Improving 5 and 10k times

For now I wouldn't even worry about speed work. Just run more.

to paraphrase some sage advice given by a great BT member: You're wanting the icing on the cake, and you don't have cake yet.

True.  I was just looking for something that was a more effective method than jogging 10k around a track 6 days a week.  But I'll start with that.

Man, that is quite an increase, I better get working!

10-20 is a huge difference. Get it to 20 consistently and then start ramping it up from there. Remember, in order to get better, you have to increase the load. Right now, you'll do that through first, frequency (try and run everyday) and then volume (adding time to your runs. )

Lifestyle change #1 would be to lose weight. Running will be FAR easier if you drop a few pounds.

Treadmills are good...embrace them. I hate them too but they get the job done. The more you run on them, the easier it becomes to pass the time.

Remember to make SMALL incremental changes when adding frequency or volume. At this point, there is NO reason to add intensity. Every run should be done at a comfortable pace leaving you feeling like you could turn around and do the run again. From 20 miles a week up to say 35-40 should take about 8-10 weeks...maybe more if you get small minor set backs. So be patient. 

Once you have some solid frequency and volume, then you can maybe throw in a few hardish runs in there once a week.

I am a novice myself, but I now understand what everyone meant when they said "run, run, then run some more" to improve your times.  

I am on day 27 of a new challenge of running 30 days in a row.  On my long run day this past Sunday I ran 8 miles - all sub 8:00 with an average of 7:35.  Before this challenge I could never have done that.  

You can do strides, sprints, fartleks etc...but the I think the key is to run more.  10-20 miles per week is quite a gap as there is a huge difference between running 10 miles per week, and running 20 miles per week.  

The key is to run more days, even if it is less distance.  There is a big difference in running 3 miles 2 days per week with 1 longer run of 4 miles (3 days total) and running 2 miles 5 days per week.  If I understand correctly, you will benefit much more from running 2 miles 5 days per week than running only 3 days per week.  

Personally, I do a long day on Sunday's - "easy" (1:00 - 1:30 per mile slower than my race pace) runs Mon & Tues...I try to go a little harder Wed, but will take it easy if the legs are still sore...Faster run Thursday, "normal" run Friday and Saturday, then Long and Fast run (race pace) Sunday. I don't worry about strides, sprints etc...and my times have dropped dramatically.  I will be throwing in a rest day or 2 now that my 30 day challenge is done.  

*This is what has worked for me, but I am by no means an expert of any sort when it comes to running.  

Be careful increasing your total mileage.  Don't ramp up too fast.  Good luck.  

Awesome, thanks!  Hopefully the holiday season doesn't hit me to hard

I see what you are saying with the big gap between 10-20 miles, generally I run about 18-20 but occasionally I drop to 12-15 miles on weeks when school hits me hard.

Someone said don't worry about speed work.... well.. worry about speed work. If you get less miles in, but you are doing repeats from 800m (half mile) to 2 miles, your speed will increase dramatically. Do 2 speed workouts a week, 3 days a week steady 4-6 mile runs, and then maybe the last day of the week do a long run, 7-10 miles. 

monday - 5 easy    tuesday - mile repeats (3-4) wednesday- 4 easy Thursday - 800's Friday - 6 steady     Sat- 9 steady

trust me

My plan before posting this was to get up to the 30 mile per week range and then throw in some actual speed work.  The area I run in is all hills it seems (nothing compared to others I'm sure but still) so I feel it hard for me to take it easy when I add miles but hopefully it will be better on the mill. 

Now I am thinking 35 miles per week and see where that gets me.  Maybe just keep up with my current strength training schedule and maintaining my lack of awesomeness in the other two tri disciplines.  If I'm not happy I'll add some speed drills in at 35.

Going to pile in here - you really do have to just run MORE.

Triathletes are the most guilty of this. It's not because they're lazy per se - it's just a reality that running 30+mpw while trying to bike/swim is very time consuming. You may have to really cut back on the B/R while you build up the run.

But for sure, forget about major improvements if you're not even hitting 30mpw in running at least for a training cycle.

I'm same age and same height, though 10 lbs lighter.  One thing that will help is losing 10 lbs, which will make a difference when you get into the longer distances, such as 10K.

My 5k = 18 min, My 10K = 40 min.  I don't follow any program but a good regimen that worked for me is 20-22 miles/week.

