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2015-06-12 10:55 AM

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Subject: Humbling First Full IM
I've been pretty quiet since finishing IM Texas a couple of weeks ago, and mostly that is due to simply being humbled by it. Someone recommended that I post about it, and the lessons I've learned, so here goes:

I went into the race with the goal of being in the low 10's and hopefully even getting sub 10 hrs. I didn't come close to that and ended up finishing just over 12 hours. 12:10 to be exact.

Overall I'm happy I did it, but it didn't go at all as I planned. I was totally unprepared for the climbing on the bike, which is really what did me in. I continually heard the course described as "rolling hills". Well, that might as well said "Swiss Alps" as far as I'm concerned. As an example, the long ride route I did for my 100-milers going in to the race had a total elevation gain of about 400', the race route had an elevation gain of 3684' that's almost 10 times the elevation gain. The good news is that (much to all the great advice I've received on this forum) I realized I was outgunned early in the bike and by mile 20 I backed way off and just watched my HR. I came off the bike much slower than I planned, but feeling ok. At the start of the marathon the heat index was somewhere in the low to mid 90's, but if it's one thing I'm used to it's heat. I ran the first 20 miles consistently at an easy pace, around 8:30-8:45, but I had to run/walk the last 6.2 and the last two miles were a sufferfest. I ended up finishing the marathon in 4:22, which was nowhere close to where I had planned it.

I feel like it was an accomplishment, but I feel like I "survived" it and didn't "race" it, and I don't like that. I want to race an IM. So I'm not done. I'm planning on doing IM Cozumel in 2016, it will be hot, humid and flat, which is exactly what I'm used to.

The lessons that I took away from this are:

1. It's really important to train to the conditions of the race. If it's hot, train in heat, if it's hilly, train on hills, etc. I accepted everyone's description of the course being "rolling hills" and brushed it off. I shouldn't have. As noted, it was 10 times the elevation I'm used to.

2. One year into triathlon is not enough to race an IM, at least not for mortals like me. It was enough to finish it. I figured that since I finished a HIM after 6 months and managed a sub-5 hour time, that with another 6 months of training, that'd I would be able to do the same on the IM...not quite.

3. An IM is a lot more than double a HIM...maybe not mathematically, but in effort it certainly is.

4. One year on a bike is not enough to push through diversity on a 100+ mile course

5. I didn't run enough in training. Some of that was due to an injury (broken toe) but I should have done more 20-milers

6. It is really hard to pee on the bike. I couldn't do it and had to stop. Weird, we spend our first 5 years of life trying not to ourselves (and for some of us, some drunken times in our 20's) but when you actually want to, you cant.


2015-06-12 11:12 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM

I certainly agree with your conclusions and lessons learned.  Not having done either half or full ... I imagine the full is like doing 3 half's.  Many of your lessons apply to shorter races as well, wherein we all can do more with training.  Especially with time and distance to build ones base and depth. 

Keep it up ... I'm sure you'll do well with your next one.

2015-06-12 11:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
1. You did it.
2. Nobody can take that from you.
3. Well done.
4. Few people perform as well on stage as they do during rehearsal. And those that do spend years attaining that ability. And over the course of 140+ miles, that can add up.

And heat. Man. We had such a cool spring round here. Went from cool to STL heat and humidity overnight. It's slowed me way down.

Think of all you learned and how you can use it in racing...and life. No need to be humbled.
2015-06-12 11:18 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Congrats on the IM. If that was your first, a 10 hour finish goal with only a year of experience (and no previous IM?) seems a bit ambitious, but I appreciate the goal. Regardless, a 12 hour finish with walking is still very impressive to me. Good job and way to break it down and learn some lessons from the experience so you can approach the next one with a better plan. As you said, a full IM is nothing at all like two HIM, it's a totally different beast, and now you know what it might take to get to your goal.
2015-06-12 12:01 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Thanks alot for this! I'm racing my first IM this coming November.
2015-06-12 12:11 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM

Congratulations on finishing!

Most of your conclusions are spot on.  It sounds like it was a good educational experience.

One thing that you may not like hearing, though, is that Texas IS a rolling course.  If you do more races around the country, your perspective will change, and you'll realize that you're either blessed, or cursed, depending on your perspective, living in Florida where there are really only small hills to be found up on the panhandle, and everything else is a pancake compared to most places.  The consensus tends to be that a course isn't hilly unless the elevation change is in the neighborhood of 100' per mile.  For an IM, that would be closer to 10,000' of elevation change, not 3,700'.  To put it a little more in perspective, IMLP has 4,000' of gain per loop (x 2 loop course = 8,000' total), and most seem to consider it a relatively hilly course, but not brutally so.  Eventually, you may even decide that you like the challenge of some hills on the bike.  :-)

Given that you've only been doing this for a year, I think you did quite well.  Again, Congratulations!

