) on the trainer. I like your approach and like the true one hour hammerfest. Personally, I think you should not do the test right away because I think you are more likely to blow it since you haven't had power in awhile. I would do at least one or two rides with it first where you build up to tempo and then begin a 10 or 20 minute effort and then take a short break and do it again. Doing a 2x20 even on the conservative side or a 45' tempo effort by feel a few days before will give you a tighter range to target so you aren't blindly chasing a number. Without that, you may be more likely to go out too hard and sabatoge or too easy and undershoot. When I did it, I warmed up for a couple minutes and then built to high tempo for a couple minutes before upping it to threshold. I'm not one for huge warmups though. I watched a sufferfest video for motivation when I did it but instead of doing the workout I just hammered straight through it. Good luck! Sorry I have no real pearls of wisdom. I think this is a case where you need to go off into a dark corner on your own and battle your bike demons! Fred, I can't imagine doing a full hour test, at least not indoors. Outside I could probably give it a much better go. I think Jason's suggestion of doing a few rides with the PT first is a good idea though to give you a better ballpark estimate of what to shoot for. |
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![]() I have no idea how someone can do this outside. The way I feel on a 20' test, I am not of sound mind in the last several minutes, and I am not joking. I would not trust myself to be able to ride safely, and thus do not feel I'd be giving 100%. |
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![]() This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred D 2013-10-08 6:39 PM |
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![]() Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by ChrisMI have no idea how someone can do this outside. The way I feel on a 20' test, I am not of sound mind in the last several minutes, and I am not joking. I would not trust myself to be able to ride safely, and thus do not feel I'd be giving 100%. . I have some very empty roads in central pa. I hope so. I still can't imagine. I wouldn't do it, even on an empty road. Velodrome, maybe Edited by ChrisM 2013-10-08 6:43 PM |
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![]() This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred D 2013-10-08 6:44 PM |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Fred D Truthfully the. Aim purpose of power for me will be to make my trainer rides over the winter slightly better. I feel strongly that my outdoor power numbers are quite different than trainer numbers and since thee vast majority of my riding is outdoors after February, it seems to make sense to be using a test from outdoor data. Ultimately I don't subscribe much to power tests, but would rather look at golden cheetah data instead of my overall riding. Testing is fun, but not necessary for what I want to use power for. Btw that didn't make sense.... I plan to test indoors as well at some point lol. Makes sense to me. I don't test really ever (blasphemer), but I have a good handle on about where I am within 10 watts I'd say just by feel and riding a lot. I also know that I'm about 5% higher outside than inside and will ride accordingly. Good luck hitting it outside. It'd be tough on the terrain around me to execute I think. I may be able to do it but my VI would pretty high from the rollers and some intersections I'd inevitably hit. Are there any late season bike races? Also, my roadie and TT are slightly different maybe by another couple percent so there is some variability there as well.... |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Fred D Yup! Here are a few things I think about Power (Fredsisms if you will). I bring these up to generate discussion as Marc and several others here are more expert than me.... just my thoughts:
All good points Fred. My thoughts: 1. pacing purely off a short test is downright foolish. Using short tests to setup your training and provide target power ranges for long rides and then pacing a race based on those long rides is a valid strategy. 2. I agree with this. I just don't want to do it - lol 3. Agreed, that and pushing me to hit power targets for intervals on the trainer 4. Also agreed and something I'd like to learn more about 5. Isn't that just using your ride history and picking out a 20' and 5' peak power and estimating from that? I don't know if it's actually 20 and 5 but something along those lines. I agree it's more real world - assuming you actually put in some good hard efforts during training. |
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![]() A little over 1km swim out from the pier in some of the most beautiful water I've ever swam in. Much more reef and fish hanging around than in Hapuna Bay for Honu. My GF and I went just after sunrise to beat the crowd (and it got really crowded at the pier when we got out) but we just missed the Coffee's of Hawaii boat coming out. Oh well...tomorrow. The vibe here is unreal. Edited by Jason N 2013-10-09 12:49 PM |
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![]() Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Fred D Yup! Here are a few things I think about Power (Fredsisms if you will). I bring these up to generate discussion as Marc and several others here are more expert than me.... just my thoughts:
