Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders (Page 2)
-
No new posts
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
|
2015-07-17 3:59 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Member 2098 Simsbury, Connecticut | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by brigby1 Haha. Randee, I think you're looking at a whole array instead of trying to isolate aero vs not. And think you'd be fine with at least lower profile aero rims. Don't know you'd want the 80mm ones I use in windy conditions though even though I've been fine. There is the possibility of mixing sizes too. Like 40 front and 60 rear. The front is the one that affects handle, and by a considerable margin. Could still stay with the basics if that still makes you nervous, or if mixing sizes will mess with the appearance too much! I've never tried them so I don't know how they handle! The only thing that makes me nervous is buying the "dash saddle" of wheels |
|
2015-07-17 5:17 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Left Brain I agree with LB to a point. If you are not putting out a lot of power, heavier aero wheels may not help you at all. I do not know where that power threshold would be, I imagine it you would be talking about someone putting out less than 150 watts. If you talking about aero-wheels that weight the same or less than the box wheels, I think that argument goes away. And I will answer you two by saying that yes, in a wind tunnel, under perfect conditions, there will always be watts saved with deep wheels. Unfortunately, nobody ever rides in those conditions and the gains that may be generated by deep wheels are not even close to being worth the expense compared to other cycling upgrades. In the case of people who don't generate much power, I would bet that's even more true......which is probably where the LBS guy was coming from. I would say he did the OP a favor rather than trying to sell her something that may potentially be a waste of money. Yeah, we can all spend our money however we want.....but I like a LBS that is realistic and not greedy.
There are A LOT of people putting out less than 150 watts.....especially smaller and inexperienced riders. You might want to browse through this thread and see what type of speed some guys are putting up at ~150 watts. HAHAHA!! Can you help me out a bit......I started backwards and went through 3 pages and haven't found anyone at 150 yet......I'm not going through all 56 pages. |
2015-07-17 5:39 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Left Brain I agree with LB to a point. If you are not putting out a lot of power, heavier aero wheels may not help you at all. I do not know where that power threshold would be, I imagine it you would be talking about someone putting out less than 150 watts. If you talking about aero-wheels that weight the same or less than the box wheels, I think that argument goes away. And I will answer you two by saying that yes, in a wind tunnel, under perfect conditions, there will always be watts saved with deep wheels. Unfortunately, nobody ever rides in those conditions and the gains that may be generated by deep wheels are not even close to being worth the expense compared to other cycling upgrades. In the case of people who don't generate much power, I would bet that's even more true......which is probably where the LBS guy was coming from. I would say he did the OP a favor rather than trying to sell her something that may potentially be a waste of money. Yeah, we can all spend our money however we want.....but I like a LBS that is realistic and not greedy.
There are A LOT of people putting out less than 150 watts.....especially smaller and inexperienced riders. You might want to browse through this thread and see what type of speed some guys are putting up at ~150 watts. HAHAHA!! Can you help me out a bit......I started backwards and went through 3 pages and haven't found anyone at 150 yet......I'm not going through all 56 pages. This is all just a variation on the myth that you must go X mph to benefit from a disc (or whatever aero item you want). And yes there are times where someone tests worse with a particular piece of gear. But that doesn't extend to the general case. |
2015-07-17 5:50 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Left Brain I agree with LB to a point. If you are not putting out a lot of power, heavier aero wheels may not help you at all. I do not know where that power threshold would be, I imagine it you would be talking about someone putting out less than 150 watts. If you talking about aero-wheels that weight the same or less than the box wheels, I think that argument goes away. And I will answer you two by saying that yes, in a wind tunnel, under perfect conditions, there will always be watts saved with deep wheels. Unfortunately, nobody ever rides in those conditions and the gains that may be generated by deep wheels are not even close to being worth the expense compared to other cycling upgrades. In the case of people who don't generate much power, I would bet that's even more true......which is probably where the LBS guy was coming from. I would say he did the OP a favor rather than trying to sell her something that may potentially be a waste of money. Yeah, we can all spend our money however we want.....but I like a LBS that is realistic and not greedy.