 



2015-06-12 12:16 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
IM is a building process. You're not going to knock it out of the park on the first try, at least not for most people.

I'd say well done. You had lofty goals and yet as conditions changed, you adopted, and did in a methodical way that got you to the finish.
So you slipped on your goal...it happens. Now you've got one under your belt. You learned, and will be back.

The best thing is you'll have an easy target for a PR.

2015-06-12 12:16 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
You live in Miami, right? Like the closest thing you got to hills is highway overpasses? How in the heck can you reasonably prepare for >3000 feet of elevation change? To me, sounds like you did awesome.
2015-06-12 1:18 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Thanks everyone for your comments and congrats. I do realize that relative to most areas, this is not a particularly hilly course, but that's the thing about relativity....it's relative. So for me, that was VERY hilly.

I live in the Florida Keys, so the small chain of islands about 60 miles south of Miami and they are absolutely flat. There is a bridge that has a height of 65' that comes into Key Largo that I can ride on. I've started once a week riding to it, then back and forth over it then coming back. It makes for about a 600' elevation gain for a 30 mile ride. It's 10 miles there and back of complete flat. For the "hill" portion of that workout it's 10 miles at 500' gain. So that's about the best I can do and although I don't plan to race any courses with hills, I am going to keep incorporating it into my training plan as much as possible. It's not much, but it's better than nothing.

If I could go back in time, I would have included enough passes over the bridge in my long rides to simulate the same elevation change in the IM. That may have meant spending just about the whole ride on there, but so be it. The races I see in my future are all flat (as far as I'm aware), Beach to Battleship HIM, IM Cozumel, Naples, FL HITS HIM are the ones I have in front of me.
2015-06-12 1:55 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM

Congrats on your finish.  12:10 is nothing to sneeze at for your first IM attempt, after only one year in the sport, on a course that isn't really super fast.  It was the North American championship, so the pro field was pretty deep...yet other than one guy going 8:07...a lot of the male pros were in the 8:25-8:30 range.  Including some guys like Ben Hoffman and Lionel Sanders.

I don't see it in your race logs, but what was your HIM time?  Was it in the 4:25-4:35 range?  Because that's probably what you would have needed to do in order to even sniff a sub 10 at IM Texas.  Especially since I'm guessing your HIM was in Florida where it's flat and times tend to be a a little quicker.  The course record at IM Florida is about 14 minutes faster than it is at IM Texas...just for some perspective.

IM Texas does indeed look like it's rolling as Don already mentioned.  I'd say 3-4k feet of climbing is a pretty tame IM bike course as far as climbing goes.  There are other factors that can make a bike course faster or slower...like road surface, wind, and heat though.  It's not just about total elevation gain.

I think you're beating yourself up because you might have had unrealistic expectations.  My guess is that a 11ish hour time should have been your goal, and you didn't come too far from that given this is only your first year in the sport.  My first and only IM was a 13:45...and my HIM PR is 5:17 on basically the exact same course.  It was done my 4th year in the sport...so just goes to show that you don't always have your best day during IM no matter how hard you train or how badly you want to do well. 

Again...congrats on your finish.

2015-06-12 2:03 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM

Originally posted by Jason N

Congrats on your finish.  12:10 is nothing to sneeze at for your first IM attempt, after only one year in the sport, on a course that isn't really super fast.  It was the North American championship, so the pro field was pretty deep...yet other than one guy going 8:07...a lot of the male pros were in the 8:25-8:30 range.  Including some guys like Ben Hoffman and Lionel Sanders.

I don't see it in your race logs, but what was your HIM time?  Was it in the 4:25-4:35 range?  Because that's probably what you would have needed to do in order to even sniff a sub 10 at IM Texas.  Especially since I'm guessing your HIM was in Florida where it's flat and times tend to be a a little quicker.  The course record at IM Florida is about 14 minutes faster than it is at IM Texas...just for some perspective.

IM Texas does indeed look like it's rolling as Don already mentioned.  I'd say 3-4k feet of climbing is a pretty tame IM bike course as far as climbing goes.  There are other factors that can make a bike course faster or slower...like road surface, wind, and heat though.  It's not just about total elevation gain.