All good points Fred. My thoughts: 1. pacing purely off a short test is downright foolish. Using short tests to setup your training and provide target power ranges for long rides and then pacing a race based on those long rides is a valid strategy. 2. I agree with this. I just don't want to do it - lol 3. Agreed, that and pushing me to hit power targets for intervals on the trainer 4. Also agreed and something I'd like to learn more about 5. Isn't that just using your ride history and picking out a 20' and 5' peak power and estimating from that? I don't know if it's actually 20 and 5 but something along those lines. I agree it's more real world - assuming you actually put in some good hard efforts during training. Fully agree Fred. I love power. I would recommend it to anyone who is willing to put in the time and learn how to use it. But as great as it is, I do think it gets overplayed as some magic pill that will lead to better bike fitness and people spend loads of money to put it on their bike and then either never take advantage of it, or use other people's power profile to guide their race goals and end up pacing poorly. 1. Fully agree. 20' tests, unless you're training for a 30' or less race, is just a test of fitness. It's a good gauge to see if you're improving or not, but it is not an accurate way to devise a pacing plan for long course. It is a good start to giving you a ballpark for what you should shoot for in training, and that should guide your race pace. 2. I actually wouldn't choose to do a 1 hour test simply because of the recovery costs and the taper required to do it properly. If the goal is to see what type of power you can hold on "not fresh" legs, then that makes sense. Such as if you were going to do a stage race. 3. Power while climbing is huge in a non draft legal race. 4. Yes, but I'm this is also something I need to educate myself more on. Or simply dump my data on Marc and let him figure it out. 5. I don't do enough riding without stops or areas where I have to coast/brake to get an accurate power curve. For the short stuff under 5 minutes yes, but it's hard for me to ride more than 20 minutes all out. |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Fred D ] Lastly I really liked the Golden Cheetah's way of estimating CP from your previous riding. It's great. Watch the curve and the points it touches and fill in the points were it doesn't touch and you get a more accurate curve Originally posted by Fred D I truly don't believe that a 20' test or combination of 5, 20' tests is a good way to pace a longer course triathlon. I just don't. 80% or 70% of FTP is just a starting point that needs to be validated by field testing. Repeat : needs to be validated by field testing....ie long rides at race pace Of course FTP is best determined by a 1hour test, but some of the approximations are good enought to set the starting point to be validated by field testing. A coach I know has said a 4/30 min test has shown to be more accurate. By the way, the GC CP curve is calculated by the same formula as the 5/20min, 4/30min test..... Originally posted by Fred D For me I much prefer the idea of riding really hard for 1 hour to see what I can actually do. I am aware that it is mentally more taxing, but read the last part of my sig. line... If the purpose is to get an FTP that will be used as a starting point to validate a long course pace, then make sure you do the test in aero :-) If the purpose is to establish zones for training, zones have enough play in them that a good approximation of FTP is probably good enough If the purpose is to validate progress there are other,m less intreusive ways of doing that. |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Jason N A little over 1km swim out from the pier in some of the most beautiful water I've ever swam in. Much more reef and fish hanging around than in Hapuna Bay for Honu. My GF and I went just after sunrise to beat the crowd (and it got really crowded at the pier when we got out) but we just missed the Coffee's of Hawaii boat coming out. Oh well...tomorrow. The vibe here is unreal. Agreed on the vibe. Do you feel like you should lose 20-30 lbs and buy a superbike yet? |
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![]() Yup! Here are a few things I think about Power (Fredsisms if you will). I bring these up to generate discussion as Marc and several others here are more expert than me.... just my thoughts:
I'll comment on the Fredisms as a relative newbie to power. As a caveat, I will say that I have ridden with the same small group for several years. I am the only one with power, but that also coincided with weight loss. I now crush people that used to crush me. Obviously a combo of several factors, but power has really intensified and focused my midweek riding, which could best be previously described as unfocused. 1. Common sense might make one conclude that you can't relate 20'/5' tests to IM racing (or HIM?) But this is what they describe for running, no? i.e., 20' run test to set zones. Is it different than that (not a challenge, honest question)? I really have only the IM Canada data point to compare to and don't know what that tells me. I went about my planned time but about 20-30 watts below planned NP. Honestly, I don't know what that says about the question. the tested FTP wasn't accurate? Too conservative? Execution skew all these numbers? Who knows.... I do feel that my tested FTP played out well on most of my long training rides frm a %age perspective..... 2. Call me lazy, bt I am perfectly happy with an approximation from which to extrapolate (even the hour is an approximation, just less so). ETA - there is a 20 and 40k time trial series here relatively local. That might be a possibility...... 3. Absoutely agree, and from riding with all of my friends that don't ride power, climbing more intelligently. 4. Not enough experience to really know as I've not had te aero toys and power out together enough, but makes sense. 5. Above my intellectual pay grade Edited by ChrisM 2013-10-09 1:11 PM |