There are A LOT of people putting out less than 150 watts.....especially smaller and inexperienced riders. You might want to browse through this thread and see what type of speed some guys are putting up at ~150 watts. HAHAHA!! Can you help me out a bit......I started backwards and went through 3 pages and haven't found anyone at 150 yet......I'm not going through all 56 pages. Yeah, that thread is a hotbed of cycling beasts but here are a few I found. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=3500017#3500017 http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=3521098#3521098 http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=3849926#3849926 http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=3916919#3916919
|
2015-07-17 5:51 PM in reply to: spudone |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by spudone Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Left Brain I agree with LB to a point. If you are not putting out a lot of power, heavier aero wheels may not help you at all. I do not know where that power threshold would be, I imagine it you would be talking about someone putting out less than 150 watts. If you talking about aero-wheels that weight the same or less than the box wheels, I think that argument goes away. And I will answer you two by saying that yes, in a wind tunnel, under perfect conditions, there will always be watts saved with deep wheels. Unfortunately, nobody ever rides in those conditions and the gains that may be generated by deep wheels are not even close to being worth the expense compared to other cycling upgrades. In the case of people who don't generate much power, I would bet that's even more true......which is probably where the LBS guy was coming from. I would say he did the OP a favor rather than trying to sell her something that may potentially be a waste of money. Yeah, we can all spend our money however we want.....but I like a LBS that is realistic and not greedy.
There are A LOT of people putting out less than 150 watts.....especially smaller and inexperienced riders. You might want to browse through this thread and see what type of speed some guys are putting up at ~150 watts. HAHAHA!! Can you help me out a bit......I started backwards and went through 3 pages and haven't found anyone at 150 yet......I'm not going through all 56 pages. This is all just a variation on the myth that you must go X mph to benefit from a disc (or whatever aero item you want). And yes there are times where someone tests worse with a particular piece of gear. But that doesn't extend to the general case. LOL - I wouldn't even know what that number is. What I know is what I've seen with new/inexperienced riders. With more information it appears that the OP doesn't fit into that category....so I have no idea if it would be worth her dime or not....or if money even matters to her. In the end everybody spends what they want. I'm glad there are bike shops that won't just push deep wheels on anyone who wants them. I'll stick to what I've said so far. Deep dish wheels won't necessarily make a new rider faster. Learn to ride better first, learn to train smarter second, look for "free" speed last. There are no shortcuts. |
2015-07-17 6:05 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders LOL - I wouldn't even know what that number is. What I know is what I've seen with new/inexperienced riders. With more information it appears that the OP doesn't fit into that category....so I have no idea if it would be worth her dime or not....or if money even matters to her. In the end everybody spends what they want. I'm glad there are bike shops that won't just push deep wheels on anyone who wants them. I'll stick to what I've said so far. Deep dish wheels won't necessarily make a new rider faster. Learn to ride better first, learn to train smarter second, look for "free" speed last. There are no shortcuts. You can do all those things at the same time. But for someone not sure about buying expensive race wheels... try them out on a rental first. That's the safest bet if you're not sure about handling / speed / value for the money. |
|
2015-07-17 6:06 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Left Brain I'll stick to what I've said so far. Deep dish wheels won't necessarily make a new rider faster. Learn to ride better first, learn to train smarter second, look for "free" speed last. There are no shortcuts. All else equal, deep dish wheels WILL make a new rider faster*. The problem is that they may change how that rider rides. If they result in sitting up more often or riding tentatively due to cross winds then the gain could easily be negated. * may not be anything significant, but it will be faster. Climbing mountains (not hills, mountains) may be the exception. Here is a slippery one. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=4274557#4274557
|
2015-07-17 6:08 PM in reply to: spudone |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by spudone LOL - I wouldn't even know what that number is. What I know is what I've seen with new/inexperienced riders. With more information it appears that the OP doesn't fit into that category....so I have no idea if it would be worth her dime or not....or if money even matters to her. In the end everybody spends what they want. I'm glad there are bike shops that won't just push deep wheels on anyone who wants them. I'll stick to what I've said so far. Deep dish wheels won't necessarily make a new rider faster. Learn to ride better first, learn to train smarter second, look for "free" speed last. There are no shortcuts. You can do all those things at the same time. But for someone not sure about buying expensive race wheels... try them out on a rental first. That's the safest bet if you're not sure about handling / speed / value for the money. I won't argue that.......but look at any race.....plenty don't. And telling people that they will be faster when they buy deep dish wheels is just not right IMO. I like the bike shop guy. |
2015-07-17 6:10 PM in reply to: axteraa |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Left Brain I'll stick to what I've said so far. Deep dish wheels won't necessarily make a new rider faster. Learn to ride better first, learn to train smarter second, look for "free" speed last. There are no shortcuts. All else equal, deep dish wheels WILL make a new rider faster*. The problem is that they may change how that rider rides. If they result in sitting up more often or riding tentatively due to cross winds then the gain could easily be negated. * may not be anything significant, but it will be faster. Climbing mountains (not hills, mountains) may be the exception. Here is a slippery one. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=4274557#4274557