I think you're beating yourself up because you might have had unrealistic expectations.  My guess is that a 11ish hour time should have been your goal, and you didn't come too far from that given this is only your first year in the sport.  My first and only IM was a 13:45...and my HIM PR is 5:17 on basically the exact same course.  It was done my 4th year in the sport...so just goes to show that you don't always have your best day during IM no matter how hard you train or how badly you want to do well. 

Again...congrats on your finish.

IM is a tough distance - you put all your marbles in one jar and hope it all goes well.  Just surviving it is always something to plan for  as part of your race strategy.  Performing is a much more tricky business. There are so many factors and especially for your first you just can't predict how your body will handle it. 

Don't let your times goals get in the way of what you achieved. Your time is really really good but in the end, your time only matters to you and if it is not good enough in your mind you can never really enjoy your accomplishment. 

 



2015-06-12 2:11 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Like everyone said before. Congrats on your IM and your time. I have done 2 and I am nowhere close to that time. However, one thing I learned as I improved dramatically from the first to the second IM is that training on the bike is the most critical. I wouldn't spend too much time in more 20 mile runs. I think your running is probably fine. Instead focus on more time and intensity on the bike. If you improve the bike and hold your current run training both your bike and run will improve. IMO in IM it is all about proper execution on the bike.
2015-06-12 2:24 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Originally posted by Jason N

Congrats on your finish.  12:10 is nothing to sneeze at for your first IM attempt, after only one year in the sport, on a course that isn't really super fast.  It was the North American championship, so the pro field was pretty deep...yet other than one guy going 8:07...a lot of the male pros were in the 8:25-8:30 range.  Including some guys like Ben Hoffman and Lionel Sanders.

I don't see it in your race logs, but what was your HIM time?  Was it in the 4:25-4:35 range?  Because that's probably what you would have needed to do in order to even sniff a sub 10 at IM Texas.  Especially since I'm guessing your HIM was in Florida where it's flat and times tend to be a a little quicker.  The course record at IM Florida is about 14 minutes faster than it is at IM Texas...just for some perspective.

IM Texas does indeed look like it's rolling as Don already mentioned.  I'd say 3-4k feet of climbing is a pretty tame IM bike course as far as climbing goes.  There are other factors that can make a bike course faster or slower...like road surface, wind, and heat though.  It's not just about total elevation gain.

I think you're beating yourself up because you might have had unrealistic expectations.  My guess is that a 11ish hour time should have been your goal, and you didn't come too far from that given this is only your first year in the sport.  My first and only IM was a 13:45...and my HIM PR is 5:17 on basically the exact same course.  It was done my 4th year in the sport...so just goes to show that you don't always have your best day during IM no matter how hard you train or how badly you want to do well. 

Again...congrats on your finish.




My HIM time was 4:59, so just barely south of 5 hours. It was on a flat Florida course. I thought I could see more improvement simply because it's my first year so I'm seeing pretty large gains, especially on the bike.

I'm spoiled on two fronts on the bike where I train, one is that it is pancake flat and second is that all of the roads in the area have brand new bike lanes (when I say "all the roads", I mean, "the road"...there's really only one main road that strings the islands together) so it is super smooth. There were a couple of stretches at IMTX where I thought my bike was going to fall apart it was so rough...totally unexpected and made for a lot of rolling resistance.
2015-06-12 3:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Originally posted by 3mar


My HIM time was 4:59, so just barely south of 5 hours. It was on a flat Florida course. I thought I could see more improvement simply because it's my first year so I'm seeing pretty large gains, especially on the bike.

I'm spoiled on two fronts on the bike where I train, one is that it is pancake flat and second is that all of the roads in the area have brand new bike lanes (when I say "all the roads", I mean, "the road"...there's really only one main road that strings the islands together) so it is super smooth. There were a couple of stretches at IMTX where I thought my bike was going to fall apart it was so rough...totally unexpected and made for a lot of rolling resistance.


Congratulations!

The rule of thumb is if you do 5hrs on a HIM, you do (2x that + 1hr) in identical conditions for the IM. Identical conditions means same wetsuit rules, same course topology, same heat humidity....

IMTX is a tough course. Beware Cozumel can throw you some curve balls with swim current and wind.

Your goals were lofty. They were a little naive, but I think that's part of your charm. It's that can do attitude that will get you to Kona one day. You are talented but most important, you have the ability to be logical about things.

If I were you, I'd get a good coach.



