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2014-04-21 1:27 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by NXS LB, I have a question for you. Does law enforcement generally use dogs for crowd control? The reason I ask, is that I found it eery, as in the civil rights era, that the BLM agents had dogs at the ready at the Bundy fiasco.

It depends if you have them available.  K-9 units today are generally used for sniffing, not so much for crowd control....some are not even cross trained today since, as you alluded to, there aren't many opportunities to use them like there was back in the 60's with mass demonstrations.

I will say this.......there is very little, if anything, as effective as a well trained k-9 corps for crowd control......the exception being a well trained mounted unit.

I don't know where the k-9 units you are talking about come from.....but I think it's a better alternative than tear gas and rubber bullets.




I agree they are good for crowd control, but I just found it odd that you don't see them at sports riots, occupy wall street, G8 (at least I didn't) but they were front and center there. Maybe thats the difference between state/local and fed. Thanks.


2014-04-21 1:31 PM
in reply to: NXS

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by NXS
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by NXS LB, I have a question for you. Does law enforcement generally use dogs for crowd control? The reason I ask, is that I found it eery, as in the civil rights era, that the BLM agents had dogs at the ready at the Bundy fiasco.

It depends if you have them available.  K-9 units today are generally used for sniffing, not so much for crowd control....some are not even cross trained today since, as you alluded to, there aren't many opportunities to use them like there was back in the 60's with mass demonstrations.

I will say this.......there is very little, if anything, as effective as a well trained k-9 corps for crowd control......the exception being a well trained mounted unit.

I don't know where the k-9 units you are talking about come from.....but I think it's a better alternative than tear gas and rubber bullets.

I agree they are good for crowd control, but I just found it odd that you don't see them at sports riots, occupy wall street, G8 (at least I didn't) but they were front and center there. Maybe thats the difference between state/local and fed. Thanks.

That would be my guess........it also might signal a concern of an armed confrontation....dogs go first in those scenarios.

2014-04-21 4:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

If the numbers I pulled down from the web are correct, it costs a bit under $30/mo. to feed a cow.  BLM grazing fees are $1.35/mo per animal.  Assuming a cow can get all the food it needs grazing (maybe it can't ?) then you'd be saving close to $30/mo in feed costs per head. 

Is the essence of the dispute about paying the $1.35/head monthly grazing fee that would need to be paid for each animal grazing on the government property (I get he maintains it's not government property)?  Is that what the government has been trying to get over the years?



Edited by SevenZulu 2014-04-21 4:41 PM
2014-04-21 5:30 PM
in reply to: SevenZulu

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by SevenZulu

If the numbers I pulled down from the web are correct, it costs a bit under $30/mo. to feed a cow.  BLM grazing fees are $1.35/mo per animal.  Assuming a cow can get all the food it needs grazing (maybe it can't ?) then you'd be saving close to $30/mo in feed costs per head. 

Is the essence of the dispute about paying the $1.35/head monthly grazing fee that would need to be paid for each animal grazing on the government property (I get he maintains it's not government property)?  Is that what the government has been trying to get over the years?

I don't know the dollar amounts in play, but I'd say you're essentially correct.

There's no question the law was changed and that he owes the fees.  It's like you or I arguing that we don't have to pay a speeding ticket because the speed limit used to be 55 and now it's 45.  It is what it is and we have to pay the fine.

There certainly are valid arguments as to "why" the laws were changed and overall ownership of the land in the future but those are irrelevant from the legal standpoint.

There isn't any cost to the federal government if they graze or not because it's not like they're mowing it or anything.  It seems to be more geared towards controlled development of "green" type initiatives and wildlife conservation as being the main drivers for the fees.  I'm not familiar enough with the whole thing to know if they're trying to stop it altogether or simply make him pay the fees required by law.

2014-04-21 5:51 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by SevenZulu

If the numbers I pulled down from the web are correct, it costs a bit under $30/mo. to feed a cow.  BLM grazing fees are $1.35/mo per animal.  Assuming a cow can get all the food it needs grazing (maybe it can't ?) then you'd be saving close to $30/mo in feed costs per head. 

Is the essence of the dispute about paying the $1.35/head monthly grazing fee that would need to be paid for each animal grazing on the government property (I get he maintains it's not government property)?  Is that what the government has been trying to get over the years?

I don't know the dollar amounts in play, but I'd say you're essentially correct.

