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2009-11-02 3:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
trotpntbll - 2009-11-02 3:52 PM Thanks for doing this! Like I said, I'm going to enjoy the structure on the trainer.

One quick question, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but is session 3 for this week supposed to me 3 by 10 minutes or 3 by 10 seconds? I'm reading it as 3 by 10 seconds which makes no sense, I'm assuming it's 3 by 10 minutes.


You're assuming correctly.


2009-11-02 5:47 PM
in reply to: #2492759

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
This is great!  Thanks so much!  Going to do my first Q1 in an hour. 

2009-11-02 6:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread

Day 1 down..Even stayed withing my Guesstimated HR.

2009-11-02 6:46 PM
in reply to: #2492759

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Thanks, Jorge!!  I'm looking forward to having some focus on the trainer this winter.
2009-11-02 6:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Wow, first day done, if this is the start holy crap what is to follow. Did not realize my conditioning dropped this much. Excited to see this through.
2009-11-02 7:28 PM
in reply to: #2492759

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Going to give it a go...

I am trying to understand the warm-up.  I understand the first 10', but what does +5' as 15" mean? Also, does the (30") in the main set mean rest?  Do I do that between each interval?


2009-11-02 7:50 PM
in reply to: #2494228

Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Opening shot





(Joes_scale.jpg)



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2009-11-02 8:04 PM
in reply to: #2492759

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
First day done.  Had to get used to being on the trainer again.  Haven't been on it since last April or so.  I forgot how much sweat was shed on the trainer.  Cranked up the Sirius Hits and felt like a good workout.

My husband is doing Q1 in the morning. 

Thanks for taking the time to put together these workouts.  We are both people that do best with structure.  Looking to make progress on the bike this winter, as well as the run and the swim after having a fairly successful 2009 season, completing Timberman 70.3.

2009-11-02 8:25 PM
in reply to: #2494228

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
akrenik - 2009-11-02 8:28 PM Going to give it a go...

I am trying to understand the warm-up.  I understand the first 10', but what does +5' as 15" mean? Also, does the (30") in the main set mean rest?  Do I do that between each interval?

5 mins done as :15 on and :45 off (rest).  Then yes, the main set is 10x:30 on and :30 off (rest)
2009-11-02 8:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
2009-11-02 9:34 PM
in reply to: #2492759

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
1 down, ? to go.  Great workout. Lots of sweat.


2009-11-02 9:35 PM
in reply to: #2494361

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
I did the workout tonight. - calculated my LTHR to be 145bpm.I was not able to get up to the 100%+ (145+) within the 30 seconds on the main set. I got to about 140. It was almost too easy to stay within the HR parameters on the 15 minutes after the 10x30"Am I doing something wrong here?
2009-11-02 9:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Wow, that was.... Sweaty.

Thank you very much Jorge. I also do better with structure and I like the fact that I can "check in" here. The support is priceless!!

I just found out that I have an upcoming two week long trip to Asia. Not sure if I will be able to keep it up during the trip but I will do my best!!

Good luck everyone!!!!!
2009-11-02 9:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Thanks Jorge! I'm looking forward to this. I start tomorrow.
2009-11-02 10:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Week 1, Q1 is complete and in the books. Biked 13.51 miles in 42m 30s (Note: incorrectly programed my Garmin so I spun for 2 1/2 minutes after the session). Average pace was 19.07mph @ an average cadence of 91rpm.

Great session and ready for the next session. Tomorrow is a short run and some core time.

Michael

PS: reward tonight a big glass of chocolate milk. Smile

Edited by mgilliland 2009-11-02 10:44 PM
2009-11-02 10:36 PM
in reply to: #2492759

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
1st session done! That certainly made the time go by quicker on the trainer. I'll hit the next one on Wed...


2009-11-02 11:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
First session done. I forgot to turn on the big fan but I wont make that mistake twice.
I programmed the workout into an erg file for the computrainer. I had to guess at an FTP level to base the workout on and might have come in a bit too easy. I've seen a max HR on the bike nudge just over 180 last year and barely got up to 161 at one point in this session.



(J2_w1_Q1.jpg)



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2009-11-03 6:34 AM
in reply to: #2492759

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2009-11-03 7:15 AM
in reply to: #2493751

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Lisa B - 2009-11-02 2:47 PM Jorge - question regarding HR zones.  If I use your calculation with my LTHR they do not match my Zones that my coach gave me or the way they are calculated in Training Peaks.  What method are you using?  I am assuming I should use the Zones that I have been given and are using (and will verify this with my coach).  My question is as long as we are consistent does it matter if we use your calculation as opposed to other methods of Zone calculation?

Thanks too for doing this!

Fair question; let me explain why I suggested setting training zones (using a HR monitors) the way I do and why there is a discrepancy with the HR calculators offered here at BT or Trainingpeaks.