Ah.....so now you want to add position too.....now we're getting somewhere. |
2015-07-17 6:14 PM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Left Brain I'll stick to what I've said so far. Deep dish wheels won't necessarily make a new rider faster. Learn to ride better first, learn to train smarter second, look for "free" speed last. There are no shortcuts. All else equal, deep dish wheels WILL make a new rider faster*. The problem is that they may change how that rider rides. If they result in sitting up more often or riding tentatively due to cross winds then the gain could easily be negated. * may not be anything significant, but it will be faster. Climbing mountains (not hills, mountains) may be the exception. Here is a slippery one. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=4274557#4274557
Ah.....so now you want to add position too.....now we're getting somewhere. Deep wheels are a very small piece of the puzzle. Bang for your buck is relatively low. Edited by axteraa 2015-07-17 6:15 PM |
2015-07-17 6:20 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Left Brain Learn to ride better first, learn to train smarter second, look for "free" speed last. There are no shortcuts. I don't think anyone is arguing with that. Most people learning how to ride a bike have no desire to go faster anyway and ride the brakes way too much out of fear or simply being uncomfortable. One could argue that buying an electric bike may not make a novice rider any faster if they aren't willing to use the motor for increased speed, or that increased speed has them end up in a bush. |
|
2015-07-17 6:38 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Learn to ride better first, learn to train smarter second, look for "free" speed last. There are no shortcuts. I don't think anyone is arguing with that. Most people learning how to ride a bike have no desire to go faster anyway and ride the brakes way too much out of fear or simply being uncomfortable. One could argue that buying an electric bike may not make a novice rider any faster if they aren't willing to use the motor for increased speed, or that increased speed has them end up in a bush. Jason - follow me around some weekend and look at all of the 10-15 year old kids riding deep dish wheels......then tell me how nobody is arguing what I wrote. It's insanity......and it's the same insanity when an adult who can't ride buys them. Obviously, with more information the OP does not fall into that category. But I sure wish more bike shop folks leaned toward the guy who gave her advice. That's all. I don't want to hear about how deep dish wheels "make you faster".....that just leaves WAY too much out of the equation.....and it's the whole equation that people need to understand. |
2015-07-17 7:17 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain Learn to ride better first, learn to train smarter second, look for "free" speed last. There are no shortcuts. I don't think anyone is arguing with that. Most people learning how to ride a bike have no desire to go faster anyway and ride the brakes way too much out of fear or simply being uncomfortable. One could argue that buying an electric bike may not make a novice rider any faster if they aren't willing to use the motor for increased speed, or that increased speed has them end up in a bush. Jason - follow me around some weekend and look at all of the 10-15 year old kids riding deep dish wheels......then tell me how nobody is arguing what I wrote. It's insanity......and it's the same insanity when an adult who can't ride buys them. Obviously, with more information the OP does not fall into that category. But I sure wish more bike shop folks leaned toward the guy who gave her advice. That's all. I don't want to hear about how deep dish wheels "make you faster".....that just leaves WAY too much out of the equation.....and it's the whole equation that people need to understand. Yes, I fully agree that the whole picture needs to be considered, but I'm not sure why you are so quick to defend the LBS when you don't know if they took the whole picture in to begin with. You are throwing out examples of people who can't handle their bike, when clearly the OP can. The OP said that the LBS doesn't sell deep wheels to lighter riders. That logic by itself is false. There are tons of pro and Cat1 cyclists that are lighter than the OP who can put down more power or ride faster than anyone on this forum. Would you back up the LBS in saying they should not sell deep wheels to Nairo Quintana because he's too light? How do we know that the LBS was not making their statement to the OP based on a logical fallacy or if they were indeed taking the whole equation into consideration. It is up to the OP to decide whether or not she wants to invest in deep wheels given her situation, but I think most of the people replying are making sure she is informed of the reasons why she should/shouldn't purchase race wheels are not solely dependent on her weight. |
2015-07-17 7:26 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Quintana. Currently 3rd in the TdF. |
2015-07-17 7:29 PM in reply to: mtnbikerchk |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by mtnbikerchk Originally posted by brigby1 I've never tried them so I don't know how they handle! The only thing that makes me nervous is buying the "dash saddle" of wheels Haha. Randee, I think you're looking at a whole array instead of trying to isolate aero vs not. And think you'd be fine with at least lower profile aero rims. Don't know you'd want the 80mm ones I use in windy conditions though even though I've been fine. There is the possibility of mixing sizes too. Like 40 front and 60 rear. The front is the one that affects handle, and by a considerable margin. Could still stay with the basics if that still makes you nervous, or if mixing sizes will mess with the appearance too much! That someone from last time will take the blame for this too! The borrowing or renting suggestion is not a bad idea either. |
2015-07-17 8:08 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders bwaaaahahahahah!! You guys crack me up. Let's not use elite triathletes as an example of anything for AG'ers... but let's use TdF riders as an example of what is true for the rest of us in cycling. Got it.