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![]() Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Jason N A little over 1km swim out from the pier in some of the most beautiful water I've ever swam in. Much more reef and fish hanging around than in Hapuna Bay for Honu. My GF and I went just after sunrise to beat the crowd (and it got really crowded at the pier when we got out) but we just missed the Coffee's of Hawaii boat coming out. Oh well...tomorrow. The vibe here is unreal. Agreed on the vibe. Do you feel like you should lose 20-30 lbs and buy a superbike yet? LOL, I never felt so self conscious in my life. At Honu, I know there's like 150-200 really fit athletes there that put me to shame. Here, it's more like 1500...lol. It was amazing swimming in such clear water where you can see others from pretty far away just zooming by you. Going out to pick up my Rudy Project helmet/sunglasses, then heading out to the expo again as we didn't have much time to browse last night. Plus it was dark so getting pictures of all the superbikes was tough. The Canyon one just looks plain sick. Slowtwitch gathering tonight. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Boardman is supposed to be announcing something new with Pete Jacobs out there. They said at noon, but didn't say what time zone, guessing local. |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() What kind of workouts do you guys do to improve your VO2max? I recently did 5 minute and 20 minute power tests (5min on Thursday, 20min on Saturday) and came out with 206W and 193W, respectively. I'm pretty sure that means my VO2max is pretty weak in comparison to my FTP....and also means that it needs to be improved before making much/any real gains in the FTP department. Also, in relation to the conversation above, I wouldn't blindly use FTP to pace a longer race, but am looking to improve it for overall fitness. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by ligersandtions What kind of workouts do you guys do to improve your VO2max? I recently did 5 minute and 20 minute power tests (5min on Thursday, 20min on Saturday) and came out with 206W and 193W, respectively. I'm pretty sure that means my VO2max is pretty weak in comparison to my FTP....and also means that it needs to be improved before making much/any real gains in the FTP department. Also, in relation to the conversation above, I wouldn't blindly use FTP to pace a longer race, but am looking to improve it for overall fitness. Usually 3-5 min intervals with about equal rest. Getting in a total of 15-25' or so of hard work. Sometimes a little shorter for interval length (where the equal on/off becomes more important), but not that often. I try for 110% or a bit over, but 105-120% should work it. You might also not be used to working up that high. I couldn't do it very well right now and would need a couple sessions to work up to that. |
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![]() Noon local time. I saw the bike covered up and asked the guy at 10am if I could take a peek. He said no...lol. getting lots of free stuff though. |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by ligersandtions What kind of workouts do you guys do to improve your VO2max? I recently did 5 minute and 20 minute power tests (5min on Thursday, 20min on Saturday) and came out with 206W and 193W, respectively. I'm pretty sure that means my VO2max is pretty weak in comparison to my FTP....and also means that it needs to be improved before making much/any real gains in the FTP department. Also, in relation to the conversation above, I wouldn't blindly use FTP to pace a longer race, but am looking to improve it for overall fitness. Usually 3-5 min intervals with about equal rest. Getting in a total of 15-25' or so of hard work. Sometimes a little shorter for interval length (where the equal on/off becomes more important), but not that often. I try for 110% or a bit over, but 105-120% should work it. You might also not be used to working up that high. I couldn't do it very well right now and would need a couple sessions to work up to that. Sounds about right. Typically my progression with Shane has been starting at 3' with 2-3' rest and working towards 5' with 2' rest. I often can't pull off the 5' ones and blow up. It's the workout I dread the most. |
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![]() Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by ligersandtions What kind of workouts do you guys do to improve your VO2max? I recently did 5 minute and 20 minute power tests (5min on Thursday, 20min on Saturday) and came out with 206W and 193W, respectively. I'm pretty sure that means my VO2max is pretty weak in comparison to my FTP....and also means that it needs to be improved before making much/any real gains in the FTP department. Also, in relation to the conversation above, I wouldn't blindly use FTP to pace a longer race, but am looking to improve it for overall fitness. Usually 3-5 min intervals with about equal rest. Getting in a total of 15-25' or so of hard work. Sometimes a little shorter for interval length (where the equal on/off becomes more important), but not that often. I try for 110% or a bit over, but 105-120% should work it. You might also not be used to working up that high. I couldn't do it very well right now and would need a couple sessions to work up to that. Sounds about right. Typically my progression with Shane has been starting at 3' with 2-3' rest and working towards 5' with 2' rest. I often can't pull off the 5' ones and blow up. It's the workout I dread the most. Ha. I recently had a "threshold" workout (haven't been doing much V02 since well before IMC) and in my report I commented "that felt suspiciously like a V02 max set...." |
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