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2011-06-26 10:06 AM

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Champion
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Subject: What would you do?

In my race today I made a very costly error and went off course on the run. Looking back at it (hindsight being 20/20 and all) it was rather dumb of ME... as I "thought" we were being sent off course... nonetheless, I'd like BT's opinion... what would you have done in this scenario.

 

- Didn't get a chance to see the run course in person until today. I remember the course (somewhat) from last year and had a general idea where to go.

- Come off the bike in 2nd/3rd place. 1st place is about 30" up ahead of us.

- We come to the "crossroads." We yell at a volunteer as to which direction, to which she says "Left." Warning bells go off in my head... left goes back onto the highway, NOT the way the course went last year.

- At the road / intersection, we yell at another volunteer, "which way?" He says to follow the other runner (1st place)

- You look behind you, and there are at least 2 other runners you can see hot on your trail.

Obviously, when I don't see the aid station (or the first mile marker) after running over a mile and a half... I know we've gone the wrong way.

1st - 7th place from t2 DNF'd or finished extremely late.

What would you have done? Followed your gut? That's what I thought I would do, but seeing the lead so close, I couldn't bring myself to turn the other way.


For what it's worth, I know it's 100% my fault, as it's the athletes responsibility to know which way to go, so I'm not passing any blame.



2011-06-26 10:17 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Champion
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Subject: RE: What would you do?

I did a similar thing yesterday (but turned around much sooner thanks to a helpful volunteer).

In general, I try to follow these rules, in order of priority:

1. Pavement markings (if they exist).

2. Signs.

3. Volunteers.

4.  My gut.

In my case, I asked which way to go but the volunteer said nothing.  There were no signs or markings, so I went with my gut, which was wrong.  Another volunteer on a bike saw me and biked me down and turned me around.

And yes, both of us should have studied the course in advance.

I acknowledge that it can be very hard to ignore your gut in those situations.  I can't promise that I wouldn't have followed my gut even if the first volunteer had answered my query.

2011-06-26 3:13 PM
in reply to: #3567645

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Veteran
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Subject: RE: What would you do?
I'd definitely follow the volunteer in that situation. Maybe I don't trust myself enough.
2011-06-26 4:01 PM
in reply to: #3567645

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Master
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Subject: RE: What would you do?
Not knowing the course, I would have followed the volunteer and the other runners. That's an awful lot of powerful information pointing in one direction.
2011-06-26 5:50 PM
in reply to: #3567930

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Champion
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Subject: RE: What would you do?

monkeyboy64 - 2011-06-26 5:01 PM Not knowing the course, I would have followed the volunteer and the other runners. That's an awful lot of powerful information pointing in one direction.

 

My interpretation was that the other runners also went off course.  I can very much see the temptation to follow them, especially if my gut was also telling me that it was the right way.

2011-06-26 8:34 PM
in reply to: #3567645

Iron Donkey
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Subject: RE: What would you do?
Was UWMadTri the volunteer??


2011-06-26 11:09 PM
in reply to: #3567645

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Champion
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Subject: RE: What would you do?

This is exactly the situation where I see RD's cover their a$$es with the "it's up to the athlete to know the course" BS. When you are directed by OFFICIAL race personnel, and it's wrong, that IS the race's fault. How are you supposed to not know it isn't a last-second course change?

I most likely have done the same thing.

I remember a stage race I did in Wenatchee. Two miles into the first road race, the lead car takes a right turn. I KNEW the course went straight. Three other riders went straight with me, all the while questioning me if I REALLY knew that was the right way. But eventually we turned around and caught back up to the pack JUST as they were stopping to turn around and get back on course. What would have happened if we'd just kept going? Well, aside from having a very lonely and tiring 60 miles, we may well have been able to pull off a huge win. As long as we weren't DQ'd for not following the official lead vehicle.