I am base training levels (aka training zones) based on the work of Andrew Coggan PhD who has done extensive work with USA Cycling for power training seminars and co-author of the Training with a Power Meter Book. The way he established this training zones is based on physiological adaptatations based on how our body responds to different training intensisties. More specifically he determines power levels of power/pace functional threshold which roughly is the maximum effort we can sustain all for around 60 min. In endurance sports this is commonly referred as LT though scientifically this intensity is more related to the maximum lactate steady state which is the most important physiological determinant of endurance performance, because this integrates VO2max, the % of VO2max that can be sustained for a given duration and cycling efficiency all key components for performance, not to mention it is an excellent way to predict performance.

If you click here you will get a description of the different zones suggested and the reasoning behind it. Given the extensive experience and his work I believe his training levels offer a better way to establish zones to better manage training load and accentuate specific adaptations.

The BT calculator on the other hand is based as far as I can tell off Joel Friel’s 7 training zones. Now I’ve done a bit of research and I haven't been able to find out anything indicating how does Friel defines his suggested training zones (if someone does please share the info) hence I am a bit skeptic of that.  Trainingpeaks gives you the option to choose different ways to set up your traing levels and one of those Friel 7 levels or Coggan 5 trainingl levels. Ask your coach how did he defined your training zones and if you feel more comfortable using those do so, as long as you are consistent you should be fine.

Anyway, I personally like Coggan's levels because 1) there is a physiological explanation behind it 2) He has great credentials when it comes to cycling training and 3) they are simpler to follow.

Now let me remind you; training zones are man created as a way to address different physiological adaptations and to allow us to train more efficiently. But your body doesn’t really know when one zones starts and another ends, they all blend together fort that reason when you are doing work at certain intensity while it will produce more specific adaptations achieved at that intensity you still are producing other adaptations achieved training at other intensities at some degree.

For instance doing interval sessions at threshold power/pace will primarily produce adaptations such as increase muscles glycogen storage, muscle mitochondrial enzymes , increase lactate etc but also adaptations at a lesser degree achieved when training at endurance power/pace (z2) such as improvement of slow twitch muscle fibers fatigue resistance. On the link provided above you can see this illustrated on Table 2.

For those who want to follow the Coggan's training levels just follow the next link and you’ll get an online calculator for Andrew’s HR/power zones. Once you done the test (power or HR) and determine your LTHR (97% of avg for test) or FTP (critical power for 20 and 5 min test) just plug in the value on the calculator and voila, you have your training zones.

Finally, why 97%? well, it is just a guesstimate - In order to obtain your true LTHR or functional power threshold you would need to ride 1 hr all out and that's ideally the best way to test. However that's a very intense test and something not many athletes are willing to go through every 4-6 weeks. The good news is that in general the max effort athletes can sustain for 20-30 min is roughly done @ 95-97% of the max effort they can sustain for 60 min. The actual number might be higher or lower but since it is a guesstimate to begin with as long as you are on the ball park it will work. I hope ths helps to explain as to why I suggest why I do

2009-11-03 7:20 AM
in reply to: #2494671

Coach
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
trotpntbll - 2009-11-03 6:34 AM Hopefully this is my last question for Jorge. You say to not change the resistance on the trainer, I understand why this is done, however on my trainer, when at a resistance of 2, I'm almost in the highest possible gear when at the 70-75%FT range (and when I was at the 95-100% range I started to bounce in the saddle), but when I go to a resistance of 3 I have to either cross chain or shift down on my front cog in order to not toast my legs in less than a few minutes.

Should I just go with R2 for now and up it once I'm at that point, or live with R3 on a smaller cog until my bike fitness builds?

I did both yesterday (by accident) and was baffled as to what to do.


Whay I meant by not changing resistance is more about setting your trainer in the same way everytime your ride i.e. pump tires at the same PSI, if you have a fluid trainer tight the knob the same way, etc. If you have a mag trainer that allows you to change the resistance as long as you set up your trainer the same way every time yes you can change the resistance to match the desire intensity you are shooting for in a given session. If you have a fluid trainer yes it is ok to switch gears to get into the right resistance to achieve the goal. I hope that clears up the confusion.
2009-11-03 7:40 AM
in reply to: #2494734

Master
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Roswell, GA
Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
JorgeM - 2009-11-03 8:15 AM
Lisa B - 2009-11-02 2:47 PM Jorge - question regarding HR zones.  If I use your calculation with my LTHR they do not match my Zones that my coach gave me or the way they are calculated in Training Peaks.  What method are you using?  I am assuming I should use the Zones that I have been given and are using (and will verify this with my coach).  My question is as long as we are consistent does it matter if we use your calculation as opposed to other methods of Zone calculation?

Thanks too for doing this!

Fair question; let me explain why I suggested setting training zones (using a HR monitors) the way I do and why there is a discrepancy with the HR calculators offered here at BT or Trainingpeaks.