There's no question the law was changed and that he owes the fees.  It's like you or I arguing that we don't have to pay a speeding ticket because the speed limit used to be 55 and now it's 45.  It is what it is and we have to pay the fine.

There certainly are valid arguments as to "why" the laws were changed and overall ownership of the land in the future but those are irrelevant from the legal standpoint.

There isn't any cost to the federal government if they graze or not because it's not like they're mowing it or anything.  It seems to be more geared towards controlled development of "green" type initiatives and wildlife conservation as being the main drivers for the fees.  I'm not familiar enough with the whole thing to know if they're trying to stop it altogether or simply make him pay the fees required by law.

Yeah, I'd guess he's probably worried that if he abides by the permit process, then the BLM might come back in the future and refuse to issue a grazing permit for the cattle so that the desert tortoise population and the non-indigenous wild horses can run free on the land.

2014-04-21 7:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

I don't have any numbers, but I talked today with a friend who runs field trials for german shorthairs.  He's got some of the top dogs in the country so he ends up knowing a lot of folks who have big tracts of land in Ks., Neb., etc.  He told me that he knows people who allow the feds to place wild mustangs on their land before adoption, relocation, etc.  He said these people get HUGE checks from the feds for the use of their land.  In his words, the ranchers in this dispute don't want to pay the grazing fees which are actually ridiculously cheap for free range cattle on land that doesn't belong to them, but belongs to the Federal govt.  I guess you can make the argument that if the land is owned by the feds it belongs to all of us, but we all know that's not the way it works.  We can't just move into a National park, or do whatever we want on BLM land.  The whole issue is the ranchers don't want to pay for the ranging/feeding of their cattle. 

Where are Kevin Costner and Robert Duvall when we need them? 

 

 

 



Edited by Left Brain 2014-04-21 7:49 PM


2014-04-21 8:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

Originally posted by Left Brain

I'm trying to figure out what the guy with the rifle on the overpass is thinking.   Hell, even the guy with the camera can kill him.  LMAO

I sure home he made the "MILITA SIGHN IN." on time.

Wouldn't putting your name on that list be something you'd want to avoid?

It's hard to say who's watching those boneeads..... but I know this.. if the chit hits the fan I'm not fighting with the folks who write "MILITA SIGHN IN".  

The thing is, if something did go down, it's certain the government would win any armed conflict, but all that would do is inflame the militias and anti-government conspiracy theorists.

By the way, is what the militias are doing legal? I would think there's multiple laws about pointing weapons at Federal officials.

Yeah, I don't know what the heck is going on with that.  I know if we were at a "disturbance" and someone pointed a gun at us it would likely end poorly for the gun pointer.  I don't have any idea how that goofball can do what he's doing unless nobody knew he was.  Dying over a bunch cows seems stupid to me. LOL

When I was a kid growing up in that region, my friend's dad was involved in the apprehension of a fugitive who had already killed officers.  After the arrest, the killer let him know that he'd been in his sights as they closed in on his location.  For whatever reason he decided that he was done with the killing at that point, so my friend's dad came home to his family that night.

A situation like this one here could go bad for a lot of people very quickly.  I'm glad nobody did anything too rash.



Edited by SevenZulu 2014-04-21 8:50 PM
2014-04-21 9:17 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?
It is interesting to note that the Nevada Cattlemens Association are not standing with him, nor any other rancher organization. Nor the Nevada Mining Association, another industry that makes it's living from the use of public lands.

The Utah governor put out a statement that he did not want the cattle brought to Utah. It seems that the Feds had nowhere to take the cattle to sell.

. I think that a lot of his supporters are radicals just itching for a fight - too bad the Bundy's seem to enjoy the attention.

. I put this link on my Facebook, and found out that a morman acquaintance was all fired up, and knew these people. "Hopefully people will read and figure out what really is happening here. If we don't soon figure it out I feel really sorry for my children and grandchildren." I actually figured she had un friended my over my pro marriage equality posts months ago!

2014-04-22 10:12 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by NXS LB, I have a question for you. Does law enforcement generally use dogs for crowd control? The reason I ask, is that I found it eery, as in the civil rights era, that the BLM agents had dogs at the ready at the Bundy fiasco.

It depends if you have them available.  K-9 units today are generally used for sniffing, not so much for crowd control....some are not even cross trained today since, as you alluded to, there aren't many opportunities to use them like there was back in the 60's with mass demonstrations.

I will say this.......there is very little, if anything, as effective as a well trained k-9 corps for crowd control......the exception being a well trained mounted unit.