Edited by marcag 2015-06-12 3:06 PM
2015-06-12 4:02 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by 3mar


My HIM time was 4:59, so just barely south of 5 hours. It was on a flat Florida course. I thought I could see more improvement simply because it's my first year so I'm seeing pretty large gains, especially on the bike.

I'm spoiled on two fronts on the bike where I train, one is that it is pancake flat and second is that all of the roads in the area have brand new bike lanes (when I say "all the roads", I mean, "the road"...there's really only one main road that strings the islands together) so it is super smooth. There were a couple of stretches at IMTX where I thought my bike was going to fall apart it was so rough...totally unexpected and made for a lot of rolling resistance.


Congratulations!

The rule of thumb is if you do 5hrs on a HIM, you do (2x that + 1hr) in identical conditions for the IM. Identical conditions means same wetsuit rules, same course topology, same heat humidity....

IMTX is a tough course. Beware Cozumel can throw you some curve balls with swim current and wind.

Your goals were lofty. They were a little naive, but I think that's part of your charm. It's that can do attitude that will get you to Kona one day. You are talented but most important, you have the ability to be logical about things.

If I were you, I'd get a good coach.




Thanks. I realized they were lofty, but what the h-e-l-l right, if you're going to do something, might as well go for it!!

Wind and heat are what I deal with everyday, so I'm fine with that. Cozumel is physically the closest IM to me. Remember I live on a very small island in the same body of water. So I deal with the same heat and the same winds. Just no stinking hills!!

I actually did have a good coach for the IM but had to stop using him for now. I dropped a lot of money up to and including the IM so I'm backing off and that was something that had to go.
2015-06-12 5:12 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM

Congrats on the IM! 

Sounds like you needed to spend a few weeks in in Clermont FL and ride the hills repeatedly.  IIRC you can do 3 loops up there for 100mi and get close to that elevation change.  Or get a CompuTrainer or similar trainer that allows you to ride courses with some simulation.

Either way I say you rocked it!



2015-06-12 5:14 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM

Nothing to be ashamed of, no problem with 12 hour IM finish. You did it, now enjoy and don't apologize or be disappointed.

I did my first IM race last year in Lousiville and finished in 14 hours. I had a good swim and great bike. The heat got to me and stomach problems started in the run. Puking constantly and had to walk a lot. I crossed the finish line, puked again and got two IVs in the Med unit. My blood pressure was extremely low.

I was in a funk after the race because 14 hours was not what I expected. My wife talked me into signing up for B2B which I completed and had a much better race.

I look back now and realize there was no problem with my 14 hour IM in the Louisville heat. I am take more pride in the Louisville race and what I was able to push through in order to finish.

I think you will look back after some time has passed and feel better about your race.

Again, great job!
2015-06-12 5:29 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Originally posted by 3mar
I actually did have a good coach for the IM but had to stop using him for now. I dropped a lot of money up to and including the IM so I'm backing off and that was something that had to go.


Understood. But you need a power meter :-)
2015-06-12 6:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM

An Ironman is almost as much about execution as it is fitness.  You can fake your way through sprints, olympics, and often half irons on fitness alone.  You can't overpower 140.6.  Miscues in execution will certainly manifest into problems at some point.  That execution success and failure most often comes from the bike ride.  People bike too hard during that 112 miles.  Then they blame their nutrition or their fitness or sodium intake or whatever.  Slowing down really does wonders.  The root cause of the vast majority of IM blow-ups is poor bike execution.

It seems you recognized that you were overbiking early and adapted.  What you didn't realized was that you ran WAY TOO FAST for the first 20 miles of the IM marathon.  You thought 8:30-8:45 was easy pace, and maybe it is on a normal training day where you hadn't been swimming and cycling for almost 8 hours.  On that day and 8:30 pace was probably teetering on suicide pace.  You should've started 9:15 and picked up the pace every few miles if, and only if, you were feeling good.  You mention HR on the bike, did you have HR on the run?  If so, what was you HR looking like?  My guess is that 8:30-8:45 pace almost a zone higher than where you wanted it... and eventually you blew up. 

Texas is a tough course due to the heat and humidity.  It's overall not that intimidating of a course from a topography standpoint but certainly challenging coming from Key West.  I'd suggest never registering for Whistler or Tahoe if you think Texas is hilly.  You might think you're climbing Everest on a bike. 

To address your numbered points...

1. It is important to replicate race conditions as much as possible but that's often not feasible and/or impossible.  You have the heat and humidity part covered.  You can "simulate" riding hills on the trainer by riding in harder gears at lower cadence.  It's not the same but you have to play the cards you were dealt.