2011-06-26 11:51 PM
in reply to: #3568424

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Expert
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Vancouver (not Canada) Washington (not D.C.)
Subject: RE: What would you do?
I know what you are saying about following officials bit most volunteers at an intersection aren't officials, they just know to keep cars from interrupting the race. I've been waived through an intersection incorrectly and blame myself fully. I am the only one in the equation vested in my success.
2011-06-27 12:02 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Subject: RE: What would you do?
There was a similar issue in Washington DC with pros a couple weeks ago.  A jetskier directed pros off course, away from the buoys.  Andy Potts and another pro ignored him and swam the right course.  Potts won, the others could never catch up after the error.  And these guys are racing for $ and points
2011-06-27 12:18 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: What would you do?
I had a police officer point me onto the wrong course, there was a sprint and olympic going on at the same time.  I was 1st in my ag out of the water and 10th overall.  Ended up doing the olympic bike course, it was ridiculous.
2011-06-27 12:25 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: What would you do?

That's a tough one. (Kind of moot to ask what I'd do since I am perpetually lost and always better following someone else's advice unless I am 100% sure of the course).

Yes, it's the athlete's responsibility to know the course, but like Dave said, I think that's a lame excuse for race officials--and volunteers are officials in this capacity--to MISdirect athletes.

This happens in so many races--it almost seems like if there's any room for error at all, this will happen to at least one person during each race (certainly from lack of marking if not actually from an official). Not sure what the answer is (not another rule), but for each individual race, if a director/organizer/official, mark as much and as best as possible? Extremely clear briefings for vols(ha ha)/officials especially but also athletes?

In your position, I think I also would have followed the leader(s) (one assumes he/she of all people would know?)

I'm sorry that happened! You are very tolerant ... even if it is the rule. That's actually very good sportsmanship (but that is also what you are like).



2011-06-27 12:27 AM
in reply to: #3568424

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Subject: RE: What would you do?

My coworker volunteered at an aid station and new absolutely NOTHING about the race, start times, waves, course, or even that there was also a DU and 10k race going on at the same time.  All she knew was that she was supposed to hand out water.  The next day at work she was asking me how some old ladies beat me...and I had to tell her that they only had to run 10k...and they started only 30 minutes after I got into the water for my Oly.

But understandably so...not every volunteer needs to know every detail of the race.  So anytime you openly ask a random volunteer for instruction...whether it's which way to go on the run, what time your wave starts, etc...you have to think for yourself a little if you should believe their answer is correct information.  I understand while you're running...you don't have time to ask follow up questions to make sure the volunteer indeed is giving you the right info...so yeah...that sucks for the OP.  I honestly think that RDs should have cones and cardboard signs with arrows on them to point every turn...so volunteers are not the primary source of direction.  Seems like there was a failure there...and I agree with the poster above that the "responsibility of the participant to know the course" excuse is BS.

What would have been interesting is if the OP trusted his gut, did not ask the volunteer which way to go (because he may have done the race the last 10 years), then the volunteer starts screaming at him he's going the wrong way.  What would you do?

 

2011-06-27 12:32 AM
in reply to: #3568448

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: What would you do?

dmiller5 - 2011-06-27 2:18 PM I had a police officer point me onto the wrong course, there was a sprint and olympic going on at the same time.  I was 1st in my ag out of the water and 10th overall.  Ended up doing the olympic bike course, it was ridiculous.

I'm sorry that happened to you, too

That happened to a guy here at the Bali Tri yesterday but he was 2nd OA out of the water. Pulled a smokin' fast Oly bike course and had the fastest 5K run split for the sprint. The organizers gave him his own podium award ... too bad though, the top prizes here are worth around $5000 or more and there's a little cash, too.

However, here there are organized swims, rides, and runs for both courses in the days beforehand, and you can always take a taxi around it for cheap, so there really isn't any excuse.

2011-06-27 5:42 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Bronze member
Subject: RE: What would you do?
You already know my opinion - total crap. I'm curious if the RD or volunteer had anything to say? I mean 7 people going the wrong way is no joke.
2011-06-27 6:08 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Pro
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Subject: RE: What would you do?
Did you talk to the RD about this? Yes, technically it is the athletes responsibility, but you were mislead by a volunteer that was put in place by the race staff.