I don't know where the k-9 units you are talking about come from.....but I think it's a better alternative than tear gas and rubber bullets.

 

8 NOPD officers on horseback is all it takes to clear Bourbon St. at midnight on Mardi Gras.

2014-04-22 10:18 AM
in reply to: RussTKD

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by RussTKD

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by NXS LB, I have a question for you. Does law enforcement generally use dogs for crowd control? The reason I ask, is that I found it eery, as in the civil rights era, that the BLM agents had dogs at the ready at the Bundy fiasco.

It depends if you have them available.  K-9 units today are generally used for sniffing, not so much for crowd control....some are not even cross trained today since, as you alluded to, there aren't many opportunities to use them like there was back in the 60's with mass demonstrations.

I will say this.......there is very little, if anything, as effective as a well trained k-9 corps for crowd control......the exception being a well trained mounted unit.

I don't know where the k-9 units you are talking about come from.....but I think it's a better alternative than tear gas and rubber bullets.

 

8 NOPD officers on horseback is all it takes to clear Bourbon St. at midnight on Mardi Gras.

No doubt....it's awesome to watch those teams work.

2014-04-22 12:37 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by NXS LB, I have a question for you. Does law enforcement generally use dogs for crowd control? The reason I ask, is that I found it eery, as in the civil rights era, that the BLM agents had dogs at the ready at the Bundy fiasco.

It depends if you have them available.  K-9 units today are generally used for sniffing, not so much for crowd control....some are not even cross trained today since, as you alluded to, there aren't many opportunities to use them like there was back in the 60's with mass demonstrations.

I will say this.......there is very little, if anything, as effective as a well trained k-9 corps for crowd control......the exception being a well trained mounted unit.

I don't know where the k-9 units you are talking about come from.....but I think it's a better alternative than tear gas and rubber bullets.




I was in the subway a while ago and an NYPD K9 officer was on the train with his dog (a good-sized German shepherd). It was interesting to see the reaction of the passengers. When the dog first got on, he was, of course, perfectly behaved, docile, and seemed curious and a little sleepy, and all the passengers were saying how adorable he was, because he just looked like a big, cute, sleepy puppy. Then he yawned, and opened this giant mouth full of huge teeth, and suddenly, he wasn't a cute puppy anymore-- and the vibe on the train changed immediately. He was probably just a sniffer dog (why would you need/want a crowd control dog on a subway train?), but you could definitely see how intimidating a big K9 unit dog could be, even one who's just sitting there doing nothing.



2014-04-22 1:00 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by NXS LB, I have a question for you. Does law enforcement generally use dogs for crowd control? The reason I ask, is that I found it eery, as in the civil rights era, that the BLM agents had dogs at the ready at the Bundy fiasco.

It depends if you have them available.  K-9 units today are generally used for sniffing, not so much for crowd control....some are not even cross trained today since, as you alluded to, there aren't many opportunities to use them like there was back in the 60's with mass demonstrations.

I will say this.......there is very little, if anything, as effective as a well trained k-9 corps for crowd control......the exception being a well trained mounted unit.

I don't know where the k-9 units you are talking about come from.....but I think it's a better alternative than tear gas and rubber bullets.

I was in the subway a while ago and an NYPD K9 officer was on the train with his dog (a good-sized German shepherd). It was interesting to see the reaction of the passengers. When the dog first got on, he was, of course, perfectly behaved, docile, and seemed curious and a little sleepy, and all the passengers were saying how adorable he was, because he just looked like a big, cute, sleepy puppy. Then he yawned, and opened this giant mouth full of huge teeth, and suddenly, he wasn't a cute puppy anymore-- and the vibe on the train changed immediately. He was probably just a sniffer dog (why would you need/want a crowd control dog on a subway train?), but you could definitely see how intimidating a big K9 unit dog could be, even one who's just sitting there doing nothing.

You should see them when they are eating people.......everybody runs!!!  LOL

2014-04-23 10:47 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by NXS LB, I have a question for you. Does law enforcement generally use dogs for crowd control? The reason I ask, is that I found it eery, as in the civil rights era, that the BLM agents had dogs at the ready at the Bundy fiasco.

It depends if you have them available.  K-9 units today are generally used for sniffing, not so much for crowd control....some are not even cross trained today since, as you alluded to, there aren't many opportunities to use them like there was back in the 60's with mass demonstrations.