|
|
2015-07-17 8:32 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Left Brain bwaaaahahahahah!! You guys crack me up. Let's not use elite triathletes as an example of anything for AG'ers... but let's use TdF riders as an example of what is true for the rest of us in cycling. Got it.
And by the same token, lets assume anyone who is light doesn't know how to ride their bike. |
2015-07-17 8:49 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by Left Brain bwaaaahahahahah!! You guys crack me up. Let's not use elite triathletes as an example of anything for AG'ers... but let's use TdF riders as an example of what is true for the rest of us in cycling. Got it.
And by the same token, lets assume anyone who is light doesn't know how to ride their bike. Yeah, let's put all these kids on an 808 with a super 9. That's exactly what was said. |
2015-07-17 10:23 PM in reply to: mtnbikerchk |
Master 2912 ...at home in The ATL | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Why are all of you guys talking about wheels as if they are a slice of Chicago-style pizza? |
2015-07-17 10:32 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders I don't know crap about race wheels, or really much about bikes for that matter, but don't most of the smaller women pros have race wheels on their bikes? OP (and I) may be "light" but so are Rinny and Rachel Joyce, for example. I'm pretty sure we both outweigh them, and that they know how to ride their bikes. I'll have to admit I pay a lot more attention to Rinny's running in Kona than what wheels she's running on her bike, but what does she use? Are there times when she wouldn't use them due to issues like control due to her size and wind conditions? FWIW I've also asked several coaches/LBS/ bike geeks about race wheels, including a local high-end wheelmaker, and gotten answers ranging from "Would make you faster, but a big investment and you probably want to look at the bike and aero helmet first" to "You might not want to use them in some conditions as there can be control issues for lighter riders." |
2015-07-17 11:42 PM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders Originally posted by Hot Runner I don't know crap about race wheels, or really much about bikes for that matter, but don't most of the smaller women pros have race wheels on their bikes? OP (and I) may be "light" but so are Rinny and Rachel Joyce, for example. I'm pretty sure we both outweigh them, and that they know how to ride their bikes. I'll have to admit I pay a lot more attention to Rinny's running in Kona than what wheels she's running on her bike, but what does she use? Are there times when she wouldn't use them due to issues like control due to her size and wind conditions? FWIW I've also asked several coaches/LBS/ bike geeks about race wheels, including a local high-end wheelmaker, and gotten answers ranging from "Would make you faster, but a big investment and you probably want to look at the bike and aero helmet first" to "You might not want to use them in some conditions as there can be control issues for lighter riders." Rinny's bike from last year. A 404 and an 808, so a 58mm up front and about 80 mm in the rear. Rinny is small, but also powerfully built. Badmann has a more slight build and has used various deep wheels too. Many pro women aren't going to be much (if any) heavier than the 128. Even the taller Leanda Cave could be close to that. One should never use something simply because a pro uses it, be it a training method or equipment choice or other such things. That's the argument often used for pushing some training practices, but it's always prudent to check for the individuals situation to see how well it actually fits. In the case of the equipment selection here the original statement was quite different. It was for people of a type to not use something at all as opposed to everyone should be using it. The use of the higher level riders was only to show that it could very well be done, however, that same prudence should be used here as well in seeing if that choice will work well for another individual. Is their skill level still sufficient to handle things in the more adverse conditions? Maybe. Maybe not. Many triathletes probably are better off not using an 80 mm front wheel like I do. I'm somewhat bigger, have more cycling experience and am more willing to push that. I might not go quite that deep if I was expecting to face Kona force winds either though. But there are multiple steps down from that between basic box rims and the deepest sections to be considered as well. |
|
2015-07-18 3:27 AM in reply to: mtnbikerchk |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders My wife is a bit lighter than you and rides a Zipp 808 with a Zipp 900 disc even in gusty conditions. No problem what so ever. But she's a very strong rider and excellent bike handler, so that definitely helps. Zip 606 is a good compromise. |
|
Aero helmet v. aero wheels Pages: 1 2 | |||
Aero Helmet vs. Aero Wheels Pages: 1 2 |
| ||||
|
| |||
|
| |||
|