Nothing can really be done to the results... but I would hope that the RD would give you an entry into next years race (or another race later on this year if they're a more sizable organizer), something to make right what was partially the race organizations fault.
2011-06-27 9:47 AM
in reply to: #3568445

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Subject: RE: What would you do?

ChrisM - 2011-06-27 12:02 AM There was a similar issue in Washington DC with pros a couple weeks ago.  A jetskier directed pros off course, away from the buoys.  Andy Potts and another pro ignored him and swam the right course.  Potts won, the others could never catch up after the error.  And these guys are racing for $ and points

That was CapTexTri in Austin, TX. If I recall correctly, Andy was the only person in the pro male wave that ignored the jetskier because Andy was the first out of the water minutes ahead of the pack. Some of the pro women caught the pro male pack.



2011-06-27 9:53 AM
in reply to: #3568539

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Champion
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Knoxville area
Subject: RE: What would you do?

audiojan - 2011-06-27 7:08 AM Did you talk to the RD about this? Yes, technically it is the athletes responsibility, but you were mislead by a volunteer that was put in place by the race staff. Nothing can really be done to the results... but I would hope that the RD would give you an entry into next years race (or another race later on this year if they're a more sizable organizer), something to make right what was partially the race organizations fault.

 

No, not yet, although I will later today.

 

I was not quite so level headed about it yesterday and knew that "heated discussion" wasn't the way to go about things, so I just went home. Plus there were a couple of the other guys that went off course already throwing a fit, which I figured would be best if I didn't add to.

2011-06-27 9:59 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: What would you do?
Regardless, you had a great race and should be very happy with how you performed, Chris, the result page doeasn't change that.
2011-06-27 10:02 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Elite
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Ontario
Subject: RE: What would you do?
I would have listened to the volunteer.  You don't always get the opportunity to scout the race route in advance.  The volunteer has a simple job of pointing you in the right direction.  Also the RD's fault for not painting turns on the road or at having signage.
2011-06-27 10:38 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Champion
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Subject: RE: What would you do?
Leegoocrap - 2011-06-26 12:06 PM

What would you have done? Followed your gut?


This is one of the dangers of running near the front of a race as there is a chance the volunteers do not know the course and you don't have anyone to follow if you are unsure of the course. This is one of the reasons that I spend time with my youth/juniors reviewing the course if possible and if not, going over the map so that they know the course. It may not always help in the middle of the race but well worth the time invested IMO.

Sorry to hear about going the wrong way but nice to come off the bike so close to the front and be chasing down first when it happened

Shane
2011-06-27 10:43 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Champion
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Knoxville area
Subject: RE: What would you do?

Much thanks guys.

 

I am happy with the way the race went overall btw

And besides, now I have an excuse to take off early from work the day before. "MUST SCOUT COURSE!"



2011-06-27 10:52 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Master
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Subject: RE: What would you do?
Finally, an advantage to all of us BOPers who just have to follow the herd
2011-06-27 11:11 AM
in reply to: #3567645

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Subject: RE: What would you do?
I am surprised by all the posts saying it is the athlete's responsibility to know the course.  I didn't know this was a rule.  Of course I knew it was always a good idea to know the course, and I always check out the map before the race, but I have always assumed it is the race director's responsibility to have the course properly marked and the volunteers properly informed.  (Then the athlete's responsibility to follow the signs and direction of volunteers)    Is this a USAT rule?  Or just a rule that most races include in their rules?
2011-06-27 11:20 AM
in reply to: #3569097

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Master
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Houston
Subject: RE: What would you do?

abqtj - 2011-06-27 10:52 AM Finally, an advantage to all of us BOPers who just have to follow the herd

Sure for the middle of the back.  When you know there is a good chance the volunteers might have left before you get to the turn you have to know the course.

2011-06-27 11:22 AM
in reply to: #3569158

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Veteran
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Subject: RE: What would you do?
See my response to your race report. This is not an unusual situation with this race director...
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