I will say this.......there is very little, if anything, as effective as a well trained k-9 corps for crowd control......the exception being a well trained mounted unit.

I don't know where the k-9 units you are talking about come from.....but I think it's a better alternative than tear gas and rubber bullets.

I was in the subway a while ago and an NYPD K9 officer was on the train with his dog (a good-sized German shepherd). It was interesting to see the reaction of the passengers. When the dog first got on, he was, of course, perfectly behaved, docile, and seemed curious and a little sleepy, and all the passengers were saying how adorable he was, because he just looked like a big, cute, sleepy puppy. Then he yawned, and opened this giant mouth full of huge teeth, and suddenly, he wasn't a cute puppy anymore-- and the vibe on the train changed immediately. He was probably just a sniffer dog (why would you need/want a crowd control dog on a subway train?), but you could definitely see how intimidating a big K9 unit dog could be, even one who's just sitting there doing nothing.

You should see them when they are eating people.......everybody runs!!!  LOL

Yes, but how will they handle the coming Zombie Apocalypse?

2014-04-23 1:57 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?
Originally posted by Left Brain

I don't have any numbers, but I talked today with a friend who runs field trials for german shorthairs.  He's got some of the top dogs in the country so he ends up knowing a lot of folks who have big tracts of land in Ks., Neb., etc.  He told me that he knows people who allow the feds to place wild mustangs on their land before adoption, relocation, etc.  He said these people get HUGE checks from the feds for the use of their land.  In his words, the ranchers in this dispute don't want to pay the grazing fees which are actually ridiculously cheap for free range cattle on land that doesn't belong to them, but belongs to the Federal govt.  I guess you can make the argument that if the land is owned by the feds it belongs to all of us, but we all know that's not the way it works.  We can't just move into a National park, or do whatever we want on BLM land.  The whole issue is the ranchers don't want to pay for the ranging/feeding of their cattle. 

Where are Kevin Costner and Robert Duvall when we need them? 

 

 

 




You rang?





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2014-04-23 1:59 PM
in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?
Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by NXS LB, I have a question for you. Does law enforcement generally use dogs for crowd control? The reason I ask, is that I found it eery, as in the civil rights era, that the BLM agents had dogs at the ready at the Bundy fiasco.

It depends if you have them available.  K-9 units today are generally used for sniffing, not so much for crowd control....some are not even cross trained today since, as you alluded to, there aren't many opportunities to use them like there was back in the 60's with mass demonstrations.

I will say this.......there is very little, if anything, as effective as a well trained k-9 corps for crowd control......the exception being a well trained mounted unit.

I don't know where the k-9 units you are talking about come from.....but I think it's a better alternative than tear gas and rubber bullets.

I was in the subway a while ago and an NYPD K9 officer was on the train with his dog (a good-sized German shepherd). It was interesting to see the reaction of the passengers. When the dog first got on, he was, of course, perfectly behaved, docile, and seemed curious and a little sleepy, and all the passengers were saying how adorable he was, because he just looked like a big, cute, sleepy puppy. Then he yawned, and opened this giant mouth full of huge teeth, and suddenly, he wasn't a cute puppy anymore-- and the vibe on the train changed immediately. He was probably just a sniffer dog (why would you need/want a crowd control dog on a subway train?), but you could definitely see how intimidating a big K9 unit dog could be, even one who's just sitting there doing nothing.

You should see them when they are eating people.......everybody runs!!!  LOL

Yes, but how will they handle the coming Zombie Apocalypse?




They'll be great, until they themselves get bitten, and they turn into K9 zombie attack -dogs. Didn't you see "I Am Legend"?
2014-04-25 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?


2014-04-25 2:23 PM
in reply to: crowny2

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by crowny2

Guess one could add Proud Racist to the title of the thread?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/24/heres-video-of-cliven-bundy-making-those-racial-remarks-about-the-negro-and-slavery/ 

I saw this on the news the other day.  Holy smokes, what an idiot.  /facepalm

Even if he was trying to simply make a point about people being beholden to the government not being a good thing (which I agree with), could he have possibly come up with a more ridiculous and insulting way of saying it.

I was mildly sympathetic to his plight over the land stuff, but I think it's safe to say I don't feel too sympathetic for him anymore.

2014-04-25 2:28 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by crowny2

Guess one could add Proud Racist to the title of the thread?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/24/heres-video-of-cliven-bundy-making-those-racial-remarks-about-the-negro-and-slavery/ 

I saw this on the news the other day.  Holy smokes, what an idiot.  /facepalm

Even if he was trying to simply make a point about people being beholden to the government not being a good thing (which I agree with), could he have possibly come up with a more ridiculous and insulting way of saying it.