2. More experience and base endurance helps but it's not a be all, end all.

3. Kind of.  It's 2x the distance but also done at far less intensity (if executed well) than a HIM.  That obviously leads to more than double the time as your pacing is much slower.

4. See #2 but what was you weekly bike volume looking like?

5. Don't get wrapped up in the long run mythology.  I did IMAZ on zero run training in 2012 due to a foot injury (and still outran 70% of the field), did another three IM's in 11 months and my longest training run was 11 miles (and nearly broke 4 hours in the marathon).  I never once thought, "Damn, wish I would've run more long runs."  Run training is more about volume, consistency, and quality, than it is one long run.  A 20 mile training run is absurd in my book.  The recovery from that is probably too much.  Not saying to follow my 10 mile run example either but it worked for me.  Despite only doing 10-11 mile long runs, I averaged 40+ miles per week during peak weeks and ran 52 or 54 miles during my biggest run week.

6. Peeing on the bike does take some practice.

 

Good job regardless.  Learn from it.  Try a flatter IM next like FL or AZ for comparison.



Edited by GMAN 19030 2015-06-12 6:03 PM
2015-06-12 6:24 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM

Originally posted by 3mar  I actually did have a good coach for the IM but had to stop using him for now. I dropped a lot of money up to and including the IM so I'm backing off and that was something that had to go.

I apologize for hijacking your thread, but I'm curious about this.  You thought you had a shot at 10 hours, but your HIM was just under 5 hours, making a 10 hour IM impossible assuming you raced the HIM and fitness was similar.  I'm not criticizing you or your coach.  I'm mostly curious about how other coaches operate.

Didn't you and your coach discuss realistic times and goals?  Did he provide a race plan for you that detailed how to execute the race?

 

2015-06-12 6:35 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by 3mar  I actually did have a good coach for the IM but had to stop using him for now. I dropped a lot of money up to and including the IM so I'm backing off and that was something that had to go.

I apologize for hijacking your thread, but I'm curious about this.  You thought you had a shot at 10 hours, but your HIM was just under 5 hours, making a 10 hour IM impossible assuming you raced the HIM and fitness was similar.  I'm not criticizing you or your coach.  I'm mostly curious about how other coaches operate.

Didn't you and your coach discuss realistic times and goals?  Did he provide a race plan for you that detailed how to execute the race?

 




The time thing was mine and in no way part of the race plan. The race plan was executed and it resulted in a time slower than what I hoped but the time itself was never part of the plan.


2015-06-12 6:36 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by 3mar
I actually did have a good coach for the IM but had to stop using him for now. I dropped a lot of money up to and including the IM so I'm backing off and that was something that had to go.


Understood. But you need a power meter :-)


That kind of talk can land a man in trouble.
2015-06-12 6:42 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

You can't overpower 140.6.




That about sums it up.
2015-06-12 7:12 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
Originally posted by jhaack39

1. You did it.
2. Nobody can take that from you.
3. Well done.
4. Few people perform as well on stage as they do during rehearsal. And those that do spend years attaining that ability. And over the course of 140+ miles, that can add up.

And heat. Man. We had such a cool spring round here. Went from cool to STL heat and humidity overnight. It's slowed me way down.

Think of all you learned and how you can use it in racing...and life. No need to be humbled.


This is absolutely spot on. You are an Ironman!! Well done!!! Regardless of how well or how not so well a race goes, when it is an Ironman, it will be with you for life that you finished ... and what do you mean you were still wetting yourself at age 5?
2015-06-14 11:04 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Humbling First Full IM
#5 was my weakness as well...

As for #1 dont you live in Florida? The are very few real hills in the entire state.

Just keep these in mind when you sign up for Whistler, Tremblant, Placid, Savageman.

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author : mikericci
comments : 0
This Intermediate 20 week plan is a quick ramp up in overall volume, but with 20 weeks to train only, it is a gradual and safe approach because of the alternating weeks of the long run/bike.
 
date : October 24, 2005
author : mikericci
comments : 3
This program should be used for an athlete whose goal is to run a marathon in the 3:00-4:30 range and has a good running base in the past 8-12 weeks.
date : October 2, 2005
author : Tri Swim Coach
comments : 0
Here are the top 5 challenges in learning how to breathe in freestyle, along with the remedies on how to get over theme. Includes a 2250yard/meter workout.
 
date : April 3, 2005
author : sherrick
comments : 19
This training plan is written to prepare you for your first Ironman. While just a beginner’s plan, the hours per week start at a significant 8 hours.