I am base training levels (aka training zones) based on the work of Andrew Coggan PhD who has done extensive work with USA Cycling for power training seminars and co-author of the Training with a Power Meter Book. The way he established this training zones is based on physiological adaptatations based on how our body responds to different training intensisties. More specifically he determines power levels of power/pace functional threshold which roughly is the maximum effort we can sustain all for around 60 min. In endurance sports this is commonly referred as LT though scientifically this intensity is more related to the maximum lactate steady state which is the most important physiological determinant of endurance performance, because this integrates VO2max, the % of VO2max that can be sustained for a given duration and cycling efficiency all key components for performance, not to mention it is an excellent way to predict performance.

If you click here you will get a description of the different zones suggested and the reasoning behind it. Given the extensive experience and his work I believe his training levels offer a better way to establish zones to better manage training load and accentuate specific adaptations.

The BT calculator on the other hand is based as far as I can tell off Joel Friel’s 7 training zones. Now I’ve done a bit of research and I haven't been able to find out anything indicating how does Friel defines his suggested training zones (if someone does please share the info) hence I am a bit skeptic of that.  Trainingpeaks gives you the option to choose different ways to set up your traing levels and one of those Friel 7 levels or Coggan 5 trainingl levels. Ask your coach how did he defined your training zones and if you feel more comfortable using those do so, as long as you are consistent you should be fine.

Anyway, I personally like Coggan's levels because 1) there is a physiological explanation behind it 2) He has great credentials when it comes to cycling training and 3) they are simpler to follow.

Now let me remind you; training zones are man created as a way to address different physiological adaptations and to allow us to train more efficiently. But your body doesn’t really know when one zones starts and another ends, they all blend together fort that reason when you are doing work at certain intensity while it will produce more specific adaptations achieved at that intensity you still are producing other adaptations achieved training at other intensities at some degree.

For instance doing interval sessions at threshold power/pace will primarily produce adaptations such as increase muscles glycogen storage, muscle mitochondrial enzymes , increase lactate etc but also adaptations at a lesser degree achieved when training at endurance power/pace (z2) such as improvement of slow twitch muscle fibers fatigue resistance. On the link provided above you can see this illustrated on Table 2.

For those who want to follow the Coggan's training levels just follow the next link and you’ll get an online calculator for Andrew’s HR/power zones. Once you done the test (power or HR) and determine your LTHR (97% of avg for test) or FTP (critical power for 20 and 5 min test) just plug in the value on the calculator and voila, you have your training zones.

Finally, why 97%? well, it is just a guesstimate - In order to obtain your true LTHR or functional power threshold you would need to ride 1 hr all out and that's ideally the best way to test. However that's a very intense test and something not many athletes are willing to go through every 4-6 weeks. The good news is that in general the max effort athletes can sustain for 20-30 min is roughly done @ 95-97% of the max effort they can sustain for 60 min. The actual number might be higher or lower but since it is a guesstimate to begin with as long as you are on the ball park it will work. I hope ths helps to explain as to why I suggest why I do



Thanks for the explaination.  Makes sense.  I looked at TP last night and I think that my zones are calculated using Friel 7. 
For your program (since it's your program) I will just use my LTHR and your percentages and not worry about actual "zones".  What I found last night when I calculated the workout is that the easier parts of the workout are very low HR (lower than my Z1) but the hard parts are above my Z5.  I was worried about being able to go from an easy HR to over max but had no problem following the workout.

And I agree with what someone else said - if this is the "get ready" for the plan can't wait to see what you have in store!


2009-11-03 8:31 AM
in reply to: #2492759

Elite
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
First session done.  I'm using my FTP from the end of last year's plan, and I don't think I'm at the same level at this point.  We'll see what the first test holds next week, but for now I'll stick with last years numbers.
2009-11-03 8:47 AM
in reply to: #2492759

Expert
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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
After talking to my coach,  i am going to be about 3 weeks behind.  But it looks like an awesome program so far and I am excited to start.  I am looking into buying a trainer vs a computrainer.  Any thoughts which is better for a beginner?
2009-11-03 8:54 AM
in reply to: #2492759

Extreme Veteran
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In front of computer when typing this.
Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
Did session 1 last night. Man, I was/was not loving Jorge during those 30s sprints :-) It was fun though and a great workout! Thanks Jorge for putting this on.
2009-11-03 9:13 AM
in reply to: #2494169

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Subject: RE: Winter Cycling Plan Official Thread
spinepa - 2009-11-02 7:49 PM Wow, first day done, if this is the start holy crap what is to follow. Did not realize my conditioning dropped this much. Excited to see this through.

^^My sentiments exactly. 

I also managed to read all the instructions wrong (adjusting throughout the session), had to stop to open a window and turn up the radio (which I couldn't pay attention to in the SLIGHTEST bit during those intervals, anyway!) and somehow ended up ~10 minutes short at the end.  I'm satisfied with my 34-minute sweatfest though.  I'm calling Day 1 a "Logistics Day" and moving on.  I should be in a groove by week 2. 
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