I was mildly sympathetic to his plight over the land stuff, but I think it's safe to say I don't feel too sympathetic for him anymore.

Watched the live CNN interview today. I don't think he has any clue how bad he makes himself look. Every time he opened his mouth, something inflammatory came out. CNN didn't even know what to do when he held up the dead calf.

2014-04-25 2:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

The guy is an absolute moron.

2014-04-25 2:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?
Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by crowny2

Guess one could add Proud Racist to the title of the thread?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/24/heres-video-of-cliven-bundy-making-those-racial-remarks-about-the-negro-and-slavery/ 

I saw this on the news the other day.  Holy smokes, what an idiot.  /facepalm

Even if he was trying to simply make a point about people being beholden to the government not being a good thing (which I agree with), could he have possibly come up with a more ridiculous and insulting way of saying it.

I was mildly sympathetic to his plight over the land stuff, but I think it's safe to say I don't feel too sympathetic for him anymore.

Watched the live CNN interview today. I don't think he has any clue how bad he makes himself look. Every time he opened his mouth, something inflammatory came out. CNN didn't even know what to do when he held up the dead calf.




I thought he did a good job of explaining himself -- anybody of color who takes from the government would be better of being worked to death, beaten, hung, whipped or otherwise lynched, or murdered. Unless its him, of course, when he takes from the government it's called being a `patriot' and an `American.' Yeah, I think he got his point across.
2014-04-25 2:51 PM
in reply to: BrianRunsPhilly

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?
He can't seem to help himself. Here's what he had to say today, by way of an explanation:

"Maybe I sinned... and maybe I don't know what I actually said. ... If I say Negro or black or slave ... if those people cannot take those kind of words and not be (offended), then Martin Luther King hasn't got his job done yet. ... We need to get over this prejudice stuff,"

Oy.


Um, no, MLK hasn't 'got his job done yet'. Due in part to the fact that some other ignorant racist idiot went and killed him, oh, a few decades ago, give or take. Or didn't the news make it all the way out the ranch yet?


2014-04-25 2:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Maybe he is hoping that if he ends up having to pay the exorbitant $1.35/head grazing fees, that he can get some slave labor to help offset the expense.  So, what's next?  Ancestors had children for wives, and they were much better off than today's kids?

2014-04-25 2:56 PM
in reply to: mr2tony

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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by mr2tony
Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by crowny2

Guess one could add Proud Racist to the title of the thread?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/24/heres-video-of-cliven-bundy-making-those-racial-remarks-about-the-negro-and-slavery/ 

I saw this on the news the other day.  Holy smokes, what an idiot.  /facepalm

Even if he was trying to simply make a point about people being beholden to the government not being a good thing (which I agree with), could he have possibly come up with a more ridiculous and insulting way of saying it.

I was mildly sympathetic to his plight over the land stuff, but I think it's safe to say I don't feel too sympathetic for him anymore.

Watched the live CNN interview today. I don't think he has any clue how bad he makes himself look. Every time he opened his mouth, something inflammatory came out. CNN didn't even know what to do when he held up the dead calf.

I thought he did a good job of explaining himself -- anybody of color who takes from the government would be better of being worked to death, beaten, hung, whipped or otherwise lynched, or murdered. Unless its him, of course, when he takes from the government it's called being a `patriot' and an `American.' Yeah, I think he got his point across.

The sad part is, I think you did a pretty good job summarizing what he said.  

2014-04-25 2:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by Left Brain

The guy is an absolute moron.

Is that your professional opinion?

 

2014-04-25 2:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn He can't seem to help himself. Here's what he had to say today, by way of an explanation: "Maybe I sinned... and maybe I don't know what I actually said. ... If I say Negro or black or slave ... if those people cannot take those kind of words and not be (offended), then Martin Luther King hasn't got his job done yet. ... We need to get over this prejudice stuff," Oy. Um, no, MLK hasn't 'got his job done yet'. Due in part to the fact that some other ignorant racist idiot went and killed him, oh, a few decades ago, give or take. Or didn't the news make it all the way out the ranch yet?

I think that idiot is too stupid to bring up Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks......I think some other idiot(s) coached him to that......and he couldn't even make a coherent thought out of it, no matter how dumb the premise would be or which dumbarse thought it up.

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