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for stepping out of line and suggesting something MORE than just "run more" - phooey on that.

Though I agree with what people are saying and can personally attest that simply by just running more, I also got faster.  Training for IM and a marathon got my miles up, and when I threw in a 10k for fun?  Set a PR without specifically training for it.  Also set PR's for all my shorter distance triathlons...

BUT, I'm also tired with the pat answer "run more" with nothing else added.  What does that MEAN?  Just go out and shuffle your feet every day for a year and you get better?  Maybe, but I also think you can be smart about it and maximize gains by training smart.

I suggest looking for a plan and follow it.  For example this is FREE from Hal Higdon's site to improve your 10k time  Notice, it starts at only 17 miles or so and it DOES include a speed day as well as a crosstrain day, and has specific goals:

It's not just a "run more" concept.  It's structured.  I say, if you already can do 20 miles a week comfortablly, this is good.  If not, look at his beginner plan.

I am also assuming you are not trying to squeeze a bunch of swim and bike in there and want to improve on the run?

Would help if your logs weren't private? (Photo galleries I understand, but logs??)

Run 6 days a week, can do the 3-2-1 pattern. 

This past season I used the program from the book Run Less Run Faster. My 5k time for the last 3 years was 7:30 miles, this year I ran 6:40/mile in my sprint tri. For me this program worked, it may work for you. I really liked the program.

Jeff

Lots of good advice above.

I would add to be patient.  Take your time building up the volume and don't be discouraged if your training speeds seem slow.  Building up run fitness is usually a long process that takes commitment and consistancy.  At the same time, you need to listen to your body and take rest when your body asks for it. 

Kido, agree w/ your post. 

To the OP, a good book to pick up cheaply from amazon or where is Jack Daniels - Running Formula.  Has a lot of great info and even has a 5-15k plan in there that is legit if you are serious and can handle it without hurting yourself.  I've never tried that plan but I've reviewed it a bunch because I reference the book fairly regularly.  $10 very very well spent.  That and Pfitzinger.

If your scared of getting hurt maybe try that BarryP plan everyone seems to like because it can help you build up for awhile. 

Those references will guide you in a more productive way than a few brief posts will.

Yes, those are all great references, but again, for the beginner who is a stranger to anything over 20 miles per week and with no background in running to speak of - 

the priority for awhile is all about getting in those base slow/easy miles and making it your new norm. There's no need to overcomplicate it at this stage - periodization, speedwork, and long runs are totally irrelevant to the new beginner who needs to just get in base miles for a regular basis. Even if you have to WALK all 30 miles+ per week, that'll improve you if you haven't run that much regularly before.

In fact, there is real danger in getting on a training program in these early stages. It's natural to get excited and overambitious after reading about all the neat VO2, lactate threshold, etc. types of training specificity, and start doing them too early. Which = injury. 

When that 30mpw easy run volume seems pretty routine for you - it's a great time to start thinking training program. Until then though, you're simply not running enough volume to sustain real intense or hard workouts unless you've done it in the past already.

This happened to me... I started running last August... I ran my 1st 10K in November.  During training I was happy to run around 9:00 per mile.  My first 10K I ran an average of 7:47 per mile!  Got all excited and set my goal of breaking 7:00 minutes, not realizing their is a big difference in almost 50 seconds per mile.  

Started running faster and longer the next week.  Bam - bye, bye Achilles Tendon!  

Now - 28 miles last week as part of my 30 runs in 30 days challenge.  In only 1 month I have seen my times drop...just from running, running, then running some more (but I did not jump to this much running per week - it was a gradual build before I took on the challenge).  I focus on good running form - and the rest just happened.  I can run 7:30 average for 8-10 miles now.  

As someone else said, I will now focus on sprints, hills, fartleks, strides etc....

Thanks a lot everyone!  I thought my training was public but apparently not.  I'll have to figure that one out. 

I have been doing 20 miles per week for a little over 4 months now over a 6 month period (busted my foot awhile back and had to heal).  I have seen a ton of improvement just from consistently running 5 days a week but it looks like I'll bump it up to six and boost the mileage a bit.  I'd say the biggest thing holding me back is that it's difficult for me to chill out and run easy, I am learning though. 

Anyways, boost the base endurance miles, about mid winter throw in some other work if I feel comfortable with that and just buckle down with consistency.  Oh yeah and drop some weight so I can put it back on over the holidays!

Once again thanks for the tips and future reading material.